Guns more than gangs are fueling violence in Seattle, police say

[SecularMotion]

Seattle police officials Tuesday said the outbreak of violence through Memorial Day weekend and since the beginning of the year has more to do with guns than with gangs.

Deputy Police Chief Nick Metz and Assistant Chief for Operations Paul McDonagh said that, while gang activity has played a role in the jump in homicides this year — 15 to date compared with 21 in all of 2011 — the common denominator is the use of firearms.

"A person who has a gun is more likely to use a gun," Metz said after the weekly council briefing.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018310111_policebriefing30m.html

[ileus]

1. We all know guns kill people.

[Common Sense Party]

7. My gun went out and shot three people last week.

Only two died.

[ileus]

13. did you let it back in the house?

I'd have made it sleep outside a few nights a punishment.

[Common Sense Party]

16. Only after it wiped its feet and bought me some roses.

[Hoyt]

19. Maybe not. But the guns the gun culture help put on the streets, did just that.

And if the gun culture have their way, 100 million more guns will be in circulation over the next decade.

[Common Sense Party]

26. "Maybe" not? No, Sparky. Definitely not.

My guns are not in circulation, my guns are not "polluting" society, and my guns aren't shooting anyone, despite all your handwringing and hyperventilating.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

14. Sometimes I let my gun out at night to go to the bathroom and it comes back with rounds missing.

I can't imagine why little Glocky would come back with rounds missing from the clip.
I don't see any of the missing rounds in the yard and for the life of me can't imagine where they are going.

I guess my little Glock is finally going out and shooting things on his own. They grow up so fast...

[Callisto32]

2. I learned something today....

Para-animism + Tautology = Funny

[slackmaster]

3. Things were so much more peaceful in Seattle before last year when guns were invented

[TBMASE]

6. That made me chuckle

[pipoman]

4. Noooo...say it isn't so!!1!

"A person who has a gun is more likely(than a person who doesn't have one) to use a gun,"

[DonP]

5. Let me tell you what happens next ...

Last edited Thu May 31, 2012, 03:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Since Chicago has gone through the same thing for the last 30 years, we already know what happens when police blame inanimate objects for the violence, rather than the real sources of the crimes.

Another bunch of stupid, short sighted politicians desperately trying to find a designated scapegoat before the next election.

You see guns don't vote ... but neighborhoods do, so they will have regular tirades (Daley style) against the evils of guns and the evil gun manufacturers, and never mention that the problem is gang against gang violence or that guns don't really crawl out of sock drawers and shoot up streets by themselves..

Working with local churches they will arrange high profile "take back the night" and "save our children" parades which, for some odd reason, always take place during the day when cameras can film them and just in time for the evening news cycle .

They will host 1 or 2 gun "buy backs" and focus on a strangely pristine high end gun like a 1st generation Colt SAA that they'll claim they "took off the streets". It will not be unusual to see the same gun several years in a row. You will read claims of how very many guns were taken off the street but will never see any real inventory reports.

What they will not do is put any pressure on the ministers, parents or families in the neighborhoods the gangs come from to turn in gang members, even if they are family, or tell them where gang guns are hidden or who is holding the guns now. No one will tell the police anything.

Just once I'd like to see a mayor with the courage to look these ministers and community leaders in the eye and say, "These criminals are known to you. They may be your own family members or neighbors. Until you are ready to tell the authorities who they are and where they hide these guns, you will continue to lose innocents to these gangs."

If caught and arrested they will also not actually prosecute gang members for any gun violations on any laws they pass since that is always the first charge they plea bargain away.

Then just like Chicago, they will try and pass more restrictions on the law abiding and be surprised when crime is unaffected and shocked when they get their ass handed to them in court again and again. Eventually the people realize they are being conned and demand some real change in their leadership and tougher crime prosecutions.

[Meiko]

9. Well said

and true. It is going to be interesting to see how closely the actual fix they come up with parallels your post. My guess is that it will be very close. All these big city mayors seem to be working from the same "hate guns" agenda they have used for years. It does nothing to fix the problem but it sure does buy a lot of votes, meanwhile the killing continues. You know, it wouldn't bother me if the gang members were just killing each other, thinning the herd is a good thing. The problem is that gang bangers are notoriously bad shots and innocent civilians are being caught in the crossfire and we can't have that.

Gangs represent violence in it's most brutal form. They are drug dealers and indiscriminate killers, they should not be allowed to walk the streets. The police leadership needs to adopt a zero tolerance plan when dealing with gang members. These gang bangers need to be rounded up, identified and arrested if appropriate. The cops need to quit crying about the guns and get out on the streets and deal with this problem.

[ManiacJoe]

8. Poor choice of headline by the Times.

Yes, it grabs your attention. But after reading the article, you see the disconnect.

[Clames]

10. Must be the guns...

Mine was in it's case when a repairman came to check out the water heater. I'm pretty sure it growled at him when he walked by closet it is stored in. I think it tried to open the door but lacking thumbs all it did was rattle the knob. I'll have to invest in another lock box that is proofed against sentient semi-auto pistols.

[Hoyt]

20. Guns do enable violence like this. Stawicki probably wouldn't have killed one person without a gun.

Much less five innocents. Zimmerman wouldn't have killed. Loughner might have knifed one person, but not nine.

Yet gun culture continues to support THEIR right to more and more guns right now, no matter how many are killed in the long-run.

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. So, how many spree killings have *you* prevented with your telepsychology skills?

I'll go with "no more and no less than the number of Colt 1911 handguns you've field stripped and reassembled underwater"...

[Hoyt]

25. How many have you and the gun culture enabled with your love and promotion of more guns?

[friendly_iconoclast]

28. Not a one, as a belief in animism is superstition.

I realize that the subset of those living with Anslinger-Wertham Syndrome who focus on guns believe that inanimate objects compel
their own misuse, but that's right up there with blaming tableware for obesity....

[Hoyt]

31. You are wrong. Gun manufacturers and lobby organizations would not exist w/o you guys.

[SGMRTDARMY]

39. Wouldn't exist w/o you guys?

are you floating in the clouds somewhere? What about police forces, militaries, security firms, govt. security forces?
Do you ever think before you post?
Manufacturers will always exist and so will lobbies.

[Glassunion]

11. A person with a toothbrush is more likely to brush their teeth.

[Hoyt]

21. True, and a person with a gun is more likely to shoot someone. Brushing teeth is good.

[Common Sense Party]

27. And a person with a pecker is more likely to rape someone.

Let's outlaw all peckers! Down with the pecker culture!

[Hoyt]

32. I do not advocate restricting your pecker. Your gun addiction, I do.

[Common Sense Party]

33. I'm not sure why you're not bothered by both guns AND peckers. Don't you care about rape victims?

Let's be consistent.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. Despite the fact that there are nearly 2X more guns than peckers in this country...

Sexual assault outpaces gun deaths... by ALOT.
Even including suicides, gun deaths amount to smoething like 30,000 or so per year.
There is an average of 207,754 victims (age 12 or older) of sexual assault each year. - data from RAINN.org

Even if just 15% of those 207k sexual assault incidents involve a pecker (although, likely it's much more), pecker-related sexual assault and rape would still numerically surpass gun deaths.

Hoyt, why do you hate rape victims?

[MicaelS]

12. It's much easier to blame guns

Than to admit your department is incompetent when dealing with gangs.

[Hoyt]

22. Stawicki wasn't in a gang -- just another "law-abiding," permit holder, gun worshiper.

[friendly_iconoclast]

29. Just like this guy was "law-abiding":

http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2012/05/30/news/11563016.txt

See what your insistence on easy access to computers has helped enable? Maybe you should give up your Dell/Asus/Apple/HP, before you snap and start doing something like that.

After all, it's for the children's safety...

[Hoyt]

30. We are talking people who are obsessed - in a relationship - with guns.

[friendly_iconoclast]

36. I understand your reluctance to acknowledege that computers pollute society.

You've swallowed the EFF "freedom" talking points hook, line, and sinker. Try spending a a week without strapping on your keyboard-
you'll feel a lot better afterwards.

(Writing the above was easy, as it should have been- I cribbed most of it from you, substituting 'computers' for 'guns' and
'EFF' for 'NRA'. How's the dish you've been serving for years taste, now that you're the diner?)

[rrneck]

15. Wrong.

It's the shoes. They had to walk over there.Then run away.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

17. "A person who has a gun is more likely to use a gun,"

I'm hoping this quote is just the Deputy Chief's common sense talking and not the result of some government funded study.

Not that this information is in any way inaccurate but I swear it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the government was providing ongoing funding to discover how long it takes for two same sex rats to produce offspring.

[-..__...]

18. Yet...

SPD has a "gang unit", but they don't have one that targets illegal firearms.

I believe the SPD brass is either in denial about the root of the problem, or covering their asses (if they admit that gangs are the problem, and they have a "gang unit", then why is the thug problem getting worse instead of better?).

Seattle gang map...

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=200807321660978094818.00048401732d509c5523e

I count 24 individual gangs... twenty-fucking-four, and these departmental shills/blowhards expect us to believe that all of a sudden, firearms are responsible for the rise in violent crime?

Who the fuck do they think they're kidding?

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. Let's apply that 'logic' to other crimes:

"Your Honor, I am not responsible for stealing that laptop- my crowbar made me pry open a window and go inside"

"Your Honor, I am not responsible for driving 120 MPH in a 55 zone- the Ford made me do it..."

[ileus]

34. Leave the gangs alone....lets focus on objects.

[Atypical Liberal]

37. "A person who has a gun is more likely to use a gun"

"A person who has a gun is more likely to use a gun"

Well, no shit! Really? Wow, a person with a gun is more likely to use a gun than someone who physically cannot use one??

This is like saying a person with eyes is more likely to see than a person with no eyes.

The real question is, of the people with guns, who is more likely to use it for criminal activity?

The insinuation here is that everyone and anyone with a gun is equally likely to use it for criminal activity, and that is simply bullshit.

They need to be asking themselves, who are the people using these guns to commit crimes, and how are they different from the 97%+ of firearm owners who never commit crimes with their firearms!

What is it about these 3% of firearm owners that makes them likely to commit crimes with their firearms?

How about prior criminal history?

How about gang affiliation?

How about illegal drug affiliation?

Nah. Lets just make it about gun ownership. Makes much more sense to lump the law-abiding 97% in with the 3% who use them to commit crimes.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

38. uhm, more likely? duh. also: A person who has a tire iron is more likely to use a tire iron.

what a completely non-statement statement.