Who Owns All the Guns and Why They Need to be Controlled
We often hear there are 80 or 100 million gun owners in the United States. Some estimates say there are as many individual guns as there are people. Naturally, all these guns and all these gun owners do not fit into one single group. So, to simplify matters here's what I've come up with.
First we divide the group called "gun owners" into two smaller groups. Let's call them the "good guys" and the "bad guys." Immediately our first problem arises. How do we qualify them? A generally accepted rule of measurement is, since we all believe in the presumption of innocence, felony convictions. Anyone with a felony conviction who owns a gun is one of the "bad guys." Let's throw in those convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence and those who've been adjudicated mentally ill. I realize the definition of that last one needs some fine tuning, but for argument's sake, let's say those are the folks who make up the group called "bad guys."
Everybody else who owns a gun is in the other group. They're all "good guys." Do you see the problem already? They include all the folks with clean records who buy guns for criminals and gun traffickers. They're called straw purchasers. Some do an occasional deal to make a couple bucks on the side; others are professionals and in many states they can safely buy ten or twenty guns at a time with no questions asked. Until they're caught, they belong to the group called "good guys."
Also in that group are many criminals and gang members who've yet to experience their first arrest and conviction. As they do, they slide from the one group to the other, but at any given time the group called "good guys" contains many of them. That's the price we pay for that extremely important presumption of innocence.
The straw purchasers and criminals who somehow have maintained a clean record are what I call "hidden criminals." No one knows what percentage of the "good guys" is made up of "hidden criminals."
Additionally there are all the types I outlined in The Famous 10%, the bad drinkers, those who abuse prescription medication, the rageaholics, etc. All these and more belong to the "good guys."
The final type of gun owner who makes up the "good guy" group is the responsible one. He not only has a clean record but is intelligent enough and sober enough and safety conscious enough to pose no threat to anyone. He is the responsible one. Guns in the home are properly stored. He trains regularly. He keeps on top of the laws so as to be always in compliance. With him, safety comes first, always.
The problem is that he is in the minority. The group called "good guys" is too heavily populated with hidden criminals and 10%ers. The solution is simple, in a phrase, gun control laws.
The gun-rights crowd is wont to clamor that we have so many laws already on the books, adding to them won't help. That's nonsense. What we have on the books is a mish-mash of easily circumvented laws. What we need is a federally issued set of simple but comprehensive gun control laws. Straw purchasing could be eliminated, theft could be greatly diminished and many of the unfit characters, the "hidden criminals" could be identified and disarmed.
The most amazing thing is the responsible gun owners among the "good guys" fight tooth and nail against any additional regulations. Taking their marching orders from the NRA and the gun manufacturers, they refuse to budge on any of the most common-sense issues raised by the gun control folks.
I'm optimistic that eventually reason will prevail. As tragedy after tragedy is daily reported in the main stream, rather than becoming inured and desensitized, people will begin to see that gun availability to unfit people is something we can and must address.
What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
(cross posted at Mikeb302000)
= new reply since forum marked as read
"others are professionals and in many states they can safely buy ten or twenty guns at a time with no questions asked. Until they're caught, they belong to the group called "good guys."
My apologies, I Never thought in a million years you'd post about fast and furious. I stand corrected.
"The most amazing thing is the responsible gun owners among the "good guys" fight tooth and nail against any additional regulations. Taking their marching orders from the NRA and the gun manufacturers, they refuse to budge on any of the most common-sense issues raised by the gun control folks."
No, thats actually the second most amazing thing. The MOST amazing thing, is that people - such as yourself - are either pretending, have forgotten, or are ignorant of the history of the gun control movement, and its loud proponents:
"In fact, the assault weapons ban will have no significant effect either on the crime rate or on personal security. Nonetheless, it is a good idea . . . . Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation." Charles Krauthammer
We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest. . . . e'll have to start working again to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen the next law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. . . . The first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get handguns registered. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition-except for the military, police, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors-totally illegal.
Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc. which is now the brady campaign
"Brady Bill is "the minimum step" that Congress should take to control handguns. "We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases,"
Rep. William L. Clay D-St. Louis, Mo
I think you have to do it a step at a time and I think that is what the NRA is most concerned about, is that it will happen one very small step at a time, so that by the time people have "woken up" to what's happened, it's gone farther than what they feel the consensus of American citizens would be. But it does have to go one step at a time and the beginning of the banning of semi-assault military weapons, that are military weapons, not "household" weapons, is the first step."
Stockton, California Mayor Barbara Fass
"I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . . It is time to act. We cannot go on like this. Ban them!"
Sen. John H. Chafee R.-R.I., In View of Handguns' Effects, There's Only One Answer: A Ban, Minneapolis Star Tribune, June 15, 1992
""My staff and I right now are working on a comprehensive gun-control bill. We don't have all the details, but for instance, regulating the sale and purchase of bullets. Ultimately, I would like to see the manufacture and possession of handguns banned except for military and police use. But that's the endgame. And in the meantime, there are some specific things that we can do with legislation."
Bobby Rush; Democrat, U.S. House of Representatives, Chicago Tribune, Dec. 5, 1999
"Mr. Speaker, my bill prohibits the importation, exportation, manufacture, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of handguns and handgun ammunition. It establishes a 6-month grace period for the turning in of handguns. It provides many exceptions for gun clubs, hunting clubs, gun collectors, and other people of that kind."
Rep. Major Owens (D-Brooklyn, N.Y.), 139 Cong. Rec. H9088 at H9094, Nov. 10, 1993
"I would like to dispute that. Truthfully. I know it's an amendment. I know it's in the Constitution. But you know what? Enough! I would like to say, I think there should be a law -- and I know this is extreme -- that no one can have a gun in the U.S. If you have a gun, you go to jail. Only the police should have guns."
Rosie Takes on the NRA, Ottawa Sun, April 29, 1999
"A gun-control movement worthy of the name would insist that President Clinton move beyond his proposals for controls -- such as expanding background checks at gun shows and stopping the import of high-capacity magazines -- and immediately call on Congress to pass far-reaching industry regulation like the Firearms Safety and Consumer Protection Act introduced by Senator Robert Torricelli, Democrat of New Jersey, and Representative Patrick Kennedy, Democrat of Rhode Island. Their measure would give the Treasury Department health and safety authority over the gun industry, and any rational regulator with that authority would ban handguns."
Josh Sugarmann (executive director of the Violence Policy Center, Dispense With the Half Steps and Ban Killing Machines, Houston Chronicle, Nov. 5, 1999
"We will never fully solve our nation's horrific problem of gun violence unless we ban the manufacture and sale of handguns and semiautomatic assault weapons."
Jeff Muchnick, Legislative Director, Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Better Yet, Ban All Handguns, USA Today, Dec. 29, 1993
"The goal of CSGV is the orderly elimination of the private sale of handguns and assault weapons in the United States."
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, http://www.csgv.org/content/coalition/coal_intro.html (visited June 20, 2000) (boldface added) ("The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence is composed of 44 civic, professional and religious organizations and 120,000 individual members that advocate for a ban on the sale and possession of handguns and assault weapons."
"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal." U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno, December 1993
"We're bending the law as far as we can to ban an entirely new class of guns." Rahm Emmanuel
"We're going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat guns into submission!" Charles Schumer
"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe." Diane Feinstein
"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns." Howard Metzenbaum
"I am one who believes that as a first step the U.S. should move expeditiously to disarm the civilian population, other than police and security officers, of all handguns, pistols and revolvers ...no one should have a right to anonymous ownership or use of a gun." Dean Morris
"I do not believe in people owning guns. Guns should be owned only by the police and military. I am going to do everything I can to disarm this state." Michael Dukakis
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them...'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it." Diane Feinstein
"No, we're not looking at how to control criminals ... we're talking about banning the AK-47 and semi-automatic guns." --U.S. Senator Howard Metzenbaum
"What good does it do to ban some guns? All guns should be banned." U.S. Senator Howard Metzanbaum, Democrat from Ohio
"Until we can ban all of them , then we might as well ban none." U.S. Senator Howard Metzenbaum, Senate Hearings 1993
"I'm not interested in getting a bill that deals with airport security... all I want to do is get at plastic guns." -U.S. Senator Howard Metzenbaum, 1993
"Nobody should be owning a gun which does not have a sporting purpose." Janet Reno
"We have to start with a ban on the manufacturing and import of handguns. From there we register the guns which are currently owned, and follow that with additional bans and acquisitions of handguns and rifles with no sporting purpose." Major Owens
"If it were up to me we'd ban them all." Mel Reynolds CNN's Crossfire, December 9, 1993
But we - the pro gun people - are just supposed to forget about all that right? And if we don't, were "Taking our marching orders from the NRA and the gun manufacturers", right?
Maybe if you were to disntance yourself from the intentions some of those expressed above, you might be able to get somewhere.
The thing is, though, you use the very same talking points, engage the very same methodology, and employ the very same false characterizations, as the self admitted prohibitionists.
And admissions such as this don't help your cause, sparky:
You know where you'd take it, and WE know where you'd take it.
With that in mind, it kind of makes " Taking their marching orders from the NRA and the gun manufacturers" ring a bit hollow.
...that another poster already mentioned something about prior restraint.
...straw buyers, 10%ers.... These are all your OPINION. My opinion is that there is no meat in this opinion sandwich and there is no originator participation in this thread.
Fact 1 - Federal laws on firearm sales which don't deal with interstate commerce must be aimed at having individual states pass and enforce state laws. Those federal measures can only be enforced through a system of penalties and rewards like the NICS and related laws. (10th amendment, US Bill of Rights = "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
Fact 2 - Some states already have laws that mandate private sales be accomplished via delivery through an FFL with an NICS check. Most state (and I believe federal) laws restrict private sales to citizens of the same state.
As others have pointed out, what measures do you propose to solve the issues you highlight? Until that is answered, you are just another chicken little.
