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Wed Dec 28, 2016, 11:53 AM

Gun Homicide Rates Up 31 Percent Since Stand Your Ground (FL)

I would like to tie this OP to this LBN topic

Florida’s gun deaths have gone up 31 percent since Stand Your Ground has been on the books. An international research team published the findings in http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582988

http://health.wusf.usf.edu/post/gun-homicide-rates-31-percent-stand-your-ground

12 replies, 2308 views

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply Gun Homicide Rates Up 31 Percent Since Stand Your Ground (FL) (Original post)
HAB911 Dec 2016 OP
sarisataka Dec 2016 #1
HAB911 Dec 2016 #2
sarisataka Dec 2016 #3
HAB911 Dec 2016 #4
Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #9
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2016 #5
gejohnston Dec 2016 #6
Kang Colby Dec 2016 #12
jmg257 Dec 2016 #7
Eleanors38 Dec 2016 #10
ileus Dec 2016 #8
Kang Colby Dec 2016 #11

Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:28 PM

1. Do you have another link

To the report? The link to jama gives an error.

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Response to sarisataka (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:32 PM

2. Just had it up, now giving me the same error

we may have killed it, lol

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 12:37 PM

3. That would be ironic nt

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Response to HAB911 (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:10 PM

9. Are the data on FL's homicide rate drawn from FBI-calculated or other government agency sources?

 

I was unaware that FL had a huge spike in homicides for any reason. It would appear from the article that FL's SYG law differs little from CAL's "no duty to retreat" laws. Has CA had a similar spike in homicides?

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Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:09 PM

5. And in "related" news...



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Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 01:16 PM

6. My question is why wasn't this

study submitted to criminology publication for peer review and publication? My first instinct is to assume it is "advocacy research" and would be laughed out. That is the problem with most if not all of these public health type studies. That is also why the CDC got hassled a couple of decades ago.
Here is a question, does that mean murders are also up? How many are valid self defense? To put it bluntly, some rapist getting killed by his would be victim is a homicide, but it isn't a crime nor should it be. While it is what a St. Augustine called a "sad necessity", it would be neither illegal nor immoral.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:04 PM

12. See post 11.

This is a fake study.

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Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 02:00 PM

7. Strange - homicides up, even non-gun homicides(???), but most crime rates down...

Burglary, aggravated assault, rape, robbery, Violent Crime, larceny, vehicle theft are all down.
Murder rates seem pretty consistent.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

Weird they say it has resulted in "far more harm" despite this, and without saying whether the homicides are justified or not. And why non-gun killings increased as well.


Interesting stats:
"The number of gun deaths in Florida is up across the board, but the increases are highest among whites aged 20 to 34."

"Importantly, the monthly homicide rate among African-Americans increased 32 percent, from 36 deaths each month to 48."
I wonder how that compares with Chicago.

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Response to jmg257 (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:41 PM

10. "homicides are justified or not" may be the key to this wizz-bang data. The 55 yr data track...

 

you present can't sustain the JAMA finding unless someone has been hot-wiring the circuit breaker box. Over the years I have grown to appreciate how some researchers have little regard for the differences in motivations for homicide.

Speculation: Perhaps there IS a relationship between the increase in concealed-carry (FL is numero uno in this regard) and the way hoodlums meet the Great Recycler; i.e., they are dying for their violent crime instead of being warehoused by the legal system. Some die by self-defense measure, some don't die but are imprisoned. The SD deaths by most reckoning are NOT homicides and don't show up in standard crime data. But these researchers may have broken off these SD deaths and filed them under "homicides.' Even so, the increase they contend flows from SYG laws still sees too high.

Further speculation: The researchers may see the above phenomenon and wish to stigmatize SD in anticipation of future measureable data showing an armed citizenry as having some kind of impact on crime. I am not convinced that an armed citizenry has a positive impact on social problems, but I am open to the question.

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Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 05:07 PM

8. The whole 31% increase is SYG justified shootings?

Last edited Wed Dec 28, 2016, 07:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Is the 31% increase in Justified shootings?

If so what's the problem?

If not it's not even related to SYG.


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Response to HAB911 (Original post)

Wed Dec 28, 2016, 10:02 PM

11. Fake study.

This garbage illustrates why we must vehemently oppose public dollars being spent on fake studies that lack academic credibility.

Florida Murder Rates per 100k via FBI UCR
2004: 5.4
2015: 5.1

SYG was enacted in Florida in 2005, and since passage murder rates have dropped by ~5.5%.

Now how did the researchers screw this up so bad? Ugh oh...

After accounting for underlying trends, these results estimate that after the law took effect there was an abrupt and sustained increase in the monthly homicide rate...

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2582988


"Accounting for underlying trends" is code for tossing out data that conflicted with their thesis. Folks, the "scholars" just made this stuff up. Murder rates in Florida fell after SYG, yet somehow these con artists conclude that homicide is up? Please.

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