Another concealed weapon permit holder becomes a murderer

[MichaelHarris]

"Flemming died of a single gunshot wound to the face fired from a handgun as he stood next to Zale’s pickup....Zale had a permit to carry a handgun." http://www.freep.com/article/20140904/NEWS05/309040151/

[NYC_SKP]

1. Road Rage? Charged with murder, held without bail...

Needs to be behind bars for a LONG time.

On Thursday, the Livingston County prosecutor announced that Martin E. Zale, 69, of Marion Township, had been charged with murder, saying the case was not about self-defense nor the right to possess a gun.

Zale, who was ordered held without bond pending a preliminary examination next week, also is charged with two counts of felony firearm and discharge of a weapon from a motor vehicle.

Police and witnesses say Flemming was shot to death Tuesday afternoon when he approached Zale’s pickup at a traffic light after Zale cut off Flemming’s SUV on Grand River Avenue in Genoa Township, just east of Howell.

Amy Flemming told police the truck had been speeding and nearly struck their Ford Escape as it came wheeling off a side road.

[Sopkoviak]

2. A CC permit is like passing a drivers license test

Just because you've read the manual, taken the classes, passed the test and supposedly understand not to drive while impaired doesn't mean that everyday some MORON with a valid license doesn't crawl behind the wheel with a 2.39 BAC and kill someone.

Or would you condemn every licensed driver for the actions of an occasional idiot.

Well, would ya?

[Kalidurga]

3. That kind of arguement makes me want to go back to strict gun control with the goal of banning

and making getting a drivers licence a lot harder in fact maybe we should make getting a car harder to and raise gas prices. Because it isn't just an occasional idiot on the road there are lots and lots of them. The number one idiotic thing people do is drive while exhausted.

[dballance]

4. I'm trying to grasp your point. But not really getting it.

People have long made the analogy of licensing persons to drive cars to licensing persons to have guns. There is quite a huge difference between the two. Cars are made for transportation. Yes, they do often get into accidents due to impaired or careless drivers. Their primary purpose is transportation though.

Guns are made to kill. That is their primary function - to kill or maim. Cars, when used properly, do not kill people or animals. Guns, when used properly kill or wound people or animals. That is the purpose for which they are made. And don't give me the BS about competitive target shooting. No one with a brain buys that.

So in answer to your question "would you condemn every licensed driver for the actions of an occasional idiot" I'd say no.

Would I place stricter laws on who can own and use a tool which has the primary purpose of killing or maiming? Yes, I would. Those occasional idiots who use guns improperly like Adam Lanza, James Holmes, and Seung-Hui Cho should not have such easy access to tools that are made, primarily, to kill.

[shedevil69taz]

6. My personal firearms

Have been operated correctly thousands of times and never come close to killing anyone. The one I carry on behalf of my employer though...lets just say the ones I fired at were firing at me at the same time...they stopped firing, and I'm still here. Not absolutely sure if my rounds killed them or they successfully escaped...urban warfare is complicated to say the least.

[Eleanors38]

7. What laws would you suggest to prevent "occasional idiots"

from getting guns? I support safe storage and UBC.

[NYC_SKP]

11. None of us want to pass out guns to Adam Lanza, James Holmes, and Seung-Hui Cho types.

.

In fact, quite the opposite. Where possible, we want zero tolerance on possession for felons, stricter penalties for violent offenders, truth in sentencing guidelines, and more.

Most support UBCs and required safety training.

We have more in common with moderate gun control supporters than not.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

12. Hear! Hear! nt

[Straw Man]

14. BS?

And don't give me the BS about competitive target shooting. No one with a brain buys that.

What BS? Are you saying that competitive target shooting doesn't exist? Or that it isn't the "purpose for which they {guns} are made"? I ask because this ...



... and this ...



... would make very poor tools for killing or wounding a person or an animal. They're just not designed for it, you see. They're designed for maximum accuracy in a context where lethality and rate of fire are of no importance.

Yes, the origin of firearms was for killing -- of game animals and humans. The former is one of the ways we climbed to the top of the food chain. The latter is morally neutral, depending on context. Certainly there are situations where lethal force is necessary to protect individuals and society. Furthermore, firearms can be successfully used in a defensive context without firing a shot.

[Starboard Tack]

13. Interesting point you make.

Getting a driver's license in the US is as much of a joke as getting a CHL permit. Most civilized countries now require a medical certificate confirming physical and mental competence to drive.

[ileus]

5. Meanwhile here's another one that hasn't harmed a fly with his EDC.

[Eleanors38]

8. "Another." There's no line winding 'round the block.

Perhaps you have some data on this?

[Duckhunter935]

9. yes assume there are

there must be hundreds of thousands per year if you word it like that.

Yes it happens but extremely rare so some want to hype it.

Dog bites man not news but man bites dog is big news.

[NYC_SKP]

10. "Another old white dude with tiny penis"... At least the OP didn't take it there...

.

Needless to say, the CC is incidental to the shooting by a Road Rage jackass.

Said jackass would probably have had a weapon with or without the CC permit.