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Thu Feb 6, 2014, 12:05 AM

Scientists have likely found Charlemagne's skeleton



http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/02/05/newser-scientists-charlemagne-skeleton/5223971/


The German researchers say the 94 bones and bone fragments are from a tall, thin, older man, and their dimensions match descriptions of Charlemagne, who was unusually tall for the period at 6 feet, but also thin. (PhysOrg notes another oddity: His father, Pepin the Short, measured only about five feet.) The researchers also found evidence of injury to the kneecap and heel bones, which is consistent with claims that Charlemagne walked with a limp in his later years.

Researchers first secretly opened what was said to be the emperor's sarcophagus in 1988; he died in 814.

Most of the bones were found in his tomb, with some found in a bust depicting him and one found in a ceremonial container used to hold remains. As for the rest of his bones, they were likely given away as relics.

"Thanks to the results from 1988 up until today, we can say with great likelihood that we are dealing with the skeleton of Charlemagne," says one of the scientists. What they didn't determine: any new details about his health or cause of death.







USA NOW



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Reply Scientists have likely found Charlemagne's skeleton (Original post)
Rowdyboy Feb 2014 OP
BootinUp Feb 2014 #1
CaliforniaPeggy Feb 2014 #2
Zen Democrat Feb 2014 #3
Rowdyboy Feb 2014 #4
Sherman A1 Feb 2014 #10
unc70 Feb 2014 #11
silvershadow Feb 2014 #12
GeoWilliam750 Feb 2014 #21
HereSince1628 Feb 2014 #5
Rowdyboy Feb 2014 #7
HereSince1628 Feb 2014 #8
tclambert Feb 2014 #6
AnneD Feb 2014 #13
tclambert Feb 2014 #16
thucythucy Feb 2014 #19
Rowdyboy Feb 2014 #20
thucythucy Feb 2014 #22
BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #15
Sweeney Dec 2014 #24
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2014 #27
thucythucy Mar 2018 #29
packman Feb 2014 #9
lunasun Feb 2014 #17
packman Feb 2014 #18
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #23
Sweeney Dec 2014 #25
Lawlbringer Feb 2014 #14
Sweeney Dec 2014 #26
Name removed Dec 2016 #28

Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 12:08 AM

1. History is so cool. nt

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Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 12:11 AM

2. Excellent news, my dear Rowdyboy!

Thank you for bringing it to us.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 01:40 PM

3. Grandpa, they found you!

I think about half the human race is directly descended from Charlemagne.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 02:13 PM

4. Including a friend of mine I'll see tomorrow....

Can't wait to give him a hard time about it...

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 08:51 PM

10. Yup,

My 39th Great Grandfather.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

11. Think you are correct

Most everyone I know has him in their line. I've got him multiple ways!

BTE My brother looks a lot like all the pictures of Charlemagne.

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 7, 2014, 06:27 AM

12. I would say so. I believe I am. nt

 

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Response to Zen Democrat (Reply #3)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 09:06 PM

21. Certainly everyone with any Caucasian blood probably is

Then again, on average, at 1,200 years in the past, the average individual living today is likely to have had on the order of a trillion ancestors (can make an argument for somewhat more). There may be a few duplicates amongst those trillion.

We are all far more closely related than one might imagine.

Then again, as the saying goes, you can choose your friends.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 03:18 PM

5. So, at least part of Charlemagne was buried in Charlemagne's tomb

What is/was the story of why there was doubt?

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 04:50 PM

7. Here's the only explanation I can find.....

http://in.news.yahoo.com/1200-old-bones-father-europe-charlemagne-unearthed-germany-055630570.html

Frank Ruhli, Head of the Center for Evolutionary Medicine at the University of Zurich in Switzerland, said that it might appear as an obvious conclusion but it isn't, as Charlemagne was exhumed and reburied many times with parts of his body given away as relics, so identifying his skeleton is not an easy task, Discovery News reported.

Ruhli, who announced the results of the study last week, 1,200 years after Charlemagne's death, said the bones appear to belong to a single individual, an old and rather tall man. This matches contemporary descriptions of Charlemagne.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #7)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 05:01 PM

8. Thanks.

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Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 04:05 PM

6. Charles the Magnificent. Now there's a nickname to envy.

As opposed to, say, the magician at the Renaissance Fair who goes by Zoltan the Adequate (Latin: Zoltanus Adaequatus).

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Response to tclambert (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 7, 2014, 11:02 AM

13. I had a flash back....

to Monty Python's Life of Brian. All the Roman soldiers that slept with women in Jerusalem told the women their names were Naughtius Maximus or Biggus Dickus.

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Response to AnneD (Reply #13)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 12:45 AM

16. I kept thinking of that, too.

And Michael Palin (Pilate) insisted he had a friend in Rome whose name really was Biggus Dickus. And he had a wife, Incontinentia Buttocks.

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Response to tclambert (Reply #16)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 05:51 PM

19. There's a T.C. Boyle story

about Vikings where one of the main characters is Thorkell the Misaligned.

Always loved that.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #19)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 07:50 PM

20. There was an honest to God Viking beserker called Ivar the Boneless....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_the_Boneless

There is some disagreement as to the meaning of Ivar's epithet "the Boneless" (inn Beinlausi) in the sagas. Some have suggested it was a euphemism for impotence or even a snake metaphor (he had a brother named Snake-in-the-Eye). It may have referred to an incredible physical flexibility; Ivar was a renowned warrior, and perhaps this limberness gave rise to the popular notion that he was "boneless". The poem "Háttalykill inn forni" describes Ivar as being "without any bones at all".

Alternatively, the English word "bone" is cognate with the German word "Bein", meaning "leg". Scandinavian sources mention Ivar the Boneless as being borne on a shield by his warriors. Some have speculated that this was because he could not walk and perhaps his epithet simply meant "legless"—perhaps literally or perhaps simply because he was lame. Other sources from this period, however, mention chieftains being carried on the shields of enemies after victory, not because of any infirmity.

“ Of historical personages the author knows of only one of whom we have a vague suspicion that he suffered from osteogenesis imperfecta, namely Ivar Benløs, eldest son of the Danish legendary king Regnar Lodbrog. He is reported to have had legs as soft as cartilage ('he lacked bones'), so that he was unable to walk and had to be carried about on a shield.[9] ”

There are less extreme forms of this disease where the person affected can lack use of their legs but otherwise be unaffected, as may have been the case for Ivar the Boneless. In 2003 Nabil Shaban, a disability rights advocate with osteogenesis imperfecta, made the documentary The Strangest Viking for Channel 4's Secret History, in which he explored the possibility that Ivar the Boneless may have had the same condition as himself. It also demonstrated that someone with the condition was quite capable of using a longbow, such that Ivar could have taken part in battle, as Viking society would have expected a leader to do.


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Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #20)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 11:05 PM

22. That's pretty amazing!

Thanks for the info!

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Response to tclambert (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:50 PM

15. my friend is named Zoltifar the Magnificent and Untamed.

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Response to Sweeney (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:34 AM

27. heeeeeeeee!

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Response to tclambert (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 30, 2018, 04:05 PM

29. Ever read any T. C. Boyle?

He has a short story called "We Are Norsemen" and one of the main characters is "Thorkell the Misaligned."

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Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Thu Feb 6, 2014, 06:50 PM

9. My kind of king

A warrior/scholar who loved learning (even thou he reportedly couldn't write) and brought about a mini-renaissance in France and Germany. Head of the Holy Roman Empire, which my teachers liked to point out wasn't really an empire, nor Roman, and certainly not Holy.

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Response to packman (Reply #9)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 11:10 AM

17. Huh? not mine *killed all non christians to create a christian kingdom

First non-white Muslims then
he launched a bloody war of extermination against the Saxon and other pagan German tribes under his control.
So after killing thousands of pagans, Charlemagne did manage to create a virtually uniform Christian kingdom

Head of the Holy Roman Empire by death and destruction
If you can't convert them kill them ? no not my kind of king but each to his own

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Response to lunasun (Reply #17)

Sat Feb 8, 2014, 12:59 PM

18. Looking at Middle Age

dynamics with 21st Century morality - a morality that was shaped by that death and destruction. Hard to believe any-ANY- early Middle Age person, especially a leader of a country would be anything but aggressive to the point of our perceived brutality in establishing order and their idea of civilization. Our judgment of death and destruction - their clear conscience of order and civilization. An argument for the times.

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Response to packman (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 15, 2014, 02:47 AM

23. Our modern popular image of Medieval monarchs pretty much comes from him.

Sitting on a throne with an orb and scepter with a big bejeweled gold crown and wearing a fine fur robe.

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Response to packman (Reply #9)


Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

Fri Feb 7, 2014, 05:29 PM

14. Bender was the first thing to pop into my head...

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Response to Lawlbringer (Reply #14)


Response to Rowdyboy (Original post)

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