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Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:21 PM

where did my empathy go?

a young man took his own life last night
his wife of less than a year had a miscarriage and this may have been the trigger
his own brother killed himself as a young teen
his wife, his parents, his friends
I am so angry at him. I have no sympathy for whatever his minor pain was. he has caused a thousandfold more, and he KNEW.

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply where did my empathy go? (Original post)
Kali Nov 2019 OP
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #1
SWBTATTReg Nov 2019 #4
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #13
SWBTATTReg Nov 2019 #18
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #21
hlthe2b Nov 2019 #5
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #14
hlthe2b Nov 2019 #15
Kali Nov 2019 #6
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #9
lostnfound Nov 2019 #16
mopinko Nov 2019 #11
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #12
mopinko Nov 2019 #17
vercetti2021 Nov 2019 #22
TEB Nov 2019 #2
Kali Nov 2019 #7
hlthe2b Nov 2019 #3
Kali Nov 2019 #8
BigmanPigman Nov 2019 #20
WhiteTara Nov 2019 #10
MissouriLibrul Nov 2019 #19
mopinko Nov 2019 #23
angstlessk Nov 2019 #24

Response to Kali (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:24 PM

1. I'm sorry for your loss

But people who have underlying mental health problems are battling and all it takes is something to push them over. I know this because I survived suicide twice. Empathy isn't given because the person that takes their own life is free of their personal pain. They don't consider consequence of how it'll effect others because most of the time they believe that no one will care. I did. I was wrong.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:31 PM

4. Wise words, couldn't never said it better than you. Best wishes to you always!

Follow up...my grandmother (mom's side) killed herself and my mom and her siblings were tremendously demoralized. No one had a clue either, after her husband (my grandfather) passed away from natural causes (heart issues), she fell into a serious funk that obviously no one caught. Very very sad and to this day, all of us still miss her (my grandmother) and wish we could have done something.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:56 PM

13. Lost the will to go on

Heartbreak can really effect the mental state. That was the second attempt I did was due to being heartbroken

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:14 PM

18. My heart is with you, and I'm with you. Best wishes to you always. It was heartbreak, ...

I think that my grandmother suffered, and being the kind of woman she was, didn't let on to anyone what was going on, she being a 'strong' and 'very opinionated person' (and like my mom too). Everyone needs a booster shot of just plain ol' loving. But I think she drove everyone away and didn't let anyone know that anything was going on. I was somewhat too young w/ my grandmother at that time, and she was kind of geographically far away.

I think w/ today's impersonal world (TV, and all) w/ no one on one relationships, people are missing the touch, the actual feeling of one on one). But most important thing to remember that everyone of those who took their lives (I've had several, including the grandma, and neighbors (2 of them)), are that they are mistaken, and that people DO truly and really care and love these who sadly fell by the wayside.

I try and maintain contacts w/ all, and on a regular basis. Heartbreak does occur to all of us and it can be an overwhelming force in one's life.

Best to you.

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Response to SWBTATTReg (Reply #18)

Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:10 AM

21. I appreciate that

I'm sorry for your loss. It's very difficult to battle these types of things anymore without the support of others. Even pushing those away can be devastating and it's done because they don't want to hurt them by being close. It's like my "friend" today told me. I'm sorry you're depressed. I will listen to you, but I can't offer you support or advice because of my own mental state. While I understand that, I took on so much of her problems without batting an eye. Sadly I feel I'm the only true friend in this thing.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:33 PM

5. That's a brave accounting from someone who has apparently "been there"...

I'm glad you found out differently and are here to tell about it.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #5)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:58 PM

14. Been there more than twice

Almost died from sepsis in March. Guess I have a purpose on earth to beat dying three times.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #14)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:01 PM

15. I would say so! Make it count, my friend!

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:48 PM

6. I am sorry you have been in that place, and I understand this intellectually

but this young man KNEW the pain he would cause, how could he possibly think no one cared? his family already went through it. he knew.

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Response to Kali (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:03 PM

9. Because it's all mentality

Like maybe they loved him more than him could have entered his head. Those demons are strong and it takes so much to battle them. Sadly his demons beat him. It just boils down to what is happening in their head

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Response to Kali (Reply #6)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:01 PM

16. I think people underestimate their importance to others

Iíve tended to think of suicide as a personal choice and a right of individual free will, when life became too impossible to endure and the choices were all Hobsonís choices.

The stress of living in oneís own head, wanting to avoid continuous pain that is making you crazy, makes one look for methods of escape. Itís like selecting ďresignĒ on a game youíve determined you canít win.

When thinking that way, I would think ďOther people might feel bad for a short time but itís not like I actually matter that much to anyoneĒ. well, there are a couple of exceptions..but am I obligated to live and feel miserable, for the sake of other people?

Perhaps he had pinned all his dreams and hopes and reasons for living on that future child. Gave up hope of anything ever being right.

Iím sorry.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:24 PM

11. i do believe many feel their families are better off w/o them.

 

i have bantered w suicidal ideation most of my life.
always had a plan in my back pocket.
wrestled w it over and over.

i once heard kurt vonnegut talk about his mother's suicide, and the fact that i did understand the impact helped to stay my hand. w/o his words, i dont really think i would have known.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #11)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:55 PM

12. Exactly

To this day I still struggle with wanting to live. But it would hurt my family and friends too much. I keep pushing on just like most.

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Response to vercetti2021 (Reply #12)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:05 PM

17. and there are way worse things to hold onto.

 

i have a good ad that put a pretty firm lid on that urge.
but i still have a favorite method.

did you ever read 'cats eye' by margaret atwood? there is a death at the heart of the story that occurs in a way that suicide is deniable. a very interesting read.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 18, 2019, 11:11 AM

22. Never read it

But it can be prevented. No doubt.

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Response to Kali (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:28 PM

2. Peace to family

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Response to TEB (Reply #2)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:49 PM

7. thank you

I don't know how they will ever find it again. what a tragedy.

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Response to Kali (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:31 PM

3. I'm really sorry. My Mother's adoptive father did similarly when she was a girl and it affected

her life from then forward. She never really got over it. I understand brain chemistry and the impact it can have on normal "thinking" in severe states of depression sufficiently to realize that suicide is not a choice one makes with a clearness of thought. That said, I remember how devastated my Mother was to be left behind by the only person who had truly loved her as a child.

I understand the anger.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #3)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 02:56 PM

8. I understand the anger too.

I think it is kind of a natural reaction to what can be seen as a selfish act, but I also know the pain and despair behind it so generally the reaction for "survivors" is mixed empathy and anger - at least to me. in this case I am having a hard time with the balance of seeing where he could be in that kind of pain to not care about the people he left behind. especially his parents.

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Response to Kali (Reply #8)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 07:12 PM

20. It is difficult to put yourself in someone

else's shoes and walk around in them for a while (To Kill A Mockinbird). If you don't have empathy it is almost normal. It is not easy to really understand the thoughts in someone else's brain. They are likely experiencing something as painful as the worst physical pain (like a person who was set on fire and had all their limbs cut off) and suffering just as much, you just do not see or accept it based on YOUR perspective, not their perspective.

Heartbreak can even be so severe that it can cause physical problems. Look at all the people who die of "natural causes" shortly after losing someone (usually a partner).

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Response to Kali (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 03:07 PM

10. One of my old lovers killed himself

about 40 years ago and I'm still angry with him. Although I could understand his pain, it throws the onus of his inability to cope on those who loved them. And it's so selfish and self cherishing of them. We/I didn't do enough, didn't see enough, didn't care enough; therefore ??? At one time in my life I felt that deep despair, but knew even then, everything is temporary and one day turns into another and it is different. Depression is a wicked master.

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Response to Kali (Original post)

Sun Nov 17, 2019, 04:29 PM

19. Dear Kali...

 

Itís so hard to understand why some think itís better for themselves and their families if they take their own lives; just disappear. Iíve suffered a lot of trauma in my own life and Iíve been down that lonesome road myself a few times. Depression is a selfish bastard that can and will steal every shred of self-worth and feeling of purpose from someone living in its grip.

We all like to believe we could never do something so selfish to our loved ones, but someone in the depths of severe depression may feel that their loved ones would be better off without them; better off not having to bear the never-ending burden of their despair. Sometimes depression is so severe, the depressed person canít even find their way out of the hole to ask for help.

Itís hard to forgive when you see the suffering those left behind have to endure. But the truth is, the person who has gone no longer needs forgiveness from you or his loved ones. All of you need to find a way to forgive so YOU can move forward in life. Hanging on to the anger, resentment and hostility (and asking ďwhy?Ē) are foolís errands.
I say all this not only as someone who has suffered that type of depression but as someone who has had to come to grips with other suicides in my own family.

Be angry. Throw shit. Sit in your car, roll up the windows and scream until youíre hoarse. Then try to let go. Slowly... slowly.. breathe... until the day comes (and it WILL eventually come) when you can think of those who felt their lives had no meaning with empathy.

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Response to MissouriLibrul (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 18, 2019, 01:15 PM

23. a lot of people understand that their loved ones share their burden.

 

if they cant see how they can carry their own burden, it must be hard to imagine that your loved ones are not equally crushed, if not moreso.
esp if some actions of their own touched off the crisis, sparing them further grief would certainly seem like a mercy.

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Response to Kali (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2019, 11:17 PM

24. Kali, I remember when my sister told me she had cancer

before that I could feel empathy for anyone for anything, but when I put myself in my sisters situation, I felt fear I hated, and never wanted to feel again...after that my empathy meter went to zero.

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