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Mon May 8, 2017, 12:28 PM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (steve2470) on Mon May 8, 2017, 03:28 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
steve2470 May 2017 OP
MFM008 May 2017 #1
steve2470 May 2017 #3
catbyte May 2017 #2
steve2470 May 2017 #5
elleng May 2017 #4
steve2470 May 2017 #8
Croney May 2017 #6
steve2470 May 2017 #9
sheshe2 May 2017 #7
steve2470 May 2017 #10
enough May 2017 #11
steve2470 May 2017 #12
BigRig May 2017 #13
steve2470 May 2017 #16
yallerdawg May 2017 #14
steve2470 May 2017 #17
democrank May 2017 #15
steve2470 May 2017 #18
True Dough May 2017 #19
steve2470 May 2017 #20
True Dough May 2017 #23
irisblue May 2017 #21
steve2470 May 2017 #22
vlyons May 2017 #24
n2doc May 2017 #25
retrowire May 2017 #26
matt819 May 2017 #27
kimbutgar May 2017 #28
steve2470 May 2017 #29

Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:37 PM

1. Sorry , I know

My kid yelled "STFU" at me last week for the first time in 33 years and I'm still bruised by that.
I only have the one child, I feel burned by his bad manners and temper.....

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Response to MFM008 (Reply #1)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:38 PM

3. .......

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:38 PM

2. I'm so sorry, Steve.

I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through because I'm not a parent--my late husband and I decided we just didn't want kids so we rescued cats--but I can surely tell you're hurting and for that I am truly sorry.

Again, I'm so sorry and although I have no sage advice, just know I care.

Take care.

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Response to catbyte (Reply #2)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:39 PM

5. thank you

I have tears in my eyes. Just knowing others care helps.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:38 PM

4. We're with you, steve.



We know we've all made mistakes. Over the years, my daughters have separated themselves from me, one of the 2 more often than the other, and I suspect bi-polar aspects of her. She now has 2 little ones, so I hope things go well for them; appears to be, but one never knows. I've held my breath and waited, and over time, she's come around, and I hope the same happens for you.

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Response to elleng (Reply #4)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:40 PM

8. thank you and....

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:39 PM

6. How old is he?

He made that threat because he knew it was the worst he could say to hurt you. Will he really do it? Probably not. And people change names all the time (like most married women). If he does change it, he's still your son and always will be. Right now you're blaming yourself for a mess of trouble that isn't your fault. It's a frustrating place to be. I hope he gets help and learns to see you as the incredible resource he is taking for granted and pushing away. Take care of yourself first.

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Response to Croney (Reply #6)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:41 PM

9. 21

Thank you and

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:39 PM

7. ...

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #7)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:41 PM

10. thank you

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:44 PM

11. Nothing can be crueler than the things our grown children sometimes say to us

when in the deepest parts of mental illness. It can be truly unbearable, soul-destroying, because it makes us hate ourselves, and also shows us how deeply our child is suffering. Other than having a child die, I can't think of anything worse.

The only thing I can say to you is that there really can be change and healing. It can take a very long time, so long you may think you can't go on. But change can happen and it can be real and lasting. I think human beings really do long for health, and that longing can be our direction, slowly, slowly.

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Response to enough (Reply #11)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:46 PM

12. thank you

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:46 PM

13. Most kids and young adult are selfish and immature.

It's a phase that will pass in their 30's. Don't ever let your kids statements get to you, they are only spewing their current thoughts which may be completely different an hour later. The most important thing a parent can do for a kid is to be there for them. If you can honestly say that you have mostly always been there for them, then you should be patting yourself on the back, because they will probably be ok in life.

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Response to BigRig (Reply #13)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:50 PM

16. yes, I will always be there for him and I was always there in the past too

Thank you

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:47 PM

14. Hey...

I'm working on Volume III of "Things I Never Said to My Father!" based on what my kids have been saying to me for twenty years!

All they want to know is "Where's the books, asshole?"

And they wonder why this generation will be the first to have lower living standards than we had.

It's called "revenge"!

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Response to yallerdawg (Reply #14)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:51 PM

17. thanks

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:49 PM

15. Nobody is perfect, Steve. Each and every one of us could improve.

Sometimes it helps to remember that today isn't yesterday, it's a new day. If your goal is to improve your relationship with your son, something needs to be done differently, right? It takes patience, it takes courage, it takes a willingness to listen....honestly listen.

Forgive yourself for not being perfect. Maybe take a little break if you can. Then, when you're ready, maybe consider writing a letter to your son.

Peace to you.



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Response to democrank (Reply #15)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:51 PM

18. thank you

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:52 PM

19. Hang in there, Steve!

Curious whether the "time out" was the therapist's idea or something you and your son agreed to try independent of the therapist? Doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I'm wondering if the no-communication period will be for a few weeks or months?

Did the therapist offer to help you mend the rift?

Your situation reminds me of what's gone on between my wife's brother and her father. Her brother, Dan, has been diagnosed as bipolar. He has drug and alcohol issues on top of that -- bad enough on its own, an even worse combination. He cut himself off from the entire family for a few years. Then he gradually re-established mail and phone contact with my wife their mom. He held off on contacting their father (separated from their mother since they were kids). Their dad was crushed when Dan shut down in the first place but felt even worse when Dan reconnected with others but continued to keep their dad at bay. There was no explanation and, knowing how tenuous relations are with Dan, none of us want to pry as to Dan's reasons for keeping the dad out of his life. That said, my wife has gently mentioned how their father is deeply hurt by the lack of communication with Dan.

Unfortunately some of what Dan has sought is financial support, we suspect it's for fueling his drug and alcohol habit. The mother has helped out with small amounts of money. Some of it gets paid back, some of it remains promised to be returned.

Anyway, I've seen the effects first hand and it's tough.

Hopefully, after some time to reflect, you and your son can bridge the differences between you. It likely won't happen without more hurt and heartache, but maybe you can get there with some work. In the meantime, let those emotions wash over you and, yeah, find solace in the support of other family and friends, including those here at the DU.

Best wishes.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #19)

Mon May 8, 2017, 12:55 PM

20. thanks

answers to your questions when I feel better


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Response to steve2470 (Reply #20)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:04 PM

23. Take your time

and take care of yourself!

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:02 PM

21. I got a text from my mom this am. It could be a neutral statement or it could be a slow burn hurt

Because of your post, and hearing your pain, I'll pass on the snotty reply I could make. Thanks for the reality check & hugs for you Steve.

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Response to irisblue (Reply #21)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:04 PM

22. thanks

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:31 PM

24. Anger is difficult to hear and more difficult to abandon

It's very very painful and downright embarrassing to see ourselves as others see us, no matter how true or false the accusation. Clearly your son has anger issues. You don't say whether he spends most of his time on the up or down side of being bi-polar. My brother's 2 kids are bi-polar. The son goes manic crazy, and the daughter goes into depressed worthlessness. I've tried to help both of them, but am not skillful enough to have had much success. Plus they really don't want to do the work to help themselves.

I can however tell you what has helped me thru my anger issues, which are legion. I'm a Buddhist, so what I know is that anger makes people stupid. Say and do stupid stuff that is hurtful to themselves and others. It took me many years to deal with my own anger. I still get angry about stuff, but I don't hold on to it and nurture it in my mind. And when other people around me get angry, I know that most of what they experience is their stuff that they are projecting onto me.

So you made some mistakes raising your son. Welcome to the human race. If you need to take a break from him to regain some balance and perspective, that's ok. But what is not helpful is beating yourself up because your son is angry, and you weren't a perfect Dad. Beating yourself up is counter productive. You're probably a decent fellow, and I'll bet that your son is too. But he has a mental illness, so his perspective about everything, including you, is unbalanced. Giving him the space to vent is better than him getting in bar fights, or going to jail for assault.

I realized long ago that I can't change or fix other people. I can only change my own point of view and behavior through doing my own work to clarify and deal with my own issues. Along the way, I was lucky enough to find some authentic teachers, who guided me how to think about and meditate on how to be truly happy. So now I have some modest skills in how to calm myself down and recenter, when I get upset and agitated. Millions of years of evolution have endowed us with emotions, some of which are very negative. Emotions are not real solid self-existent things. You can't weigh them on a scale or store them in a box in the garage. They only SEEM real. Emotions naturally arise as a response to our conditioned mental concepts about what we perceive. Similarly, our concepts aren't real either. They only SEEM real. Emotions and concepts are fleeting. They arise and are replaced by others. And because they can be replaced, I can choose to stop nurturing negative thoughts and think more positive thoughts. I can choose to stop being angry, jealous, envious, prideful, etc, and think different thoughts. But it takes practice. Lots of practice. I first have to be mindful and notice what my mind is dwelling on before I can choose to nurture different thoughts. And that takes practice too.

So please, don't beat yourself up. In Buddhism, our practice is just that - PRACTICE. We try and fail to deal with our issues with a healthy mind, and try again. And fail, and try again. You just need to acquire a few skills to deal with yours. Maybe your therapist has taught you some skills already, and you just need more practice. But please don't beat yourself up.

The best way of cultivating wholesome attitudes towards all sentient beings is through meditation. Among the many topics of meditation taught by the Buddha, there are four specifically concerned with the cultivation of loving-kindness, compassion, appreciative joy and equanimity. These four are called the Four Immeasurables because they are directed to an immeasurable number of sentient beings, and because the wholesome mental states produced through practising them is immeasurable. The four are also called the sublime states of mind because they are like the extraordinary states of mind of the gods.

By cultivating the wholesome attitudes of loving-kindness, compassion, appreciative joy and equanimity, people can gradually remove ill will, cruelty, jealousy and desire. In this way, they can achieve happiness for themselves and others, now and in the future.

Here's a little Buddhist prayer that I say frequently. It's call the "The Four Immeasurables Prayer"
May all sentient beings be liberated from suffering, and the causes and conditions of suffering.
May all sentient beings be happy, and have the causes and conditions of happiness.
May they never be disassociated from the supreme happiness which is without suffering.
May they remain in the boundless equanimity, free from both attachment to close ones and rejection of others.

Best of luck. Sending you a little ray of sunshine

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:38 PM

25. Mental Illness is so hard to deal with

I had a spouse go completely off the deep end. And I will confess I was not caring and understanding while she was doing so. I was a dick. I have gone through counseling and understand both of us much better now, and try not to let my emotions get the better of me.

A break is probably a good thing, so long as he gets help along the way. Time, and understanding, will heal a lot of crap.

Don't get too down on yourself, because what you have gone though has happened to lots of good people.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 01:50 PM

26. He's 21?

I told my dad "fuck you old man" at the age of 14.

He was an alcoholic trying to be a real father for once after fucking up so much. Made me angry.

Then he died when I was 17. I never got to apologize. But knowing what he went through with his much more abusive parents, I'm sure he'd understand.

That said, in my experience, the resentment between fathers and sons seems to be a common thing. Talk to me about this. Maybe we can both explore and discover something. Why do you think he wants to reject your name? I was named after my dad and have felt the same way before.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 02:21 PM

27. Of course, we don't know all the details

Age, issues, etc.

So, with that caveat. . .

Sometimes children can be dicks, too. And they don't have the years behind them that their parents do in dealing with their own challenges, as people and as parents. And most children, whether kids, teens, or adults, certainly lack a filter when it comes to judging their parents. So consider that.

As for the name change - that's just dickishness. But as much as we as parents - fathers, especially - have this desire to pass their name along to their progeny, the name doesn't define you, or them, or their offspring. It is their decency, the stability of their moral compass, etc., that define them. In their late twenties and early thirties, my kids show no signs of planning to settle down and/or have children. Does it bug me in the "passing my name along" department? A little. But that's not terribly important in the big picture. Would it hurt if they hurled that at me as your son has done to you? Probably. But to be crushed? I would hope not. But I realize that there's probably a lot more that we don't know you and your kids, so that attack probably has more meaning to you.

As a friend of mine told me recently in response to a rant about how my life sucks, etc. - Breathe.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 02:50 PM

28. Steve, I feel your pain

I have a 24 year old son who is autistic. He beat me up at age 20 and I lived in fear of him. I ended up moving him to a group home. But there is nothing worst than your child with mental health issues to disrespect you and call you names. I still deal with the " shut up Mom" and the f you at times. Sometimes it's so hard to have the inner strength to not lash back. I feel for you brother.

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Response to steve2470 (Original post)

Mon May 8, 2017, 03:28 PM

29. thanks for the support everyone, going to self-delete now nt

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