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Tue Nov 20, 2012, 09:46 PM

Multiple bouts with Lyme disease due to reinfection, not recurrence


For most people who contract Lyme disease—a bacterial infection borne by ticks—a course of antibiotics does the trick. But for some, especially those who live in areas like the Northeast U.S., where Lyme disease is particularly common, the infection comes back. That raises questions about whether the disease is recurring—a single infection leading to multiple bouts with symptoms—or if reinfection is occurring, meaning the patient is unlucky enough to have been bit again.

Now a new study, published Wednesday in the New England Journal of Medicine, appears to lay the question to rest: Such patients are reinfected, and Lyme disease does not appear to recur after successful courses of antibiotics.

The study looked at 17 patients who had multiple bouts of Lyme disease, analyzing the strain of bacterium that infected each one on each occasion (there are at least 19 different strains of the responsible bacterium, according to the study). The researchers found no example where two subsequent infections were caused by the same strain, meaning the disease was caused the second time by reinfection in all cases—there were no recurrences.

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Reply Multiple bouts with Lyme disease due to reinfection, not recurrence (Original post)
NickB79 Nov 2012 OP
Warpy Nov 2012 #1
TreasonousBastard Nov 2012 #2
kickysnana Nov 2012 #3
NickB79 Nov 2012 #4
kickysnana Nov 2012 #5

Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:44 PM

1. Exactly what has been thought all along, and why

the fancy protocols of long term antibiotics were discarded as useless and probably harmful.

I've had Lyme and it's ugly. However, a month of killer dose antibiotics cured it and I haven't had any recurrence in nearly 30 years.

The spirochetes are still very vulnerable to a number of antibiotics, cheap generics among them.

(damn, I'm glad I don't live on Cape Cod any more)

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 12:03 AM

2. I had it twice, and never knew it until...

I had serious joint problems and made a stink at the VA hospital to get tested for it. Seems I had two different strains and the little nasties like to hide in dark places like deep in the knee or in the brain. A course of antibiotics to get rid of any leftover bugs and everything is fine.

Until I get it again. Lotsa ticks around here.

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Response to NickB79 (Original post)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 01:32 AM

3. Problem with Valhalla study

----- Original Message -----
From: Phyllis Mervine (LymeDisease.Org formerly CALDA)
To: Minnesota Lyme ; NebraskaLyme ; North Dakota ; alaskalyme@xxxx ; Colorado Lyme ; South Dakota ; MontanaLyme@xxxx
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:22 PM
Subject: [MinnesotaLyme] Problem with Valhalla study

Dr. Nadelman, lead author of the new study on Lyme disease, is quoted as saying, “There is not any evidence in patients in the U.S. that the bacteria persist after an appropriate course of antibiotics.” He should have said, “in THESE patients.”

Nadelman’s small study is about people with EARLY Lyme. It simply shows that patients who live in highly endemic areas may become reinfected over a 15-year period and may then develop signs of early Lyme disease. This is not really anything new. It doesn't mean that CHRONIC Lyme is not caused by persistent infection. It doesn’t prove anything about CHRONIC Lyme at all. His patients did not have CHRONIC Lyme.

CHRONIC patients don’t get on with their lives and come back 15 years later complaining of a newly acquired EM rash. CHRONIC patients remain sick or become worse after initial treatment. As many as 50% of people treated with an “appropriate” course of antibiotics fail that treatment. Not just “a few.”

People with CHRONIC Lyme may be very ill. Our survey of over 4,500 of them found that 25% had been on disability for their illness. They may be as disabled as patients with congestive heart failure and have as much pain as post-surgery patients. These are the people we need to figure out how to treat.

We should be talking about the people who are NOT diagnosed and treated early, and who develop serious, CHRONIC symptoms.

People like Nadelman should spend less time blowing smoke and get on with finding a cure.

Note to Warpy: Appropriate course now means 2 days to 2 weeks of treatment not 30 days. You were lucky that you were able to get longer treatment and your immune system did its job. They just keep making this worse with their ill thought out studies.

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Response to kickysnana (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 21, 2012, 09:42 AM

4. Are the illnesses of those with chronic Lyme due to active infection, though

It is possible that the symptoms that chronic Lyme sufferers experience could well be due to damage done to their bodies during the initial infection that then persists long after the bacteria have been killed off by the course of antibiotics. My best friend's mom was infected during the early 90's, and afterwards suffered nerve damage to her hands that severely curtailed her ability to do art (she was an amazing painter). If so, the current recommendation to use just one initial course of antibiotics would still be appropriate, and we must then focus on finding a different course of treatment for the subsequent post-infection syndrome.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 22, 2012, 06:25 AM

5. In the State support groups

The definitions for our group members were:

LymeRix vaccine syndrome.

Recently infected
Recently infected, treated or in treatment, ongoing symptoms: (Lyme can and does exacerbate preexisting conditions and also ticks carry other diseases that need to be treated differently than Lyme disease. Diagnosis can be difficult).

Treated, recovered.
Treated, recovered but with some or all permanent disability.

Treated more than once and/or with multiple protocols still symptomatic. Duration under 1 year.=Persistent Lyme
Treated more than once, etal, still symptomatic. Duration more than one year=Chronic Lyme

What would determine if you have recovered with disability or are still infected is new damage.

Things that affect Lyme Infections

Actual initial dose and even infection site.
Specific organism of infection (symptoms vary greatly from area to area)
Genetic makeup.
Overall health.
Immune health.
Dosage and length of treatment.
Length of time of infection.
pre-existing conditions.
Individual bodies ability to work with treatments. (ability for the antibiotics to cross the blood brain barrier, reach other areas of deep tissue infections varies from person to person)

In general people do better if they use careful hyperthermia, nutritional supplements including older cholesterol medicines, magnesium, higher dose Vitamin D, Higher dose B vitamins, adequate C, and yeast overgrowth control. Some people have benefited from hyperbaric oxygen treatment, especially those who cannot tolerate antibiotics. Also for those people ph control, rest and increased salt have also been used successfully sometimes to supplement their own immune system which is the final determiner of all treatment success.

Misdiagnosis is common both ways, MS, RA, ALS, Dementia, CFS, Fibromyalgia, IBS, Parkinsons and it takes a good doctor a long time to sort it out and many either don't have the time or would rather not get caught in a tarbaby Lyme Diagnosis. It can be hazardous to their career life.

As for your Aunt, I have been watching the tremendous progress they have been making in getting nerve and other tissue damage from many causes repaired or compensated through medicine and technology. Here we have Courage Center, Sister Kenny and the University of MN that is at the forefront of such research. Most PC doctors and even Specialists do not have the time to seek out all new treatments for old damage for each of their patients so you have to be your own advocate research online about every six months to be sure you can be all you can be.

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