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Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:48 AM

 

"Gays can't be trusted with children"

How damaging is that statement? How does it affect you? For you, is it forgivable if someone has said this?

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Reply "Gays can't be trusted with children" (Original post)
Prism Apr 2012 OP
HillWilliam Apr 2012 #1
Prism Apr 2012 #4
HillWilliam Apr 2012 #18
obamanut2012 May 2012 #81
MADem Apr 2012 #2
Prism Apr 2012 #3
MADem Apr 2012 #10
Prism Apr 2012 #14
MADem Apr 2012 #21
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #25
MADem Apr 2012 #42
Prism Apr 2012 #26
MADem Apr 2012 #46
obamanut2012 May 2012 #83
MADem May 2012 #85
obamanut2012 May 2012 #82
MADem May 2012 #86
Vanje Apr 2012 #5
xchrom Apr 2012 #6
LonePirate Apr 2012 #7
Prism Apr 2012 #8
LonePirate Apr 2012 #11
MADem Apr 2012 #12
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #13
Prism Apr 2012 #15
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #16
Prism Apr 2012 #17
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #19
Prism Apr 2012 #20
MADem Apr 2012 #22
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #27
Prism Apr 2012 #32
MADem Apr 2012 #40
Hassin Bin Sober May 2012 #61
obamanut2012 May 2012 #84
Fearless Apr 2012 #56
Creideiki Apr 2012 #58
Fearless Apr 2012 #59
yardwork May 2012 #63
Jamastiene May 2012 #67
Fearless May 2012 #70
Jamastiene May 2012 #74
Fearless May 2012 #76
Prism May 2012 #89
Fearless May 2012 #95
Prism May 2012 #102
yardwork May 2012 #103
Fearless May 2012 #110
Jamastiene May 2012 #111
yardwork May 2012 #91
CreekDog May 2012 #94
Fearless May 2012 #96
Fearless May 2012 #69
yardwork May 2012 #71
Fearless May 2012 #73
Creideiki May 2012 #79
Fearless May 2012 #88
Creideiki May 2012 #90
Fearless May 2012 #93
The Green Manalishi May 2012 #116
Vanje Apr 2012 #9
laconicsax May 2012 #60
Zorra Apr 2012 #23
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #31
Zorra Apr 2012 #54
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #57
Zorra May 2012 #72
yardwork May 2012 #122
Zorra May 2012 #75
Hassin Bin Sober May 2012 #98
Zorra May 2012 #100
Hassin Bin Sober May 2012 #101
Zorra May 2012 #106
yardwork May 2012 #113
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #123
dsc Apr 2012 #24
Prism Apr 2012 #30
dsc Apr 2012 #52
Ptah Apr 2012 #28
Prism Apr 2012 #29
HillWilliam Apr 2012 #33
Prism Apr 2012 #34
DURHAM D Apr 2012 #35
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #47
MADem Apr 2012 #44
Jamastiene May 2012 #68
Marcel May 2012 #78
William769 Apr 2012 #36
HillWilliam Apr 2012 #37
Prism Apr 2012 #38
DURHAM D Apr 2012 #43
DURHAM D Apr 2012 #41
MADem Apr 2012 #45
Pab Sungenis Apr 2012 #48
Call Me Wesley Apr 2012 #49
tech3149 Apr 2012 #39
Call Me Wesley Apr 2012 #50
Puglover May 2012 #87
yardwork May 2012 #92
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #109
yardwork May 2012 #112
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #108
Bluenorthwest Apr 2012 #51
mitchtv Apr 2012 #53
CreekDog May 2012 #97
Evasporque Apr 2012 #55
Smarmie Doofus May 2012 #62
Veruca Salt May 2012 #64
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #65
Jamastiene May 2012 #66
Rhiannon12866 May 2012 #77
obamanut2012 May 2012 #80
MADem May 2012 #99
yardwork May 2012 #104
MADem May 2012 #105
closeupready May 2012 #107
yardwork May 2012 #114
Zorra May 2012 #115
yardwork May 2012 #117
Zorra May 2012 #119
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #120
Puglover May 2012 #121
Zorra May 2012 #143
stevenleser May 2012 #118
FreeState May 2012 #124
MineralMan May 2012 #125
obamanut2012 May 2012 #126
MineralMan May 2012 #127
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #128
queerart May 2012 #133
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #134
obamanut2012 May 2012 #136
Shining Jack May 2012 #129
MineralMan May 2012 #130
MNBrewer May 2012 #131
MineralMan May 2012 #132
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #135
MineralMan May 2012 #139
obamanut2012 May 2012 #137
MineralMan May 2012 #138
obamanut2012 May 2012 #140
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #141
Doctor_J May 2012 #142
DURHAM D May 2012 #144
obamanut2012 May 2012 #146
DURHAM D May 2012 #148
obamanut2012 May 2012 #154
Doctor_J May 2012 #150
yardwork May 2012 #151
Doctor_J May 2012 #153
obamanut2012 May 2012 #155
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #158
William769 May 2012 #147
mitchtv May 2012 #152
Jamastiene May 2012 #149
closeupready May 2012 #145
trumad May 2012 #156
DURHAM D May 2012 #157
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #159
trumad May 2012 #160
William769 May 2012 #163
Puglover May 2012 #165
Bluenorthwest May 2012 #166
Call Me Wesley May 2012 #167
Hassin Bin Sober May 2012 #161
trumad May 2012 #162
Pab Sungenis May 2012 #164
Autumn Oct 2015 #168

Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:53 AM

1. It is absolutely not forgiveable

When someone lies against your own good character and/or lies against a whole community they're attempting to aggrandize themselves by stealing your spirit. During my lifetime, LGBTs have been a doormat, whipping-boy, excuse for bigoted behavior, everything but treated as a child of G'd. I'm sick of it. It seems that the worst offenders never reform in their bigoted behavior even in the face of irrefutable facts to the contrary about who and what we are.

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:07 AM

4. What kind of turnaround would someone have to exhibit?

 

For you to forgive that statement?

MaDem seems to be calling me out, because I'm referencing what another DUer has said in the past. So I have. But are words of mumbled apology enough? What would it take for you to forgive someone who said that?

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Response to Prism (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:52 AM

18. Mumbled apologies aren't enough for me

Maybe I'm old and just a tiny bit embittered by a lifetime of fighting liars. I want to see some action. Y'know, like volunteer at a food bank that serves the LGBT community. Get involved in local politics and really lobby for change. Do some fundraising for hospice.

Hell, even go to the hospital and visit some HIV patients. Doesn't matter who they are; just stop by to leave a positive vibe. A smile, a hello, a handsqueeze means so very much to someone who may have nothing or no one else.

I'm not asking for anyone to nail themselves to the cross. Just do something quietly. Don't do a day's worth and then come back to DU crowing about it. (That's just tacky.)

Am I asking too much? I don't know. But the pain those words in the OP cause by factless bigots hurt deep.

I'll work on my anger. I have to trust others to work on their own issues. If they don't, well...

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Response to Prism (Reply #4)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:48 AM

81. If the person believed this 20 or 30 years ago, then probably yes

I would get they have evolved, because we are talking several decades. A handful of years? Nope. No way that would happen, unless a beloved child or grandchild came out, or was murdered for being LGBT.

Like HillWilliam states below: working at an organization whose mission is helping LGBT's in some way would help some.

I am old enough to have little patience, or tolerance,for any homophobic attitudes anywhere.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 08:58 AM

2. This smells like bait to me. Now why don't you reveal who said such a thing?

Then the piling on can really begin...?

People often say despicable things and later have a change of heart. A very good example of that is Sen Robert Byrd, who was brought up as a racist and came to understand that the views he had been taught were just so fucking ... WRONG.

I am not liking the construction of this thread one bit. It has a purpose, and that purpose isn't pure of heart.

If you are going to bring up hate speech, you should bring up the retraction of that speech as well, with links, if you're going to be truly transparent.

If you have an issue with someone, I suggest you take it to PM, but don't involve others--quite unknowingly-- in your fight with blind hypothetical statements--it's cheesy, and reflects more on you than the person who made the idiotic and homophobic statement.

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:03 AM

3. Juries keep hiding it

 

So, I figured I might as well discuss it in a forum of my own community, since straight people find it too unpleasant to deal with. A straight person forgiving this means nothing. Only LGBTers can determine the potency of the statement. I wanted to check myself, so to speak, against my peers. To see if they felt as I do.

You are in no position to judge the pureness of my heart. I am plainspoken. A DUer said this in the past, and many people feel they can paper over it because of their ideological alliances. I do not want it papered over. I do not want it forgiven. These statements have caused grave damage to the LGBT community. I have seen the hurt it causes. I have seen the lives destroyed by these attitudes.

Who are you to question me?

I suggest you pontificate elsewhere. You think this is some silly message board war. I volunteer with LGBT youth in shelters. I see the lives destroyed by the rhetoric. I experience the damage done.

Question elsewhere. I'm having a discussion with my community.

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Response to Prism (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:21 AM

10. I question you because you didn't reveal who said it or the context.

Where it was said, when it was said, the whole flavor of that ungodly mess. You also didn't reveal the apology--which people can take or leave--and you are presenting the issue as a hypothetical, not as an actual statement by a real live DUer (who has been in the news way too much lately, IMO).

Now, I would have to say that failure to reveal these key aspects is somewhat less than "plainspoken."

When will the "Ah Ha! Reveal!!" follow?

No one is trying to prevent you from having a discussion with your community--certainly not me. Discuss away! Please! But I think you need to be honest in your discussions. You think you're the only person in the world who cares about members of your community? I don't like seeing good and fair people dragged into imbroglios without full information. Why is that so wrong or bad?

The nice thing about DU3 is that we can SEE hidden "juried" threads with just one little click. Nothing is truly hidden, anymore. So link, already--it's two clicks instead of one. Let people judge for themselves--don't tell smart people what to think, let them think for themselves with full information.

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:30 AM

14. What, exactly, would you like me to do?

 

I have mentioned the poster by name and in context, twice, and both times the jury admonished me for the horror of it all. Since that didn't work in a "mixed" forum, I decided to take the question here, to my community.

I'm asking a simple, straightforward question. "How do you feel about this statement? Can you forgive someone who said it?" The apology is immaterial to the question. It's implied in the answer. If someone can forgive the person if they apologize, well, there you go. Asked and answered, all bases covered.

I'm glad you're so deeply concerned with the meta of it all - it's your luxury as a straight person. I'm concerned with how these statements and people have damaged my community. Be concerned away with whether or not the speaker of those words are getting a fair shake. I wish you would devote so many paragraphs to the kids I deal with on a weekly basis.

It must be lovely to be so privileged to be so concerned about the fairness of it all when a white male poster isn't being given full transparency. Where's this fairness sense of yours when young LGBTers are having their lives wrecked by the rhetoric espoused by him?

Oh, gee, not so full of multi-paragraph lectures there all of a sudden, are you? Not bothering to bounce in and help, hmm? You just want to wade in on your sense of justice, huh? Poor guy, not getting his shake.

Weird, right?

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Response to Prism (Reply #14)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:03 AM

21. OK--I take your point.

Come on, let's not fight over this, I don't want to "derail" your thread or anything like that.

I hate to suggest the "poster who shall not be named" trick, because I don't like that either. I just don't think that coyness helps the situation any more than hypotheticals do.

I like the way you have presented your case to me here (even with the slight snark). I now understand (which I didn't take from your OP because you did not mention it--and that might have helped) what happened to you, that juries hid your thread, that you tried to discuss this matter and got shut down, etc. If you'd opened with that we wouldn't be having this chat.

FWIW, I am not thrilled with the "poster who shall not be named" either. I find the self-aggrandizing and lecturing a bit tiresome at times.

I would hope that young LBGTers aren't reading that shithole at Free Republic--that could mess them up in a serious way. I would also hope, if they did come across that crap, that they'd "consider the source."

I'm not "lecturing" either--I can't help that you are ascribing a "tone" to me that I do not possess. I like fairness across the board--I don't care about race, gender, orientation, age, ethnicity, you name it. I deliberately don't reveal certain details about myself because I don't want people putting me in a box--but I do find it funny at times when people make assumptions about who/what I am. I can't expect people to be fair to me if I'm not fair to them, that's how I take it. And sometimes, I need to go out of my way to be fair to the people who might deserve a good smack--that's when it's most important to be fair, IMO--when you're inclined, out of justified dislike, to be less so.

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Response to MADem (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:12 AM

25. Treating those who mistreat and misuse others kindly does not express 'fairness' at

 

all. This is particularly true for those who are removed from the actual actions.
And I hope you understand that the hate speech on FR travels forth, no young people need to go there to read it, it is read by their teachers, their parents, the hateres in their town, who then feel empowered to express their bigotry. That is WHY those people post that sort of propaganda, in order to motivate others to action based on that propaganda. I mean, do you seriously think such messages are corraled there on FR, they don't launch forth and get taken out into the world? I note to you that those messages wound up on DU.
If you think that mendacious bull shit did not enter the world through those who read and believed it, you are simply incorrect.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #25)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:52 AM

42. Usually, when they are dragged over here, it's for the "point and laugh" entertainment value.

This situation is entirely different, though. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this in all the time I have been here.

I do understand and take your point--it's the whole "Big Lie" thing. Faux Snooz is expert at that sort of thing. So's Limbaugh--people hear him on the radio and they parrot his bullshit. Enough people repeat it and it becomes normalized.

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Response to MADem (Reply #21)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:14 AM

26. I don't want to fight over it either

 

I apologize for my snark. It's hard not to get worked up on this target.

I try not to overshare on DU, but one thing I have mentioned is that I work with LGBT youth in local programs. I spend a lot of time seeing and hearing how their lives are destroyed by homophobia, how every little bit of rhetoric and belief leaks into their families' minds and circles back to contribute to wrecking them.

So, when I see "gays can't be trusted with children," that is a monstrous red flag, and that kind of rhetoric, to me, requires an almost preternatural bit of penance to correct. Not a simple "I believe differently now" or "Well, I'm a Democrat and stuff." That's meaningless to me. That doesn't fix it. That doesn't make up for it. Not close. Not in the same universe. It's serious damage that requires serious contrition. You can't undo that by slapping a bumper sticker onto your car and saying "Well, gee, I'm different now!"

Instead, I'm seeing these games, these half-apologies, this evasiveness and dishonesty and an unwillingness to even acknowledge the lie that this person supported LGBT rights "for decades." It's a serious lie, given the context, and one told here over and over again. The right words for the right audience and all that. How do these lies square? Why has there been no acknowledgement for that lie? I mean, if I came here saying "I have fought for the civil rights of African-Americans for decades!" and someone uncovered me screaming the n-word left and right across the internet, how would I be taken? Not seriously, right? I mean, there'd be some suspicions, at least. But he says "Well, faulty data and stuff," and all is forgiven!

What? Are people freakin kidding me? Faulty data? In the 21st century? The jury was still out on gays being pedophiles?

It's so much horseshit, I cannot believe anyone on this board should have to freak out to put that to the obvious lie it is.

It's too much and shouldn't be happening here.

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Response to Prism (Reply #26)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:16 PM

46. I was laboring under a complete misapprehension, and I am sorry if I came off snarky, myself.

I really did think that the 'poster in question' had issued a full bore apology and an unequivocal repudiation of his comments.

If it was one of those "If I have offended anyone" non-apology things, than that doesn't cut it, either. The only way to get to the harsh truth is to cut to the bone and see that shit for what it is, own it, repudiate it, and speak out with those simple three words "I was wrong" -- followed by "I am sorry."

Tangential to this discussion, if gays can't be trusted with children, why is it that so many pedophiles in the news are reported as being married to people of the opposite gender? Kind of upsets that thesis just a tad, I'd say.

I have to kind of laugh at the civil rights argument, too--I have a running joke going on with a few DUers here about how the whole "black struggle" thing is flung out anytime someone wants to "prove" their bona fides on any issue--it's used as a shield any time the going gets rough ("Why, how could I possibly be accused of (insert your bigotry here), I was in favor of desegregation all those years ago!". You can be for one civil right, and still be opposed to others. It happens. Opposing racial inequity, discrimination against gays or women, for example, does not automatically make a person pre-disposed to, say, protecting the religious freedom of (insert religion that might be regarded as cult-ish or otherwise unappealing). People DO discriminate--and sometimes, they discriminate in very mean and personal and unfair and wrong ways. Even here on little ole DU....! We're not as perfect as we might sometimes like to think, unfortunately!


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Response to MADem (Reply #21)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:51 AM

83. It kinda bothers me you are in here lecturing the LGBT Group

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #83)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:54 AM

85. I didn't mean to lecture. I didn't understand the context.

I am sorry that I was snarky.

What more should I say or do?

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Response to MADem (Reply #2)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:49 AM

82. Byrd is a bad example, because he stayed very homophobic

And also wasn't a stalwart defender of women's rights.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #82)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:06 AM

86. Elsewhere in this thread, I talked about people who only believe in some equal rights.

It's an ugly little thing that we don't admit, even here--that someone can be for civil rights and against equal rights for women; they can be for equal rights for women and against equal rights for gays; and support for one issue does not always translate to all. It is why I am amused when people say "It's just like civil rights for black people!!" Or "It's just like the women's movement!!" when they are trying to espouse a POV about some issue of equality, be it gender-based, orientation-based, religion (or lack of same) based, what-have-you. The truth is, none of these things are really like the other, and the way one can prove it is by talking to people--many of whom are here within our Big Tent--and learning, to our great surprise, that they aren't as enthused about equality beyond their own little group as we might assume.

I used Byrd as an example only because he was a Klan wizard (now, that's hard-core racist) who came to terms with regard to civil rights and publicly acknowledged and admitted his error--not because he was some kind of Equality Guru who checked all the blocks. He had one particular blind spot and he overcame that one specific prejudice. That's not to say he overcame others.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:09 AM

5. Its nothing short of hate speech.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:13 AM

6. It's one of the most frightening things that can be uttered

About the LGBTIQ community.

Such things can unjustly send our people to prison - have done so in the past.

It's an ancient & ugly Spectre.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:14 AM

7. Isn't this statement a ToS violation due to its inherent homophobia?

I would say I am surprised something so horrific was said here on DU; but with all of the anti-LGBT and other right wing viewpoints and posters here at DU now, it really is no surprise at all.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:16 AM

8. It wasn't said here on DU

 

But it was said by a poster on DU who is now the Pillar of the Community. Sick of it.

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Response to Prism (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:21 AM

11. Use the Ignore feature unless ...

You're waiting for the person to spew that hate on here, which is probably just a matter of time, then you can report them to MIRT (?) for a final action.

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Response to Prism (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:22 AM

12. I would not call him a pillar.

A bit of a pill, more like. He enjoys attention.

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Response to Prism (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:26 AM

13. It was posted in 2004 elsewhere, dragged here via 'confessional threads'

 

The poster in question berated me for not accepting the 'truth' that he had supported full equality "For Decades". He did that on DU. Many times. Decades, when not 5 years had passed. A person who feels the need to lie has a objective for those lies. That person used his now proven lies to denigrate, to preach, to take standing that simply is not his to take, to argue for delay of the same rights he openly opposed with lies and slanders a short time before.
When offered the chance to own up to his lies, he refused. He doubled down.
The DUers who are shilling for him are in fact taking up his arugments, his methods, and all that goes with those arguments and methods, including the sterling reputation that always comes from endorsing well known fakers.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:32 AM

15. You and I have seen the lies

 

But I just don't know when the justice portion of the program will be joining us.

We're being asked to be blind, deaf, and dumb to homophobia and told "Well he said sorry, geez. What more can you want?"

So spoken by, shocker, straight people.

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Response to Prism (Reply #15)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:42 AM

16. Well he did not say sorry at all. He lied right here on DU and did not own it nor apologize

 

and of course, lies are always told with an objective in mind. A goal sought with lies is never an honest goal.
And of course, it is the straight folks he did not lie to that are assiting him in his 'work' here on DU, helping sell lies as a political modality on DU. I think liars stink a smelly stank. They seem to dig liars, and get off on sniffing at that stank....

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:43 AM

17. But it's not civil of you to say so

 

And you do want to be "civil", don't you?

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Response to Prism (Reply #17)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:00 AM

19. Dishonesty is never civil, a lie is not civil. I will always call out a lie and a liar...

 

Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them and all that. If full tilt dishonesty is a 'community standard' here, then it is not a community for me, it is that simple. Rejection at the hands of liars and agents for liars is a fucking honor, a gold star.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #19)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:03 AM

20. You and I are on the same page

 

I cannot pretend I have not seen what I have seen. Some people might say that's flaming out, to go to bat going after this kind of rhetoric. If telling the truth is flaming out, so be it.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #16)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:05 AM

22. I am in error then--I thought he did apologize.

If he didn't, then he needs to.

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Response to MADem (Reply #22)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:18 AM

27. Thank you. Just thank you.

 

What is bothering me out of other DUers is that they are selling this 'he apologized' bullshit, when he did not so much as admit to his lies on DU. If they want to defend a liar for lying, they need to do that, not pretend there was some apology and amends made when there was not. All of his 'self deleted confession' threads are there to see. Many need to go look prior to making accusations against others.
The sad thing is good DUers are defending the indefensible without taking the time to see what they are promoting.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:37 AM

32. Yes, the big lie here is being left mysteriously unexplained

 

Why does someone who can repeat the gays are likely pedophiles garbage come to DU and claim they've supported LGBT equality "for decades".

This is a lie. Why is this lie unaccounted for? Why is there no acknowledgement? Why are these two stories left unreconciled? Why is the half-apology accepted without an explanation for this lie?

I know people's default setting is to paper over unpleasantness, but this is a hell of a thing to glide past on the way to forgiveness. He never actually made any kind of amends at all. He left the lie to stand without acknowledgement, explanation, or real apology.

He didn't own up to jack shit.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #27)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:46 AM

40. If he didn't apologize, he needs to.

If he wants to "get correct" with people, anyway.

Robert Byrd and David "Blinded By The Right" Brock were only forgiven their transgressions because they acknowledged them and acknowledged, without any equivocation, the hurt they caused others. That is a key piece of the whole 'healing' thing. The first thing one needs to do, though, is see what one did.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #27)

Tue May 1, 2012, 01:06 AM

61. Today he is back to saying those weren't his views.

When he got busted with those posts (after much double dog daring to search his postings) he claimed he has evolved now that he actually knows gay people.

Just today, he writes (in the restricted hosts forum):

I've tried to explain and apologize for the few Free Republic posts that have shown up. They were all posted from 6-10 years ago, and not on DU. They don't represent my thinking, and actually didn't represent it at the time, but there's no way to explain them. So, I apologize for them, and regret that I ever wrote them. That's genuine.






Here is my response to one of his defenders today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=84821
Sure.

But here is the problem:

With one breath, he says he has changed his opinion. In the next breath, he says that wasn't REALLY his opinion.

On one day, he says he regrets holding the view that a gay person is prone to pedophilia. That he should be excused for his bigoted views because he never knew any gay people (never mind his posts saying he attended high school with gay people).


On another day, today in fact, he says those were never REALLY his views:


Today from the forum hosts forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124315491#post22
I've tried to explain and apologize for the few Free Republic posts that have shown up. They were all posted from 6-10 years ago, and not on DU. They don't represent my thinking, and actually didn't represent it at the time, but there's no way to explain them. So, I apologize for them, and regret that I ever wrote them. That's genuine.



Which is it? Didn't hold those views or held those views but "grew" out of those views?

I'm happy letting the whole thing drop. But MM will keep changing his story based on his audience and play people for suckers. It's only been a couple weeks since his "heart felt apology" and already the story is changing back to the same bullshit he started with - "I was an agent provocateur" not a real life bigot.

I have the feeling you have never been told you are probably a kiddie fucker because of the way you were born. My neighbor's repiglican rural neighbors asked her if she felt safe leaving her 3 year old alone with me and my partner because, well you know, we are "like that".

That shit stings.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #13)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:53 AM

84. I thought it was early 2006

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Response to Prism (Reply #8)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 04:27 PM

56. Please do not rehash past issues.

Opening old wounds is unnecessary and harmful to the group. "Shit stirring" is not helpful. If someone said that in the past and they don't say it currently, if they have not uttered words of intolerance, then they currently have a place at DU. If they utter such things in the future, use the alert function and label it as a TOS violation. If the jury hides it, the MIRT will look at the poster's past. If they do not, the Admins will have a crack at it.

This is the process we have at DU to deal with these type of issues. We do not need people taking it upon themselves to call out DUers for any and all past mistakes. There is a process, please use that process.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #56)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:51 PM

58. "The process" doesn't work

Frequently.

Often, even.

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Response to Creideiki (Reply #58)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:58 PM

59. In your opinion. n/t

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Response to Fearless (Reply #59)

Tue May 1, 2012, 02:12 PM

63. Mine too, fwiw. There's a lot of history to be atoned for on DU. A lot.

DU3 is allowing some of these old problems to be discussed for the first time. In the past, mods were told to delete anything awkward or difficult, and LGBT posters on DU were accused of behaving badly when we spoke out against homophobia. There is a common false equivalency applied - gay posters are "just as bad" as the homophobes when we're rude. Never mind that one side has fewer rights than the other. As is typical when minority groups demand their rights, the minorities are blamed for "acting out."

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Response to yardwork (Reply #63)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:16 PM

67. Mine too, while we are at it.

Prism's OP has two very fair and honest questions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Prism asking those questions.

I wish the answers that the LGBT community of DU gives would be read by as many non-LGBT DU members as possible. Whether they think they know all about it or not, it would be one of the most educational threads they could ever read. It is VERY important for people to know WHY the pedophilia accusations are so damaging to the LGBT community. The only way we can dispel that kind of false statement against us is to point out that the facts do NOT support the pedophilia accusations AND that those types of false statements destroy LGBT lives.

Furthermore, I think it is important that this discussion happens and goes forward in the LGBT Group. Prism's posts in this thread are well within our SOP.


Statement of Purpose

A group for LGBT DUers and allies. All topics of interest to the LGBT community are welcome.



Being falsely accused of pedophilia merely for being gay is a topic that affects the LGBT community far too often.

If it was up to me, I would pin this thread so more people would be able to see it. They would know WHY it pisses us off when people make that false accusation and innuendos against the entire LGBT community.

Being gay does not equal being a pedophile. A simple trip to a dictionary would be a good idea for the people who make those claims.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #67)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:26 PM

70. My irritation with the post is not regarding the issues...

But because the person is using those issues to call out a poster who may or may not deserve it. I'm, personally, sick of seeing call out thread after call out thread. We're supposed to be adults. Criticize the issue, be critical of the stance, but leave the person alone. Half of the "drama" on DU would be gone, if not more, if people stuck to issues and didn't try to backhand people at the same time.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #70)

Wed May 2, 2012, 01:09 AM

74. Everyone over in H&M and everywhere else on DU has discussed this.

We have not discussed this here in the group yet. Everyone else has had their say in other parts of DU. We deserve a turn too, considering we are the ones who are actually affected by such misinformation and slanderous allegations as those hideous pedophilia comments.

It is perfectly reasonable and perfectly acceptable for members of the group to be pissed off by comments like those. This thread is giving members of the LGBT Group a chance to express WHY those types of comments harm us as individuals and as a community.

You say you are sick of call out threads. Well, I am sick of everyone else getting their say but when we try to express our opinions, we are told that we are being childish and told not mention the elephant in the room. The fact is that the poster in question DID make those comments about us. The fact is that the poster in question DID bring it up on DU. The poster, themselves, brought all this up then asked that others bring up more of his comments too, then got belligerent with anyone who did. On top of all that, the poster in question deleted the apology thread. Why? Deleting the other threads was understandable. Deleting the apology thread was retracting the apology along with any mention of the posts...effectively sweeping it all under the rug because it made so many people angry. Actions have consequences.

Prism is expressing what many feel about the comments. Prism has every right to be angry at the person who made those comments.

Also, saying that anyone, who mentions the poster who made those egregious comments about our community, is not being an adult... is out of line.

Why would you say something like that simply because you do not want anyone to mention the source of the pedophilia comments? If that is where the pedophilia comments came from, then that is where they came from. We are not dictators. We are hosts. Many in our community have been hurt by those comments, no matter how long ago they were made. If we cannot allow the members of the group to express how they feel about it, what good are we? We are not mods. This isn't DU2. No more sweeping it under the rug and telling the LGBT community to not talk about it when a poster on DU makes rude comments that have affected us directly. The poster in question didn't have to go drag those old comments over to DU, but the fact is, they did. When a person shines a bright spotlight on themselves like that, basically saying, 'Look over here. Look what I said,' they should not be surprised when people notice and have something to say about it.

1. The Jury results for the OP are posted in this very thread. The jury let it stand.
2. The OP fits the SOP of the LGBT Group.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #74)

Wed May 2, 2012, 01:26 AM

76. I understand the anger that this has created...

It is evident in H&M and here in LGBT.

I believe that discussion would be helpful. Constructive discussion.

What I see, IMHO, isn't discussion. It is anger. Anger at a DUer, anger at a phrase, etc. Is the anger justified? Yes. Should it be silenced? No, of course not. But is it constructive? No. It does not create a solution to the problem. IMHO it exacerbates the problem.

What I see is a lot of people being very angry about something that happened, and voicing that anger. I'm sure that's helpful to each individual person, to have their voice, and speak out against a statement. But again, it doesn't actually solve the problem.

Had we all stood up in one voice and said... This phrase is unacceptable, regardless of where it comes from. It is universally unacceptable. Here is why it is unacceptable. Here is why it is detrimental. And most importantly... Here is what we can do to combat it. (Yelling about it, isn't combating it. It is justifying it in the minds of those who speak it. They see us name calling and shouting and point and say... see told you so... these LGBTers are terrible people... and the rest of the homophobes nod in agreement.) That, I think would have been appropriate. Instead we have call-outs and rage.

So what can we do to combat it? We can talk about it. Talk. Not rant. Not speak with anger. Talk. Not talk about someone, but talk about an issue.

Anger has it's place and that place is when civilized discussion has failed. Not before it's attempted.

All of this is in my opinion only. Maybe surprisingly, but as a host I wouldn't lock this thread. I don't think it's against SOP. I just think it's not helping our cause to use anger first instead of reason.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #76)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:33 PM

89. Civilized discussion did fail

 

I'm not one for posting individual call out threads. You can check my DU history, and you'll find they just don't exist to any large degree. In fact, my call out is coming a few weeks after the initial reveal of the comments.

Why wait a couple weeks?

Because the source of the comments continues to lie about them, shift stories based on the audience, and not truly own up to the damage that sort of thing causes. I went the civilized discussion route. It did not change the behavior a single bit. Once I saw the explanation for the comment shift yet again ("I didn't really mean it", yeah, my patience came to an end.

Look, I appreciate a good scolding as much as the next person, but I feel your efforts are severely misdirected. Instead of expending this energy on me finally getting pissed enough over "gays can't be trusted with children" and posting a call out, maybe you can glance over at the person who said it and continues muddying the issue and telling lies.

I feel like that's a more deserving target for your chiding impulses here. JMHO.

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Response to Prism (Reply #89)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:04 PM

95. I wish to apologize to you for something

The way I stated what I did was very inappropriate. I had a very rough day yesterday... I received a rejection for a job I had interviewed for that I wanted and needed quite a bit. It isn't an excuse for how harshly I came across, but it is why it happened. I apologize for sounding unprofessional, uncivil, and disrespectful.

I have nothing but respect for you as a poster and for your opinions. On the issue you describe, I have had no contact with this person. I don't even know who they are. It would have been smart of me to ask follow up questions. I did not. And I apologize.

And, when discussing in this thread, I dropped pretenses as a host and for that I also apologize. You should be able to expect impartiality and reasoned forethought from your hosts, and I failed to do either. I do disagree with the idea of "call outs" being acceptable on DU3, perhaps to a fault. I apologize for that too.

Had I come across any of the lying that you have mentioned, I promise you that I would defend you from it in every way I possible could. That goes for all of the LGBTers and allies in this group. Never do I want to let anyone feel unsafe with or un-trusting of their hosts. I recognize that I have failed in this last night, and I will do everything in my power in the future to ensure that I don't forget these things again.

I am sorry and I regret disappointing you, the other members, and hosts.

Truly,
Fearless.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #95)

Thu May 3, 2012, 11:21 AM

102. Easily accepted

 

The topic itself is a bit dense and difficult to follow (I've been idly following it and feel as if half the story is missing somewhere in a few dozen threads that are squirreled away across several forums). It's just one of those red flags that lends itself far more to heat than light, and I know I've been falling more definitively on the side of heat there. Probably not the best reaction on my part.

I hope your week starts getting better. I'm with you on the job hunt. I've been trying to upgrade mine for awhile now, and it's all one can do to stop yourself from walking out into the middle of a field and screaming and screaming and screaming. Hang in there, guy.

With all the truly depressing things going on in this country, I think we can let this one slide into bygones =)

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Response to Prism (Reply #102)

Thu May 3, 2012, 11:53 AM

103. That's very gracious of you, Prism. I'm so happy that this is being worked out.

Many thanks to both of you for showing everybody how to work something out.

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Response to Prism (Reply #102)

Thu May 3, 2012, 09:15 PM

110. +1

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Response to Fearless (Reply #95)

Thu May 3, 2012, 09:22 PM

111. Thank you.

It is wonderful to see this. The tighter we stay with each other inside the group, the better we will be at educating others on the rest of DU and fighting the outright homophobic ones as well. Together we stand, divided we fall. So, this is particularly good to see.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #74)

Wed May 2, 2012, 07:37 PM

91. Very well said! Brava!

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Response to Fearless (Reply #70)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:01 PM

94. That poster brought the topic up, and he and you don't get to decide that it's run its course

certainly not in a couple of months --over behavior that lasted years.

That poster called himself out, he raised this issue and his own behavior as a discussion topic on DU, period, end of story.

I don't think he has even apologized for participating and apparently advocating for children to be kept away from gays.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #94)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:06 PM

96. I was unaware that this was the person that was being talked about...

If you would, see post #95... I've tried to correct a few things that I have said.

Seeing this as a continuation of that mess, I understand why it was posted and do not disagree with it.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #63)

Tue May 1, 2012, 11:19 PM

69. Does that not mean that the process is working on DU3? I'm confused.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #69)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:13 AM

71. Yes, you do seem to be confused.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #71)

Wed May 2, 2012, 12:48 AM

73. To backtrack...

1. Prism: "It wasn't said here on DU...But it was said by a poster on DU who is now the Pillar of the Community. Sick of it."

The statement was said in response to the OP in which Prism wrote about an incident involving a DUer on another site in 2004. Twice juries have seen this pronouncement as inappropriate... ie. calling out a DUer... "I have mentioned the poster by name and in context, twice, and both times the jury admonished me for the horror of it all."

2. I stated: ""Shit stirring" is not helpful. If someone said that in the past and they don't say it currently, if they have not uttered words of intolerance, then they currently have a place at DU. If they utter such things in the future, use the alert function and label it as a TOS violation. If the jury hides it, the MIRT will look at the poster's past. If they do not, the Admins will have a crack at it.

This is the process we have at DU to deal with these type of issues. We do not need people taking it upon themselves to call out DUers for any and all past mistakes. There is a process, please use that process."

I said this because of two factors. One because I'm tired of the "call out threads" regardless of who is doing/being called out. It is juvenile to attack people in lieu of discussing issues IMHO. Two, I mention it because, in the past the OP cites two instances where the jury has decided that the post was unacceptable. Posting it again, with the same agenda, but omitting the name of the person, is still fishing for the same end, again IMHO. I stated that we have a process to deal with DUers we don't like.

3. Creideiki stated: " "The process" doesn't work...Frequently. Often, even."

4. I stated, defending my previously mention position: "In your opinion. n/t"

5. Both you and Jamastiene reply. You stated: "DU3 is allowing some of these old problems to be discussed for the first time. In the past, mods were told to delete anything awkward or difficult, and LGBT posters on DU were accused of behaving badly when we spoke out against homophobia. There is a common false equivalency applied - gay posters are "just as bad" as the homophobes when we're rude. Never mind that one side has fewer rights than the other. As is typical when minority groups demand their rights, the minorities are blamed for "acting out."


------------------------


You're entitled to your words, but they don't address what I said. I never said ISSUES can't be discussed on DU3. Ever. I have never said that gay posters are "just as bad" when rude. I've only said that we should argue issues instead of backhanding people. Does bashing whoever this person is actually solve anything? It pushes them further into their perceived views. We don't even know if that is currently their views. Our evidence of this comes from a post in another forum in 2004 that isn't even cited! The OP even states that they are now considered a pilar of the DU community. Does this not mean that they haven't shown themselves to be a homophobe in their time here?

I put myself in this person's place... If I came across this thread and it was alluding to something I said eight years ago in another place, how would I react? I would be very hurt! I would feel judged, possible for a POV that I may not continue to hold. I would feel very negatively against the OP and those who tell them that I am unforgivable! Such a thing is very divisive! I might even feel, if I were putting myself in this person's place, that maybe LGBT people are bad people after all... (again I say this pretending to see it from their point of view, and do not at all believe this myself)... In the least, this sort of stuff would not help me be welcoming and loving of LGBT people, which is what I (as myself) think is what should be done. We should reach out and shine a light on ignorance and help people come around if they are willing to try.

I don't know this person. I don't even care who they are. It is immaterial. The fact is that the OP seems to have an agenda against someone, who is apparently in good standing on DU, based on a post in 2004 on another site by this person. I think this sort of thing, regardless of what the comment was, is inappropriate. Yes, it is my opinion. I believe we should debate issues. I believe the issue itself is worth debate. But I believe that the reason it was brought up was underhanded and inappropriate, that it is "shit-stirring".

Had the post been phrased in a positive way, I would be in full support of its discussion. Would I lock the thread? No. I think my duties as a host and my opinions as an observer can be different, and are in this case. My personal opinion is that the thread hurts the community because it shit stirs and could have been posted differently. My host's opinion is that the discussion is well within the confines of the SOP and that it should be just fine. If there are problems with replies, they should be alerted on.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #73)

Wed May 2, 2012, 07:31 AM

79. Backtrack?

But I thought you don't like to revisit old issues?

Or is it that you only like to revisit old issues when you think that you're aggrieved.

Thank Goddess that we have you as a "host". What ever would we do without you. Maybe we should start a new group: "Fearless and his/her homophobic friends."

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Response to Creideiki (Reply #79)

Wed May 2, 2012, 10:35 AM

88. Please stop. The personal attacks are not necessary or helpful.

It's good to know though, that I must be a terrible person because I disagree with you on something.

Have a nice day.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #88)

Wed May 2, 2012, 07:33 PM

90. You first.

Have as good a day as you deserve.

No, I wouldn't wish that on the people around you.

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Response to Creideiki (Reply #90)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:32 PM

93. At no point have I attacked you or anyone.

Last edited Wed May 2, 2012, 09:07 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm sorry that you feel that I have attacked you. I have disagreed with you, yes. But I have no desire to attack, provoke attack, or anything else that is malicious. We each have differing opinions and I doubt there is anything we can do to change each other's minds.

That said, I still wish you have a truly nice day!



EDIT TO ADD: Please see post #95 for a few things I wanted to correct about what I said yesterday.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #63)

Fri May 4, 2012, 09:42 AM

116. Mine Too

Until and unless the person does one hell of a better job apologizing. Here.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:17 AM

9. A regular poster here @ DU

posted the' gay= pedophile' sentiment at FreeRepublic, where he has also been a regular poster.

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Response to Vanje (Reply #9)

Tue May 1, 2012, 12:03 AM

60. Was a regular poster at FR.

 

IIRC, he got banned from FR a couple years ago.

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Response to Prism (Original post)


Response to Zorra (Reply #23)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:32 AM

31. Zorra, you place a huge IF right there. IF they apologize and demonstrate honesty.

 

The guy you are defending has not done those things. To me, personally. He lied to me, slandered me using those lies as a platform, and claimed that he'd supported full equality "For Decades" when less than 5 years prior he was typing what even you call wrong, horrible, sickening, disgusting hate speech against us all around the internet.
So there's your 'IF' and that IF has not gotten answered. So what is your method for dealing with unrepentant liars who refuse to own what they said and did, much less to seek amends? Because those are the standards that appy here. You may not like it, but that's the fact. If? Sure. But what if not?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #31)


Response to Zorra (Reply #54)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 05:56 PM

57. I do, Zorra, have pretty much the same code as you. I am at the

 

'in the future these conditions are violated, all bets are off, and I am done.'
That is what happened here. You do not have any integrity, you are buying a liar's lies and allowing others, innocent others to pay that price. that is not part of my code, Zorra. I mean, if you can judge that your conditions were in violated and calloff all bets, so can others. To grant that to yourself and not to others is hypocritical.
That guy lied to me, slandered me, slandered our community and when confroted with it he ran away and refused to apologize. So he did not do that to you. Your code says stand with him. Go do so. I do not dig liars, nor agents to liars, nor liar's lawyers. That's my code. Sell me a lie, I say goodbye. Goodbye.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #57)


Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #57)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:22 PM

122. Blue, I think that you are letting an outsider divide you from brothers and sisters.

It's wrong of us to let an outsider cause us to turn on one another. Please reconsider your words. They are unnecessarily harsh imo. A lot of us are very upset, but please, let's not let that turn us against one another.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #31)


Response to Zorra (Reply #75)

Wed May 2, 2012, 10:21 PM

98. Ahhh yes, but NOW he says he really didn't mean those bigoted things he said.

So which is it?

He meant the bigoted things he said in 2004 but was mis-informed? (per the apology you cite).


Or

He didn't really hold those beliefs but apologized anyway?

I've tried to explain and apologize for the few Free Republic posts that have shown up. They were all posted from 6-10 years ago, and not on DU. They don't represent my thinking, and actually didn't represent it at the time, but there's no way to explain them. So, I apologize for them, and regret that I ever wrote them. That's genuine.


He speaks with forked tongue.

Was he lying in the "apology"? Or is he lying now when he says the words actually didn't "represent my thinking"?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #98)


Response to Zorra (Reply #100)

Thu May 3, 2012, 10:50 AM

101. The duplicity hasn't stopped. THAT'S the point.

How can one apologize for a mistaken belief and then, only a matter of days latter in front of a different audience, say, well, I never REALLY had those mistaken beliefs? That completely invalidates the apology for mistaken beliefs, doesn't it?

"I choose to believe"

Well that's your right, isn't it.

Here's the deal, as far as I'm concerend... I've had plenty of friends who, before I came out, said (or thought?) insensitive things about gay people. But NONE of them went out of their way to spread hate and, as in the case of our mutual "friend", hang out on a hate-site throwing red meat to fellow bigots. They wouldn't be my friends if they did. This guy in the OP was a leader of the pack - at the front of the crowd that is never more than a couple steps away from violence.

Our "friend" reminds me of a guy I used to know. He was a friend of Friends - we hung out a lot at the same parties etc. Back in '94 when they executed John Wayne Gacy here in Illinois I remember an incident that turned out to be foreshadowing. I should preface this by saying I've always been a Democrat and I've always been against the death penalty ... just not so outspoken as I am among people I know and love. Anyway, we were all at a "party" at our local hang out (friend's house) when this friend and his other friend I wasn't very well acquainted with started packing up to leave. I inquired as to their destination and why they were leaving so early. They had important business to attend to half way across the state. They were on their way to Joliet (IIRC) to stand outside the prison in support of the execution of Gacy. Hmm that's odd, I thought.

Several hours passed when my "friends" returned all full of piss and vinegar. Excited. Why? Because they spent the evening taunting the candle-light vigil people with chants like "strap the clown down!!" (Gacy was a clown). What an odd thing to do, I thought. I mean, I was no fan of Gacy (I knew one of the families) and my opposition was yet un-explored in my own philosophy (I just knew I was against it) so I wasn't going to hold a candle-light vigil. But to take time out of your life to chant and taunt other people in the middle of the night along side a highway outside a prison? Sick.

Fast forward several years. I come out of the closet as gay. My chanting "friend" comes out of the closet as a loud-mouthed tea-bagging bigot and homophobe.

I guess my point is, there are "thinkers" and there are "doers". I can excuse, much easier, someone who "held mistaken beliefs" much easier than someone who acted on them. And yes, I consider joining a hate site and stirring up the pigs acting. And if you have acted on those beliefs, your apology better fucking be bullet-poof. Not some mealy mouthed back-track a week later in front of a different set of eyes.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #101)


Response to Zorra (Reply #106)

Thu May 3, 2012, 10:37 PM

113. Well, I think that coming into our group and posting an OP that suggested we lie and confuse voters

Last edited Thu May 3, 2012, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

as a way to keep Minnesota from passing an anti-gay constitutional amendment, was a very strange and insulting thing to do.

The poster deleted his OP after several posts in the thread. Was this anti-LGBT? At the very least it appeared to be an example of "gaming."

Edited to add, check out Puglover's post below: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1137&pid=11002

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #101)

Fri May 4, 2012, 06:41 PM

123. Haven't read your reply yet, but yes, this:

I guess my point is, there are "thinkers" and there are "doers". I can excuse, much easier, someone who "held mistaken beliefs" much easier than someone who acted on them. And yes, I consider joining a hate site and stirring up the pigs acting. And if you have acted on those beliefs, your apology better fucking be bullet-poof. Not some mealy mouthed back-track a week later in front of a different set of eyes.


When he did it, per his words, he helped Democrats being elected for 39 years (since 1965.) Then he went to the dark side and empowered them with vileness in about 20,000 posts to educate them. I'm no psychologist, but then, I probably don't have to be one to just wonder ...

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:11 AM

24. I can see only one construct where that statement is acceptable

that would be it is never acceptable to say that gays can't be trusted with children. That said, I don't think any statement is truly unforgiveable. For all I know my own mom likely believed that non sense for much of her life, though she didn't say it, but she later became a great supporter of mine. People's views can change but I would want to see real amends, not just an apology, before I forgave that statement. Real amends means that you show in actions that you no longer believe that statement.

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Response to dsc (Reply #24)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:30 AM

30. What kind of real amends would you recommend?

 

What would you ask of someone genuinely seeking absolution?

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Response to Prism (Reply #30)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 03:12 PM

52. If they have kids

did they let their kids be watched, or taught by a gay or lesbian? If they don't, did they publicly advocate to someone else who said that gays shouldn't be trusted with children that they were wrong.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:21 AM

28. Jury results:

Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message
At Mon Apr 30, 2012, 09:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

"Gays can't be trusted with children"

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

While I appreciate the poster's frustration, starting a thread anywhere but H&M to "call out" another DUer is inappropriate -- and that's just what this post is.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:00 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This seems ok to ask in this group.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Does not promote homophobia. Asks for a discussion. That being said, I detest the way this back and forth has been going on between two DUers. Ignore is your friend.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Enough of the shit-stirring. This poster just had a similar post locked in H
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: I see this as an "are you still beating your wife?" topic not
worthy of discussion as it is framed. HIDE IT
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I see the alerter's point, but I think falls under the purview of the group hosts. The poster indicated a desire to discuss the topic specifically with users of the LGBT Group. If the hosts deem this inappropriate, they can lock it.

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Response to Ptah (Reply #28)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:23 AM

29. Someone doesn't want this discussed

 

Third time's the charm, though.

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Response to Prism (Reply #29)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:56 AM

33. well, I am uninclined to lock this thread

Other hosts' mileage may vary, but I think if we don't hash this all the way out it'll keep coming up. I'd rather have it all in the open and eventually done with.

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:59 AM

34. I'm still furious about it

 

Two or so weeks later, I can't see a thread involving that meta that doesn't leave me seeing red. If I can't hash it out elsewhere, I'd like to know I can do so here.

So, I thank you and the other hosts for the opportunity and tolerance.

I'm just so pissed this poison is allowed to infiltrate DU.

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Response to Prism (Reply #34)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:12 AM

35. I also have no problem with a discussion here.

Edit: Had I been on the jury on your prior OP in H & M I would have voted to Leave It but your jury voted to Hide. Three of those jurors voted to Hide because they mistakenly believe that call outs are not allowed on DU3 and the Alerter's entire comment was "call out".

It was just the luck of the jury draw.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #35)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:29 PM

47. Luck of the draw, yes. Also, this is in my opinion a round in the game. So luck+agenda+

 

apathy. That's the point of using a stir stick and then deleting your stir stick and giving an impression of confession while refusing to admit to lies brought to the table with full evidence. That's the point of the lies in the first place. I mean, let's face it, a great deal of effort went into dragging that material frm there to here. How many threads asking for that? More than one. Periodical. Finally some did so, which meant now that hate speech could get OP status on DU, framed as a confessional. All those hateful words were indeed posted on DU. And what followed was not a full confession, it was another Vaudevill routine. Some of us brought to him specific and exact lies he told to us, and things he said to us standing on those lies. If it was a confession, those he wronged rightfully expected admission and some serious apology. That was not what happened. He started 'self deleting' and declaring that 'a short list of DUers' was now on ignore, for he had come clean and it was time to move on. Except of course he did no such thing as come clean. He set bait. And now those who speak the truth of him, all of it clearly proven and easily proven again with DU links, are getting criticized and posts hidden. Gay people. Uh huh. Funny how that comes full circle. Transparent as hell if you ask me.
Prisim is doing a community service in the telling of the truth and demanding that the community deal with this. I for one came to DU for the differences, not the similarities to other political sites. If this is just another free for all mendacity and games fest, that's not to my liking, and if it was I'd not care to do that using the Democratic Party, the President, and the good of the nation as a facade for petty games and cheap thrills.
I'm finding the affectation of political purpose here almost as cloying as the celebration and endorsement of interpersonal dishonesty on DU.
Things to do today.....

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #33)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:55 AM

44. After discussing it with the OP, I agree with your assessment. Not that my opinion counts, I am not

a host here, that's strictly moral support.

This does need to be hashed, particularly since there was no apology (as I was mistakenly led to believe, initially).

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #33)

Tue May 1, 2012, 10:40 PM

68. Even if asked, I could not bring myself to lock this thread.

No one has asked. If the majority of the other hosts decided they wanted to lock it, I would be one of the ones voting in the minority.

Why?
This issue...this slanderous false innuendo against the LGBT community...DOES need to be discussed. The anger, frustration, hurt, and harmful effects of those types of blanket statements about our community DOES need to be expressed...by members of our community.

Those who do not understand WHY is harms our community need a reference point to see HOW it harms out community. The replies in this thread are very valuable in educating those who do not understand why we have a problem with the assumption that gay people would hurt children.




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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #68)

Wed May 2, 2012, 06:25 AM

78. +1 n/t

 

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:26 AM

36. I have been going through a personal tragedy recently

Is why I have not been around for awhile.

H&M has become a cesspool, members and Administrators alike have let it become that way. "Gays can't be trusted with children" is such a vile statement there is no atoning for it.

The veiled homophobia that gets a pass here is despicable. To some it's nothing but a joke, to others it's nothing but bullying and to others it's a death sentence.

A very wise lady passed recently, she will be missed a strong supporter of our community.

Some posts that get hidden here over others that are allowed to stand is a travesty of justice. I don't know how some people can sleep at night.

I will say this no matter haw hard someone tries to spout homophobia veiled or otherwise, no matter how how much someone tries to bully a Gay person, no matter how much you try to throw us under the bus for equal rights, you are going to lose.

Diversity is a rainbow and it takes many colors to make a rainbow. You can either glow in it's brightness or wither your own darkness.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:30 AM

37. Sorry to hear things are rough over there, Bill



If you need a shoulder or a buddy, you've got my cell #. Don't be afraid to use it. The rest of us can keep an eye on the discussion. Y'all take care down there.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:35 AM

38. It's not real to some people

 

The thing I see repeatedly in these topics is straight people rushing to absolve other straight people for what is said about the LGBT community. And what liberals should know, what should be good old-fashioned Democratic common sense, is that it is not up to the privileged to absolve the other privileged of their sins.

If a straight person calls someone a fag and then says sorry, it's not up to other straight people to determine whether or not that person is forgiven for it. That is the definition of privilege - to leave the minority out of the considered equation.

And yet, again and again and again, we see the privileged acquitting the other privileged for their crimes. A jury of one's peers, indeed.

I actually like the current system quite a bit more. More trolls are given the heave ho, more nonsense is being called out, but you have to tread with care. In calling out this homophobia and my nonforgiveness of it, I've been jury hidden twice. Only this thread stuck. And I've been getting admonished as if it's some petty board war, a little spat, some personal difference.

Not homophobia. Not vile, poisonous rhetoric. No, no. A personal difference. That's all.

That's the viewpoint of the privileged, not the affected, and that is something DU needs a lot of work on, after all these years.

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Response to Prism (Reply #38)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:53 AM

43. Perfect...

It just pisses the bjesus out of me when someone/anyone else forgives a homophob on my behalf.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:46 AM

41. I noticed you were not around and missed you.

Sorry to hear about your loss and all that you have been dealing with.

A for you.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:56 AM

45. Sorry for your loss.

I've been going to too many funerals this year, myself.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 12:52 PM

48. Hope everything is working out for you.

 

Contact me if there's anything.

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Response to William769 (Reply #36)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 02:33 PM

49. I'm sorry for your loss.

I hope she had a safe passage and may be free from suffering. Peace and comfort to you and yours.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:41 AM

39. I'm not gay and don't have children but that stament drives me to distraction, if not rage

It is beyond idiotic and revealing of the world view and experience of the originator. I've heard it said in various forms by many authoritarian/ RW types over the years.

It shows their ignorance and bias about what it means to be gay. How many times have you heard someone equate being gay with being a pedophile or child molester? It's an equivalence that has no bearing in reality. Being gay has almost nothing to do with sex.

I know more than a few "straight people" who are not competent or supportive parents and even more "gay" parents that break their backs to provide the most supportive and nurturing environment for children.

How damaging is that statement? I guess it depends on how seriously you consider the idea and the source. I will admit that the effect is much worse than I would hope for but the upside is that those of us old farts like me won't be around much longer.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 02:44 PM

50. I think my stance on this issue is clear

and can be read in H&M. While I do believe that people can be transformed through change, it's hard for me to accept this utter BS behavior from someone who's even a tad more older than me, claims to be politically active before I was born and indulged just a few simple years ago (you know, they go a lot faster the older you get,) in empowering the dark side to it's best.

For me, there has nothing to be forgiven, because any hint of the tiniest trust is damaged, if it was existing to begin with. To even bring the issue up here and quote yourself (highly regretting,) tainting this website with venom; what the hell is the point of that? The poster in discussion probably felt like standing before the Nuremberg trial, and why not. "I was young, I was stupid" just doesn't apply.

He probably never witnessed the harm he has done from looking up from the keyboard, but it was done. Like I said, if he, under the delusion of 'trolling' for doing the liberal movement a favor, got only one of these loonies to beat up anyone that he targeted, there's not much to forgive. There might be therapy available, though.

Thanks for your post in H&M. I'm glad there's the 'Show' button.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #50)

Wed May 2, 2012, 10:28 AM

87. You and I feel exactly the same way.

This poster is not a supporter of our community, no matter how many times he spouts that he is.

Remember the Mending Fences thread over at DU2? He was one of the first people to respond. With nasty snark like "I find it odd that you posted this and so far no one has really responded to it." That isn't a verbatim quote but close. A passive aggressive way of saying "you have extended your hand where are all these troublemakers?" Skinner actually responded to him with a request to not derail the thread because he wanted to have the discussion. Unfortunatly that sub thread is now deleted.

So to all of the folks taking this poster at his word, the kindest thing I can say is, you are naive.

If you take the time to read through those disgusting threads from H and M he never apologized. He put myself, CMW and others on ignore inferring we were the ones causing the trouble.

Although I have never been a prolific poster I have really cut back. The fact that he is a welcomed poster on DU is disgusting. And the fact that he has defenders in THIS forum is simply unbelievable.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #87)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:31 PM

92. I had totally forgotten that, Puglover! He was the first to respond to the Mending Fences thread

and he posted a nasty comment that Skinner deleted, I believe, and then Skinner locked him out of the thread, along with some others who were there only to disrupt and perpetuate nasty slander about LGBT posters.

Totally forgotten that. So, in fact, his record on DU is not clean, as he's claimed. His record on DU does not demonstrate steadfast support for LGBT people.

Very interesting.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #92)

Thu May 3, 2012, 06:39 PM

109. His record was never clean.

When he first showed up on DU, he was easily seen as far-right of the center of the Democratic party. He had serious problems with race, didn't really know what bigotry means and heck was sure in no way a stench supporter of LGBT as he now claims to be.

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm just too radical, but my political/human/compassionate stand was made when I was around fifteen, and I haven't escaped it at all (I got a bit more tolerant over the time I have to admit.) He still changes a lot around IMHO, which would sure give me constant dizziness.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #109)

Thu May 3, 2012, 10:10 PM

112. The first time I noticed him he was defending BP after the oil disaster. I remember that too.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #87)

Thu May 3, 2012, 06:31 PM

108. Ooops, I'm being late again.

He's now a 'Socialist,' you know. A superhero of liberal issues. A Captain MineralMan! http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=86027 (Did he mention that he supports Human rights in general? I just wonder what the specific exceptions are - hey, he started with being 'philosophical.' In Philosophy, 'in general' means that there are at least a thousand exceptions, and a million of metaphysical ones.) "In general, I like black people, but I also liked the separated drinking fountains." Give me a break.

I stand by my opinion, and I stand strongly by it. The day he'll be banned, might be the day a few other good regular posters will come back and might - might - enjoy DU3 from anew.

I fully agree with all what you've said.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 02:45 PM

51. The statement is the equal of the libel known as the Blood Libel...

 

nt

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 03:26 PM

53. them's fighting words

I don't think you can slide much further down the slander scale. Apologies? After a remark like that, I am no longer listening. forgive my enemy? not in this lifetime.

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Response to mitchtv (Reply #53)

Wed May 2, 2012, 09:24 PM

97. Maybe I overlooked it, but did he ask for anyone's forgiveness?

or was it pure rationalization?

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon Apr 30, 2012, 03:57 PM

55. Tell that asshole to tell the 16 year old that lives with my partner and I

that we can't be trusted....

She'll look at whoever it was and tell them "whatever"....

My partner's niece moved in with us after she became an orphan in rags at 12 and was living in desperate squaller in another city..

Now, she is on the honor role taking honors classes at her Arts high school. Sings in a Gospel Choir and Community Youth Choir...

That success was due because my partner and I NEVER GAVE UP ON HER.

I suggest you think twice about reposting stupid shit people say about gay people in a LGBT forum...


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Response to Prism (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 03:14 AM

62. The big picture is, I guess, it's sort of "understandable" since....

 

.... non-lgbts tend to think of us as purely sexual beings ( when they bother to think about us at all). I.E. we don't have ethics, morals, normal anxieties --- we don't think about paying the rent, how to take care of our aging parents, etc.

In other words we're one dimensional . Defined by our sexual orientation and therefore concerned only with sex.

It's not totally dissimilar to the business about military people sharing close quarters w. lgbts and this being the rationale for keeping us "out". As though we just can't seem to think about anything else. And are completely indiscriminate in our attractions.



The not-so-big picture is I don't blame lgbt people for getting pissed off by it. ( To be clear: I'm not excusing the above; merely trying to *understand* it.)

I've been working w. kids for thirty years. Last year, a parent of a kid in my class got it in her head that he was somehow being sexually molested in the bathrooms on a regular basis. She never accused or even implied that it was me, but she was absolutely *insistent* that "something" was "going on" in the bathroom. I'm not sure how she got that way but I suspect it was from schmoozing with the school "support staff" ... i.e. the security and other people who are always hanging out around the main entrance. I've been increasingly political the last few years on lgbt issues to the point where *everyone* in the building knows. And some are, of course, annoyed by the politics of it and my persistence.

So.... that's probably where it came from. Eventually the parent calmed down and the kid is in my class again this year.I can't really explain it.

There's a lot of things I can't explain.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 02:48 PM

64. It is extreamly damaging and hurtful

That said, I was a self hating gay woman and, while I shudder to recall how brainwashed, a self-identified 'fiscal' puke at one point in my life. I can personally understand how someone can make an about face as I was basically raised to hate myself.

For every idiotic and inflammatory thing I have ever said if I could do it again differently I would in a heartbeat and if someone found a statement of mine like that then I sure as hell would own up to it and apologise. I can understand wanting something that vile swept under the rug but if a person wanted that part of their life to vanish they would have made it impossible to trace back. So own up and apologise, lay all cards on the table and I'd accept and if they didn't I'd have to assume they still felt that way.

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Response to Veruca Salt (Reply #64)

Tue May 1, 2012, 05:33 PM

65. That last part is what I keep saying here:

 

"So own up and apologise, lay all cards on the table and I'd accept and if they didn't I'd have to assume they still felt that way."

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Tue May 1, 2012, 09:21 PM

66. It is THE single WORST thing that some people say about gay people.

It is not based in fact at all. It automatically accuses us of pedophilia just because we are gay. It is the single MOST damaging and hateful thing some people say about gay people. Any gay person who gets targeted after someone around them makes a horrid statement like that should have a right to sue for slander.

For those who don't know the difference, crack a damn dictionary open and read, then go look at the actual facts about pedophilia. Gay people are LESS likely to be pedophiles. The most common pedophiles are married straight men.

It infuriates me.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 01:42 AM

77. Of course it is damaging, shows the most egregious kind of ignorance.

I once heard someone say that. It was after an AA meeting when a long-time member I'd just met said that he's an AA sponsor and some of his sponsees are gay, but that's fine, since he doesn't let them near his children. I really could not believe what I'd just heard! I tried to calmly explain to him exactly how wrong he was, and why, and without using the word "ignorant," but it was difficult to get over the shock of hearing somebody actually say such an ignorant and misguided thing...

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Wed May 2, 2012, 08:41 AM

80. A well-loved and long-time lesbian Boy Scout leader was recently fired

It was all over the news.

LESBIAN. BOY Scouts.

It's not even a rational bigotry, is it?

It is appalling this happened to this woman, and attitudes and statements like the one in Prism's OP shows how relevant and dangerous such "values" are.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #80)

Wed May 2, 2012, 11:38 PM

99. The scout leaders that molest the little kids always seem to be self-identified heterosexual males

who are often married.

That doesn't make a lick of sense, that firing, except for the fact that the BSA is a bigoted organization when it comes to gay people. In that context, it makes sense, even though it is wrong.

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Response to MADem (Reply #99)

Thu May 3, 2012, 11:55 AM

104. Apparently the scout leader reported financial improprieties up the line. That's when she was fired.

The excuse that she was a lesbian was used, because the BSA has a bigoted employment structure. However, she was openly lesbian and they had known about it for years. It only became an "issue" when they wanted to fire her for being a whistleblower. This is a perfect example of how these laws are used against us everyday.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #104)

Thu May 3, 2012, 12:59 PM

105. Shameful. Blatant, too.

I wonder if she can get any redress? If not from an "equality" perspective, from a "whistleblower" perspective?

BSA does have a 'federal' nexus--they get a lot of help from the federal government--they provide them facilities on military bases for camping and other get-togethers, on a fairly regular basis, for example.

And of course, there's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Support_from_federal_government

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Thu May 3, 2012, 03:58 PM

107. Personally, I would henceforth excise that person from my life.

 

Overlooking only for those who are family - and even then, only maybe.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Thu May 3, 2012, 10:40 PM

114. Prism, my opinion on this matter has changed as a result of the dismissive attitude on the part

of too many straight DUers. At first, I was inclined to let this go. I tried to stay out of threads and not take a strong position.

In the past couple days I have become angry by the dismissive attitude of way too many people on DU toward some very real concerns being raised by LGBT posters. We're being told to shut up and sit down.

I don't like that, and it's radicalized me on this subject. Thank you for this thread, which has been very illuminating in a lot of ways. I hope that other DUers will find their way over here to read the many thoughtful posts here.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 01:16 AM

115. I'm done.

I am just so tired of being subtly and directly attacked in this thread because of my opinions.

Apparently, judging from the posts in this thread, I am one of very few members of this community that believe that the person in question may have had a change of heart and should be given a chance to make reparations.

I have my deleted all of my posts in this thread. It was very clear that they upset a substantil number of members in this community.

I'm very sorry for offending so many of you. The intentions behind the thoughts and words that I had posted were completely genuine, and sincerely rooted in compassion.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #115)

Fri May 4, 2012, 11:04 AM

117. I'm sorry that you deleted your posts. I thought we were having a good conversation.

I certainly didn't intent to attack you, and I am not offended by anything your wrote. Quite the opposite. I did answer a question you posed upthread, which I thought was a good question.

Forgiveness and compassion are always stronger than the alternative. I respect you for that.

What seems to be happening here is that the person in question keeps posting things that add fuel to the fire. This is making more and more people irritated. Also, we have a situation where LGBT people seem to be being told by the majority culture to sit down and shut up (again) and that is making some of us furious. My anger is not directed at you or any other people in this group, however.

I hope that you will reconsider. We need your voice.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #117)

Fri May 4, 2012, 04:57 PM

119. I'm so sorry, yardwork. Nothing you've posted had any relation to my being "done",

and that last post was not directed at you in any way whatsoever.

It was just a case of bad timing on my part that may have made it seem that way.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #115)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:34 PM

120. I'm sorry to see that you've deleted your posts.

Yes, I'm sure not friends of the person in question here, and this irks me even more to see how it divides. I just hope you didn't feel, subtly or even much worse directly attacked by me because of my opinion or opinions shared with others in this thread here.

I won't/can't change my opinion, but I can be fully honest. I've asked for reparations and got another lecture, sometimes just a copy&paste from a previous post without any compassion, without even respecting or answering my questions. I was then put on ignore which is lifted from time to time when the urge to know what I've posted becomes too overwhelming. Then I get another lecture. At least I think I'm off ignore right now for the time being. The number went down.

I deeply respect your compassion and I apologize if I indirectly fueled your discomfort about this situation.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #120)

Fri May 4, 2012, 05:55 PM

121. I could'nt have said it any better.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #120)

Mon May 7, 2012, 12:27 PM

143. Honestly, Call Me Wesley, and Puglover,

Last edited Mon May 7, 2012, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)

I was feeling that way, as one of very few posters on this thread with a compassionate and forgiving POV on this situation.

This mindset appears to be in the extreme minority here, judging by the posts on this thread, and I believed that my alternative mindset was causing offense to many people that I had no intention of offending.

I feel a lot better now that I know that I was mistaken, at least probably in most cases.

As a vocal and visible advocate for our rights, my primary intent here is to always do everything I can to ethically obtain these basic human rights that we are unjustly denied and which we deserve immediately.

So no problem, I'm relieved, and glad that you understand where I am coming from.

I have not changed my opinion on this issue either, but I feel it is better that I not express it here in this thread, because I don't want don't want to have my words be mistakenly interpreted by anyone as some sort of defense of homophobia or homophobes.

Thanks to the both of you. Were all in this together.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Fri May 4, 2012, 04:36 PM

118. This needs a sincere apology with acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

 

Nothing less is enough.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #118)

Fri May 4, 2012, 10:02 PM

124. Agreed - should be posted in this group too, thats the minimum

Personally if it were up to me, anyone spouting hate at minorities, while being a member here, even on a different site, would be PPRed. I have a huge issue with the new community standards approach to dealing with some things (after all community standards have passed 33 constitutional amendments against our families.)

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:28 PM

125. I apologize abjectly.

I did write that, although not in those exact words. I was very wrong to do so, and it is not true. What I wrote was based on incorrect information. I no longer believe that in any way. After writing that, a number of years ago, I learned the actual facts of the matter. I learned that there is no connection between orientation and the likelihood that someone is likely to desire sex with underaged people.

Knowing that, I'm ashamed that I once thought otherwise, and wrote what I wrote. Since the time I wrote that, I've gotten a thorough education on the subject, thanks to some very kind LGBT people I've met. I was wrong. I am very sorry that I ever said such a thing. Since I learned the truth, I have come a long way in my understanding of LGBT issues. I'm in full support of erasing any prejudices against LGBT people. I'm actively working for marriage equality in Minnesota, where a constitutional amendment is going to come up for a vote in November. I've posted a call to other DFLers to work against this amendment on the web site of the DFL precinct where I am the chair. A link to that call is in my signature line.

I cannot delete the post on Free Republic. I was banned there in 2006 as an anti-freeper. If I could delete it, I would. I kept the same screen name I used there, knowing that people would find the things I wrote there. I'm not anonymous, and my real identity can be found at the links in my signature line.

I won't ask for forgiveness for what I wrote. I will say that I would never say anything of that nature again. I was misinformed. I am not misinformed any longer. I am sorry that I wrote that and know that it was hurtful and damaging.

I normally do not post in this group. I still won't, because I know that many here don't want to see my face, and I understand that. I'd probably feel the same way. I will never say anything of the sort again, because I don't believe anything of the sort.

I apologize. I deeply regret my ignorance and my words that were based on that ignorance. I was woefully mistaken, and regret that very much.

You can count on my wholehearted support for LGBT rights issues, for marriage equality, and you can count on me not to say such things now or in the future.

I ask for your understanding, if not your forgiveness. I can't ask for that forgiveness. I can only try to demonstrate my good faith now and in the future.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #125)

Sat May 5, 2012, 09:41 PM

126. "What I wrote was based on incorrect information"

"I learned that there is no connection between orientation and the likelihood that someone is likely to desire sex with underaged people."

This was well-known before late 2005/early 2006.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #126)

Sun May 6, 2012, 09:20 AM

127. I didn't know it.

I should have, but didn't.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #127)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:11 AM

128. Why Conservatives Believe in Anti-Gay Pseudo-Science- from Alternet

 

"The anti-gay-rights movement's claims about homosexuality are based on the worst kind of junk "science."

http://www.alternet.org/news/155260/why_conservatives_believe_in_anti-gay_pseudo-science/

And of course your post did not address the dishonesty which you approached these issues and the people who advocate for them here on DU, not many years ago elsewhere, last year, here on DU. You told me that you'd supported full equality 'for Decades' and when I doubted your honesty you berated me, and suggested that I held incorrect opinions due to YOUR sexuality, when in fact I was simply seeing the truth and pointing it out. Not 'for decades' not even for half of one. Not full equality with unflagging support, in actuality slanders, lies of the worst kind and utter ignorance.
And it is not just that you foisted duplicity here on DU to polish your own image, it is also that you took those duplicities and used them to speak with disrespect and ongoing dishonesty to gay posters on DU, many of us, and me in specific, I speak for myself when I say you lied to me, you misused me in order to sell a fake back story for your posts. And sir, when confronted with those facts in the context of one of your other 'confessional posts' you did not admit, did not recant, did not explain, nor did you apologize for those lies and insults and lectures delivered from not just a high horse, a stolen high horse.
So man, this is stuff you did to other real people, things you said that were simply not true, and you used those falsehoods to characterize others falsely which is another lie. You also argued for delay of equality, and attempted to do so using a mask of the true supporter. "For Decades." "Unflaggingly".
It is what it is. So dishonest. So directly mendacious and harmful. The fact that you felt impunity to lie in your communications with gay people on DU sort of shows that your lack of actual respect was ongoing and unchanged.
You as an individual lied to me, another individual, and you used those lies to falsely characterize yourself and far worse, to falsely characterize me and others.
This is not the fist time I have brought all of this to you. Here it is again. You know that what I am saying is factual. I can drag the links here again, to your own posts if you'd like to make an issue of that.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #128)

Sun May 6, 2012, 06:06 PM

133. I Am, Without A Doubt.....


In Love With You......


Your post is fucking GOLDEN!


Which has been met with the sound of crickets, I might add......


It's hilarious that "righteous stick" (I'm a long time supporter, who the hell are you) has been taken away from him, and used to thump him soundly, and "publicly"..... It just doesn't get better.....


Some will hate you publicly... while others smile, and hate you privately..... but never confuse the fact, that both groups despise you with equal intensity....


As Bigotry Is Indeed, A Lifestyle Choice….. (a quote I lifted from another wise DU poster)


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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #128)

Sun May 6, 2012, 06:54 PM

134. I can only repeat what I've said upthread.

(It's late here.)

Faith, if there ever was one (there wasn't,) has been broken.

If it means anything to you, I do stand with you. I do not know why someone who 'doesn't post here' needs top rack up post-count with copy&paste-jobs.

The poster in question might have campaigned for Democrats. He might have so since 1965. He might do so now. He might regret stabbing all of his ideas in the back from a few years ago. He might regret campaigning for Democrats in a few years, who knows.

I'm 46 years old. My political views were settled when I was fifteen. I stuck to it. I stick to it now. I have never, ever, posted anything like that to empower some idiot to go out and harm people given the worst outcome. I did not poke them, I did not engage them on their level. I fought against them.

Giving the poster in question a platform here is wrong.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #134)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:16 PM

136. +1

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #125)

Sun May 6, 2012, 12:54 PM

129. "I cannot delete the post on Free Republic."

 

Post? Surely you meant posts, plural. It wasn't a single awful post but several ones that you made.

And for the record, before this whole thing was revealed I only found you annoying, which is not a big deal in my book, so this is not a personal vendetta.

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Response to Shining Jack (Reply #129)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:02 PM

130. Yes, posts.

I used the singular in this thread, but yes, I would delete all of those posts if I could. And I apologize for them.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #130)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:05 PM

131. Out of curiosity

What caused your political transformation from Freeper to DUer, so to speak?

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #131)

Sun May 6, 2012, 01:33 PM

132. I wasn't a freeper. I was poking at freepers.

In doing that, I wrote a few things I'm ashamed of having written. At the same time, I was campaigning for Democrats. The post referred to in this thread was based on incorrect information, which I learned was incorrect.

My only goal in this thread is to apologize, not to justify or anything else. I am, simply, very sorry that I caused harm with my words. Very sorry. I'm working to correct that harm, by supporting LGBT rights in all areas. I cannot replay and alter the past, I can only move ahead. I do not want to intrude into this safe haven group. I just wanted to post my apology here. You'll find my posts mostly in GD.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #132)

Sun May 6, 2012, 07:03 PM

135. You'll better go out and march with them,

instead of writing e-mails. This is what 'I can only move ahead' means. And you just did intrude this group you're not wanting to post in - which is wrong on a different level.

You couldn't resist to see what I'm posting so you took me off ignore: Before, you said you never used the ignore feature, and then you said you used it to keep from reading what's unpleasant to you. Then you couldn't resist to read it. See what I'm doing here? You change like the wind, so what's for certain?

You don't deserve the 'Fat Freddie's Cat' avatar. You probably never read the comic or sent nasty letters to the artist. I love fat Freddie's cat.

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Response to Call Me Wesley (Reply #135)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:48 PM

139. I took everyone off ignore, not just you.

As for Fat Freddie's Cat, I have every copy of the Freak Brothers comics, bought when they were first released. I can't see how that matters, though.

I posted my apology here because someone in this thread, just above my post, said that any apology I made should be made in this group. And I am "out and marching with them." I have been for some time here in the Twin Cities. I appreciate your comments, and renew my apology for things I wrote in the past. I won't ask for your forgiveness, just your understanding.

Edit to add: And, with that, I won't intrude on this group any longer. I was responding to a post here stating that my apology belonged here. So, I apologized here. I am sincere about it, but don't want to intrude where I am not wanted.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #132)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:34 PM

137. But you admitted up thread you believed Gays were pedophiles

Men and women, until 2005/2006, because somehow you had missed all the info the last decades that gays does not equal pedophiles. But you JUST STATED IN THE POST ABOVE MINE that you were just "poking" at Freepers.

I honestly don't get it. Which is it? Or, were you a huge liberal in every other way except for thinking gays shouldn't be around kids? I'm not trying to be snarky here, I really want to know, because I am totally confused about this.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #137)

Sun May 6, 2012, 08:43 PM

138. LGBT issues were not one of my major interests then.

There were very few posts about that subject from me on that site. And yes, I did not have the correct information. I had incorrect information. My fault. I should have done some research. Most of my posting on that site had to do with the battle between creationism and science, and religious tolerance issues. I poked at people on other subjects, though, including gun nuts and racial issues. Every once in a while I posted on other subjects.

I was ignorant of the correct information, and made a bad mistake on that subject. As I said, I regret that, but cannot change what was posted. I learned the actual facts, with the help of some very kind GLBT folks I met. I thank them for their patience in cluing me in. I'm wasn't perfect then, and I'm not perfect now. When I learn, I incorporate new knowlege. I apologize for my ignorance.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #138)

Sun May 6, 2012, 10:30 PM

140. But yet LGBT issues appear to have been one of your issues on FR

From all the links and posts people, including you, have linked to here.

I just do not understand how you can say you were just poking the Freeps, yet say in almost literally the next post you were just ignorant. I just see a disconnect there, sorry.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #138)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:54 AM

141. How much 'research' does it take to suss out that gay people have kids of their own?

 

All that takes is a shred of reason. You speak here of your love of science and of reason. Yet putting 2 and 2 together to reach 4 somehow required 'research'? What does science say of those who reach uninformed conclusions and promulgate them with great passion? You did not just 'have' your ignorance, you spread it around. And one does wonder why.

The estimates range from 6 to 14 million- the number of children with a gay parent. The ignorance you promulgated was an attack on those millions of children as well. You slandered them, you berated their families. And you claim you did such a thing out of sheer laziness coupled with a driving desire to write about subjects you are ignorant of? Why would any adult launch an attack on children and their parents so casually?
Did it cross your beautiful mind to DO some 'research' prior to pontification in such utterly bigoted ways? Why were you so ignorant, so late in your own life and so late on the timeline of progress?

Let's take a look at what was going on during that time, when you were making a display of your world class ignorance on websites across the right wing. What was the right wing doing at that time? This:
From November 3, 1992, to September 30, 1993, at least 132 attempts to
restrict the rights of gay men and lesbians occurred in 41 states and the
District of Columbia. This activity included statewide ballot initiatives,
legislative battles, state court decisions, local ordinance, curriculum
controversies, and attempts at censorship.

So your ignorant propaganda had much company, much audience, the right was roiling and spitting nails. Without all the information, laid out clearly, it sure as hell looks like you were attempting to drive that energy, spread more hate and lies. I mean, MM, when you were typing lies against gay people, slurs toward other minorities and criticizing John Kerry, I was in tiny offices in Oregon, campaigning for Kerry and also against hateful and ignorant legislation against gay people. So you were on the opposite side. 2004. You at a desk typing hate speech, me at another desk calling Republicans and trying to talk through all the ignorance they were fed on their own side. By the likes of you. That's the context here.
Then you come to DU and claim to have shown full unflagging support for equality 'for decades' AND when questioned on that, you lied and berated all who were suspect of what is now proven to be a line of bullshit. Decades? Unflagging? What kind of a person first writes hate speech, then changes his mind and instantly creates a false back story of 'decades of support'? What sort of a person then insists on preaching as an authority to the same minority he'd spent years attacking in public?
So many of your words on DU have been shown to be utterly untrue. So you produce more words. Face it, your best defense is that you were seriously ignorant and believing the most hate filled lies against gay people in 2004- the year MA made marriage equality a reality!!! That is not just ignorant, that is out of touch with the times, fingers in the ears refusal to accept the facts.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 12:11 PM

142. Weren't the first 500 threads on this enough?

 



At least take it over to H&M, where most of the 500 are still active

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #142)

Mon May 7, 2012, 12:52 PM

144. Are you a member of this community?

Your post is beyond inappropriate.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #142)

Mon May 7, 2012, 01:08 PM

146. Why do you feel it is not appropriate to this group?

Since this is an LGBT issue?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #146)

Mon May 7, 2012, 01:39 PM

148. Do you know this guy?

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #148)

Mon May 7, 2012, 05:02 PM

154. No, why?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #146)

Mon May 7, 2012, 03:22 PM

150. I thought the post to which you responded was pretty clear

 

MM's 6-year-old slur on gays and lesbians over at freeperville has been discussed at great length in H&M for several weeks, and seems to keep coming up every couple days in a new thread. I don't see the point in starting a 501st thread on it here. But there are 150 posts, so I guess it's garnered attention. I find his post over there beyond the pale, but it's also a little disturbing that he has to defend it over and over again. Put him on ignore and be done with it.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #150)

Mon May 7, 2012, 03:27 PM

151. You've been told that you are in a protected group, and you're continuing to disrupt.

You can self-delete your post. If you choose not to do so, and continue to disrupt, you run the risk of being blocked from posting in this group.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #151)

Mon May 7, 2012, 03:49 PM

153. No, I answered a direct question that was asked in reponse to my 1st post in this thread

 

There was absolutely nothing disruptive in the post to which you just replied. The first one, perhaps. But I'll now stop posting on this thread.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #150)

Mon May 7, 2012, 05:05 PM

155. Why shouldn't it be discussed in here?

You really didn't answer.

I don't want to put him on ignore, and what does that have to do with any of this?

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #150)

Fri May 11, 2012, 11:15 AM

158. Those of you claiming this is all 6 years old are pushing a falsehood.

 

He did his lies and disrupting right here on DU, like it or not, proof is a click away. In addition, you should consider some context. When MM was producing his lies at right wing sites, myself and other Oregonians were engaged in fighting an amendment just like the one NC just passed. He was the opposition in 2004. Trashed Kerry, gay people, African Americans, you name it. He did all of that during the right wings most concerted efforts against LGBT equality, there were bit of legislation in dozens of States and localities, and he was one of the most strident and ardent and extreme of their voices. Then he came here and lied about it repeatedly while claiming the right to lecture and preach at gay people and chide us for wanting progress. While the lexicon was altered, the objective remained the same, hinder as much as possible for as long as possible, and spread among the right horrid slanders while on 'the left' urging 'pragmatic delay' and typing 'realistically....he just can't do anything at this time'.
So pushing this crap that it was a singular slur, when it was many,many posts and OP's and pushing the 6 years ago thing when he misused DU and DUers with mendacious and arrogant ravings, these are the actions of a person out to defend, diminish and mitigate the slanders and the lies. It is not MM you are defending, it is his actions, and it is not the distant past, it is recent and on DU and it was not 'MM's slur' it was a canon of anti gay baiting, filthy lies and ignorant propaganda pushed by a guy who claims he's all about 'science' and 'reality'.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #142)

Mon May 7, 2012, 01:14 PM

147. This is the LGBT Group and we discuss here what is relevant to our LGBT members.

We decide what the SOP is and what falls within our SOP.

You are more than welcome to join in the discussion, But please do not hamper it.

WIlliam769

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Response to William769 (Reply #147)

Mon May 7, 2012, 03:28 PM

152. +1

what william said

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #142)

Mon May 7, 2012, 02:06 PM

149. This is our group, a safe haven.

The comments made by Mineral Man were made about gay people in general. People still make those types of comments about us even though those types of comments are 100% false.

We have every right to talk about it.

If you don't like the subject matter of a thread, you are free to click the little trash can icon next to it.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 12:58 PM

145. I just put that member on ignore, just now.

 

Thanks for shedding light on his hateful bullshit. K&R

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Wed May 9, 2012, 09:50 PM

156. I am glad to see this being discussed here in LGBT.

 

Yeah sure--- Meta has been the Meca for MM threads the last couple of months--- but make no mistake---he started the shitfest with his half-ass Mea-Culpa---a Mea-Culpa that in mho---is still half-assed.

I honestly have to say that I never ran into this guy at DU2. I may have, but really can't recall.

I encountered him for the very first time in DU3 in the sports forum.

Ahh the Sports Forum--- at DU2 it was a rough and tumble anything goes type group. I believe it was and still is a group that is tarnished a bit by members who never participate. Oh sure--- it isn't perfectly politically correct---sports smack talk usually isn't--- but we police ourselves and if some get carried away, we take care of it.

My first run in with MM was about a post that had been running in DU for about a year titled "Suck on it you Jealous Douchebags".

The premise of the thread was me telling other members they were simply jealous of the Miami Heat and their new player, LaBron James. What a thread--- lot's of smack talk---me giving---certainly getting it... fun for all.

Well--- the first couple for days out of the gate at DU 3 the thread got alerted on--- one for the word Douchebag--- and one for the "Suck on it" phrase. Needless to say that caused quite the ruckus.

And then a post popped up in Meta by Mr. MM himself asking if "Suck on it" is appropriate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/124022498

I couldn't fucking believe it. And then the lectures starting coming.

Here's my favorite line in that thread:
"I wouldn't. I'm smart enough to write insults that aren't sexist or homophobic".---yeah MM wrote that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=22550

Of course this was a month before he was found out to have written plenty of that shit at Free Republic.

And found out he was.

Keep in mind---his Mea-Culpa came after he was busted by a member who found his posts on FR.

This was full on damage control.

This guy made my fucking posting life here at DU3 a pain in the ass. Ain't no doubt in my mind I was his target.

I'm like what the hell--- what's with this guy?

It wasn't until his famous outing that I realized that I wasn't the only member getting lectured by him--- members started coming out of the woodwork who were harassed.

Then--- I was PISSED! The fucking hypocrisy just floored me. Yeah--- I went on a mission--- a mission to expose more about this former Gay Bashing freeper.

Here's the thing--- the dude says he was a mole at FR---only there to poke the freepers--- errrr OK...

I don't buy it for one minute.

He says that he had wrong information and that is why he posted about Gay Pedophiles, etc.

OK---so here's another FR thread for you.

He posts a thread titled: Parks, school offer Gay Games sites
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548093/posts

No one responds right away so he kicks it by saying "Huh".

And then it catches and the shitbag homophones go into an orgy of hate.
Read through the thread---but before you do---take a couple of stiff shots.

He then posts this in the thread:
Presidential politics: Oak Park is in Cook County, which voted Democratic in the last two presidential elections. According to unofficial vote totals for 2004, Bush received 583,774 votes and John Kerry received 1,389,631 votes.

What he's saying here is that this community that sponsored the Gay games voted for a Democrat by 2 to 1.

Bad Democrats.

And finally in that thread this: These are keywords associated with his name:
cowboypuddingeating; gay; gleefest; hissyfithurdles; homosexualagenda; illinois; javelinecatch; nea; publicschools; school; soaponaropetoss; tossthepurse

Now I've been told that anyone can attach keywords to other members names--- I don't fucking buy it--but no matter. The question is---why would he allow that vile shit to be attached to his name?

Check it out yourself.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1548093/posts

Now some here yell to the top of their lungs that people can change. ---Sure they can...

But we're talking 6 short years ago when most of us here were fighting the good fight against shitbirds that permeate Free Republic.

And after he's banned he pops up here with his holier than though lectures and attitude... about what we can say and what we can't say---telling us that he would never write homophobic comments---and posting about LGBT subjects like he's a fucking expert.

I've been accused of stalking this guy and for a couple of weeks I may have---simply because it fucking pisses me off that he goes about his business---nothing to see here--- move on... ha ha.

He has since deleted every thread he started in Meta--- like I said--- nothing to see--- move on......

I am pretty much done with this guy--- I see his posts pop up--- a couple the last day discussing LGBT---and I simply hold my nose and move on....

If some here think the dude is reformed--- fine.... but don't get pissed that most don't buy it.

trumad











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Response to trumad (Reply #156)

Wed May 9, 2012, 10:15 PM

157. Thank you for posting.

It needed to be in the record.

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Response to trumad (Reply #156)

Fri May 11, 2012, 11:38 AM

159. On DU2 he was always in LGBT threads....

 

Twice when Skinner posted OP's trying to make better communications on DU around 'gay issues' MM was the first to chime in. The second time, others informed Skinner that MM was making some of the trouble, which is why his posts declared that he was a Super Unflagging For Decades Full Equality Crusader and claimed that his sterling support was misunderstood by us, for he disagreed on 'tactics' and thought he had the right to dictate those tactics. Same guy who wrote all that shit against us.
On the first one, MM"s first in thread post was one suggesting that the LGBT community was unwilling to respond to Skinner. Skinner deleted that post.

So you may have missed him as he was busy with teh gay. Here he is lying about his past with great gilded gusto, live on DU!

"So, your pointing out of this single issue is more or less irrelevant in my decision, and will be in 2012, too. Despite my firm support for marriage equality, which I have expressed for decades, I will not vote for or against a President solely on the basis of that issue."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2091009&mesg_id=2091321

When I asked him to explain and make amends for lying about his 'decades' of support on the thread where he admitted to his hate posts in 2004 and 05, to address the
haughty nature of his words to others in light of the newly known truth that he was lying about his past support and hiding his past slanders, he refused to say so much as 'sorry'.
Look at what he writes there as if it were true. Here he is later in that thread telling me what for:
"Your assumption that I'm not a solid supporter of marriage equality is insulting. I have stated that support again and again, and am active in informing elected officials and candidates of it. Yes, I'm a straight guy, but that does not mean I don't stand for equal rights for all.
You're going after the wrong person. I'm on your side. Even if you continue to say that I'm not, I will still be actively<[/i> supporting marriage equality. It is not you I answer to, but rather my own conscience in this matter. I don't really deal with individuals' opinions of me. That's not a worthwhile thing to do. I do what I do to support all issues of importance to me, and marriage equality is one of those, for reasons I will not explain to you or anyone else. I do not owe explanations to random, anonymous posters on discussion forum."
And then he later admitted to his full voiced anti gay slanders which went on for years and years up till at least 05 on various websites. It was 'insulting' for me to see through him. I was making 'assumptions'. He would not explain his deep reasons...of course recently he has rushed to post about his wife's gay cousin or something, explaining as hard as he can....
A dishonest person deserves to hear that others are aware of their dishonesty as long as that dishonesty goes on. And his does in fact go on and on and on.....

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #159)

Fri May 11, 2012, 12:01 PM

160. Funny--- I think my above post is my first in LGBT..

 

Last edited Sat May 12, 2012, 11:19 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not Gay--- I'm just a big knucklehead straight white guy who has been afforded every opportunity on the planet without discrimination.

I've never really been discriminated against and I truly want to slap a guy in my category upside the head when he spouts that us knucklehead straight white guy's are being discriminated against.

I don't post in LGBT because I can't relate--- I haven't gone through what the LGBT community has gone through---so what the hell am going to offer.

Oh sure I can come in and offer my support for the cause and tell the community that I have their back---but seriously-- that's about it.

This is your group--- not mine and I deeply respect that.

So when other straight folks come in and try and preach to your community, your group, your LGBT Brothers and Sisters--- well personally I think they are full of shit and just ignorant---I think this is the very definition of a disrupting troll.



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Response to trumad (Reply #160)

Fri May 11, 2012, 02:17 PM

163. You got hot allot more respect from me than you already have.

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Response to trumad (Reply #160)

Sat May 12, 2012, 09:51 AM

165. Believe me Trumad.

I am honored to take your unconditional support. You are a mensch.

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Response to trumad (Reply #160)

Sat May 12, 2012, 10:26 AM

166. You are a brave and honest poster.

 

I agree that it is the very definition of disruption. The worst sort of disruption at that.

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Response to trumad (Reply #160)

Sat May 12, 2012, 12:19 PM

167. Loves me some trumad!

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Response to trumad (Reply #156)

Fri May 11, 2012, 12:04 PM

161. I had several posts deleted on DU2 re: that guy.

He claims to NEVER alert on "attacks" on himself. But that's bullshit. ANY mention of his freeper past would go POOF in 2 or 3 minutes - way too fast for a mod to happen by the post. The posts weren't even rude or attacking. For instance, some other DUer once posted a thread about the goings on over in Freepervile and our resident ex-freeper chimed in "who cares what goes on over there".... I was like really? You have 26,000 posts and you dare say something like that? ... Poof gone.

It didn't matter he had in his profile that he was a former freeper. I guess the mods erred on the side of "civility" and didn't want his former freeper past brought up even though it was in his comments/profile.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #161)

Fri May 11, 2012, 01:29 PM

162. Yep

 

I get alerted every time I mention this guy in Meta---GD, etc.

Same alert; trumad is doing his creepy MineralMan thing again".

No doubt who is alerting.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #161)

Fri May 11, 2012, 02:29 PM

164. His posts on DU2, and how he was rendered bulletproof by certain moderators

 

were one of the things that started the discussion about the homophobes on the moderator staff. The same ones who always seemed to have their names attached to the "Locking" posts on pro-gay threads while anti-gay posts were allowed to run rampant.

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Response to Prism (Original post)

Fri Oct 30, 2015, 09:56 AM

168. It's unforgivable. This old thread was brought up in a new thread

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