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Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:06 PM Aug 2014

The night it became dangerous to demonstrate in Tel Aviv (+972)

The fascists attacked. Police didn’t respond in time and ran away when the sirens wailed. We were lucky to get away with only three injured, one in the hospital and many traumatized.

(Translated from Hebrew by Michael Sappir)


Police stopping right-wing nationalists from attacking left wing activists during a protest in central Tel Aviv against the Israeli attack on Gaza, July 12, 2014. The protest ended with the nationalists attacking a small group of left-wing activists with little police interference. (Photo by Yotam Ronen/Activestills.org)


When the sirens wailed in Tel Aviv last night one thing was clear to us: the fascists in front of us were more dangerous than the rapidly approaching rockets. One by one, the police ran to bomb shelters and left us face to face. Only one brave and wise officer remained in the middle and attempted to separate us. Only when the Iron Dome rockets lit up the sky with their golden blazes and intercepted a rocket right over us did the two groups stop their shouts for a moment, mesmerized by the sight, from the boom, and then once again: “Death to Arabs!”, “Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies!”

But our fear was justified. By the end of the protest (and a little after it, when they chased us through the streets) one person who had a chair broken over his head was injured and evacuated to hospital, another got punched hard in the head, and one came our with a black eye, someone else had their expensive video camera stolen, and dozens of others hit, pushed, or eggs thrown at them. Some also said that the fascists attacked them with pepper spray. And that’s how it became dangerous to demonstrate in Tel Aviv. Less so because of rockets from Gaza – more because of the fascists and the government’s incitement.

It was clear from the start that it wasn’t going to end well. We came to protest the ongoing killing in Gaza, against both sides’ firing on civilians, against the occupation and to demonstrate for peace talks. We came to say that in Gaza and Sderot children just want to live. And there were some who didn’t want us to say those things.


Left-wing activists during a protest in central Tel Aviv against the Israeli attack on Gaza, July 12, 2014. The protest ended with right-wing nationalists attacking a small group of left-wing activists with little police interference. (Photo by Oren Ziv/Activestills.org)


Hundreds of Leftists protesting in the heart of Tel Aviv during a war usually bring out many dozens of police officers in order to violently disperse the demonstration, or if not that, then to separate between the protesters and counter protesters. This time it was clear there would be counter protesters.


More...
http://972mag.com/the-night-it-became-dangerous-to-demonstrate-in-tel-aviv/93524/
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The night it became dangerous to demonstrate in Tel Aviv (+972) (Original Post) Scootaloo Aug 2014 OP
Looks like Israel is letting thugs do it dirty work for them. 4now Aug 2014 #1
* Update * Israeli Aug 2014 #2
Well to be fair, "peace" carries little sway in most nations Scootaloo Aug 2014 #3
correction Scoot .... Israeli Aug 2014 #4
I'll leave such words to the experts Scootaloo Aug 2014 #5
I've noticed .... Israeli Aug 2014 #6
"You want us to lower ourselves to their level?" Scootaloo Aug 2014 #10
Gaza war stifles democracy in Israel .... Israeli Aug 2014 #7
Israel has always had a militaristic tradition, as well as a pacifist one (at the beginning) ellenrr Aug 2014 #8
Israel cracks down on anti-war protesters Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #9

4now

(1,596 posts)
1. Looks like Israel is letting thugs do it dirty work for them.
Fri Aug 1, 2014, 07:15 PM
Aug 2014

You cannot have dissent in a democracy like Israel.
Its not surprising that no arrests were made.

Israeli

(4,132 posts)
2. * Update *
Sun Aug 3, 2014, 08:33 AM
Aug 2014

first off Scoot .... I posted this already :

RE : http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468657

not that I'm protesting your post ....far from that .

Also here :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113466076

and here :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113468654

and here :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113473308

Now to the * Update *..........

Weekend protests against the Gaza War, Aug. 1-2, 2014

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/press_releases/1407053061/

Also ...

http://adam-keller2.blogspot.co.il/

Demonstration:
Saturday, 2nd of August. 20:00, Habima Theater Square, Tel Aviv

We continue to call for an immediate cease fire, putting an end to the war and bloodshed, while simultaneously seeking a political solution

Stop the attack on Gaza!

War does not lead to security, it merely claims more and more causalities.

Say yes to a political solution that will make possible a secure life for both people.

*** There will be assigned stewards. Please follow their instructions as for the location of the protest, the conduct during the protest and the dispersal***

We ask that all participants will avoid any violent conduct.

Coalition of Women for Peace & The Da'am Workers’ Party


Here is what happened :

http://www.occuworld.org/news/1267319

The number of dead in Gaza has risen to over 1500.
Hundreds of people gathered this evening in Tel Aviv to protest the massacre on Gaza at a demo organized by the Coalition of Women for Peace and Da’am Workers’ Party. The police blocked protesters from entering the demo. Despite repeated attempts by the Police to prevent and disperse the demo, the protesters who had gathered started a spontaneous march, shouting slogans against the massacre and supporting democracy. The police forcibly repressed the demo arresting 17 protesters


&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

Published on Aug 2, 2014

Israeli police pushed left wing activists outside from Habime square where they gathered to protest against the attack on Gaza, as the police try to prevent them from protesting in center Tel Aviv, August 2, 2014.
The activists that were pushed outside from the square began to march spontaneously in the adjacent streets in center Tel Aviv calling for an end to the war
Police arrested 17 left wing protesters

https://www.flickr.com/photos/actives...


So I ask you Scoot ....

you beginning to understand why the Israeli Peace Camp is irrelevant today ?

.....almost as " irrelevant " as those that stood against fascism during the 1930's in pre world war Germany .








 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
3. Well to be fair, "peace" carries little sway in most nations
Sun Aug 3, 2014, 01:52 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2014, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Peace does not enrich those who decide whether there will be peace or war, after all. and it's easy enough to work the people into a fine lather, an orgy of glee over killing the "enemy" whether it be the "savage beasts" beyond the borders or the "skulking heretics" within them.

Looking at Israel, I see patterns that look very, very much like the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece. Not as open as an organized group no, but definitely a unified philosophy where the Arab, the left, and the "infiltrator" are also "the enemy."

Israeli

(4,132 posts)
4. correction Scoot ....
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 04:19 AM
Aug 2014

ref: " where the Arab, the left, and the "infiltrator" are also "the enemy." "

you missed one out ..... add 'Goyim' to your list .

Lets not beat around the bush .....its pure fascism Scoot and its very well organized .

see : http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/aug/02/palestine-hatred-and-hope/

The Israeli Left are not taking to the streets out of fear Scoot .

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
5. I'll leave such words to the experts
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 04:34 AM
Aug 2014

I didn't forget it, I just know which terms make my alert-stalkers shit their Pam Gellar underoos.

I know I sit in a place with the privilege of not having roving packs of skinheads shouting their bullshit... But... Has the Israeli left considered putting on some heavy shoes and picking up a hammer... and taking the streets? Any organizing defense for those vulnerable neighbors? Any efforts at all to stand up to the thugs?

Israeli

(4,132 posts)
6. I've noticed ....
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 05:22 AM
Aug 2014

ref : " I didn't forget it, I just know which terms make my alert-stalkers shit their Pam Gellar underoos. "

as to this :

" I know I sit in a place with the privilege of not having roving packs of skinheads shouting their bullshit... But... Has the Israeli left considered putting on some heavy shoes and picking up a hammer... and taking the streets? Any organizing defense for those vulnerable neighbors? Any efforts at all to stand up to the thugs? "

Scoot ... dont forget that you are talking to a 64 year old grandmother ... there might well be ...if there is I have no knowledge of them .

You want us to lower ourselves to their level ?

Look ..if the Palestinians can do this :

" On July 24, two days before the Tel Aviv protest, there was a peaceful march of Palestinians expressing solidarity with Gaza—the largest such demonstration in many years. The marchers set out from the southern outskirts of Ramallah and walked the three or four kilometers to the Qalandia checkpoint north of Jerusalem. It was organized, mostly through social media, by a group calling itself the 48k March and drew at least 10,000 men, women, and children, and perhaps even twice that number. There were refugees from the 1948 war marching with the rest. "

Dont we owe them the same ?

nonviolent resistance Scoot ....its the only way ....let them shoot us to ...just like they shot Rabin in the back .

" Those of us who are familiar with the situation in the territories have known for years that the thin veil of stability could be torn away at any moment, revealing the volatile reality underneath; and we have also known, as do the grassroots leaders in the villages and towns, that the Occupation will perhaps end when some form of mostly nonviolent resistance achieves large numbers. "

source : http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/aug/02/palestine-hatred-and-hope/

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
10. "You want us to lower ourselves to their level?"
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:49 PM
Aug 2014

Their "level" is calling for the death and dissolution of entire factors of society. Their "level" is threatening and terrorizing people who belong to those sectors, from children to the elders. Their "level" is threatening to mutilate people protesting a war.

No, I'm not suggesting sinking to their level. No one is saying "go threaten their parents, go harass them at their jobs," etc.

I'm suggesting self-defense. Actual self-defense, not "going out and butchering a lot of people and calling it self-defense" as the trend seems to be today.

Fascists are not brave people. If they were, they wouldn't be fascists, it's a philosophy that appeals to those who are afraid and view themselves as weak. A show of solidarity, a willingness to give back the hits they dole out, a plan to come to the defense of the vulnerable people they target, this can push them back.

And no, i'm not expecting a 64 year-old grandma to go out with a cricket bat - as amusing as the image is, it wouldn't work out obviously

I simply am making the point that fascism cannot be defeated by marching around and singing songs. There has to be actual action, some way of pushing back, of herding them out of your community. It doesn't need to be actual violence - a show of solidarity and the implied threat of violence could be enough. But again, purely in a defensive manner.



Israeli

(4,132 posts)
7. Gaza war stifles democracy in Israel ....
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 05:53 AM
Aug 2014
Summary : The current Israel-Hamas conflict has generated an aggressive political patriotic discourse in Israel that has taken a heavy toll on Israeli democracy, in which those who dare to oppose the operation are expected to keep silent

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/protective-edge-democracy-zoabi-idf-golan-levy.html#ixzz39bSnYda9

Excerpts : ....


Dov Khenin is the only Jewish member of the Knesset who dares to appear at anti-war demonstrations. As the largest opposition party, the Labor Party has thrown its full support behind the military operation, with some of its members even outflanking Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from the right.



Freedom of expression lies at the heart of any democratic society, but in Israel it has become a matter of controversy. Demonstrators are exposed to violence by radical right-wing phalanges. In at least one case, these thugs actually followed a female demonstrator back from a protest rally and beat her up at the entrance to her home. Meanwhile, social networks are crammed with crude, racist responses and threats.



For Matti Golan, the author of a prominent column for the Israeli daily financial paper Globes and the former managing editor of Israeli daily Haaretz, simply suspending Zoabi from the Knesset does not go far enough. Instead, he suggests on July 20 that she be arrested immediately, without a trial, and that she be held until the end of the war. Only then, writes Golan, should the authorities decide whether she should stand trial at all. And Golan recommends the same treatment for Haaretz journalist Gideon Levy, who refuses to adopt the line of, “Quiet! We’re shooting here,” and even dared to publish an article critical of the Israeli air force’s pilots, under the headline “The Worst Become Pilots” (playing on an old slogan, “The best become pilots”). He was attacked by passersby and his life was threatened before the management of Haaretz decided to provide him with a body guard. This is democracy defending itself. The photo of Levy with his security guard could even be the victory photo of this war, if the victor is violence and fascism.


ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
8. Israel has always had a militaristic tradition, as well as a pacifist one (at the beginning)
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 07:47 AM
Aug 2014

from Jewish currents, written about Ariel Sharon, but relevant:

"We are so used to depicting the Jewish culture as peaceful, and imagining Jews as victims, that we forget that a strain of militarism runs through Jewish history. Three times in our ancient and/or mythical history, Jewish generals have waged wars of conquest: the original conquest of Canaan; the war by David using the troops of Israel’s enemies to dethrone King Saul; and the civil war in which the ultra-religious under the Maccabees wrested control of ancient Israel. (One could build a case that the revolt against British authority after World War II marked a fourth such war of conquest.) Many Jews look to Jewish religious documents to justify these wars, and the justification has always reduced to the same idea: God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Archeology has demonstrated, however, that the justifications were mostly written after the wars ended. After all, the histories of wars are usually written by the winners.

Being in a constant state of siege transforms even the most inherently humanistic of societies, and modern Israel has faced constant warfare since its inception as a democratic homeland for the Jews. Defenders of the state have always made a moral distinction between Israelis and the enemy, taking the high ground by virtue of religious texts, Israel’s existence as a democracy, and an almost smug belief in the moral essence of Jewish society and leadership. Uncritical defenders trust that this moral essence prevents Israel from waging anything other than a “just war.”

The Israel Defense Force (IDF) proclaimed this moral high ground with its ”Purity of Arms” principle, one of the ten values of IDF’s basic doctrine: “The soldier shall make use of his weaponry and power only for the fulfillment of the mission and solely to the extent required; he will maintain his humanity even in combat. The soldier shall not employ his weaponry and power in order to harm non-combatants or prisoners of war, and shall do all he can to avoid harming their lives, body, honor and property.” But even a cursory readings of Arik will unearth enough incidents of civilian casualties, “collateral damage,” and outright brutality to put the lie to the “Purity of Arms” concept. Just as the principle of American exceptionalism has been used to justify the moral right of the U.S. to wage wars of aggression, so has the Israeli government and society bolstered its continued preference for violence over negotiation with a Jewish version of exceptionalism. It’s easy for a nation at war for more than seventy years, with a near-universal military draft and career soldiers dominating government, to delude itself about its conduct during wars, but the acts speak for themselves."

http://jewishcurrents.org/ariel-sharon-israeli-militarism-29261

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
9. Israel cracks down on anti-war protesters
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 09:00 AM
Aug 2014

More than 1,000 Palestinian citizens of Israel have been arrested since Israel's Gaza offensive began in early July.

Mya Guarnieri Last updated: 05 Aug 2014 09:03

More than 1,000 Palestinian citizens of Israel have been arrested by the Israeli police since the country's military offensive in Gaza began in early July, according to a lawyer representing a number of the detainees.

While some have been arrested for protesting the Israeli incursion into Gaza, dozens are currently being held without charge. Many say they have been detained based on policemen's "lies", while some have been beaten to the point of needing medical care.

Maisa Arshid, an attorney for dozens of the detainees, said that the crackdown on Palestinian citizens is only getting worse, with 20 to 30 Palestinians getting picked up every week in the Nazareth area alone.

"All of them are accused of participating in illegal demonstrations," Arshid told Al Jazeera, adding that "part of these demos were permitted by the police themselves".

In many cases, the Israeli authorities have presented no evidence that the accused have participated in a protest other than a police officer's word. Arshid also said that the police frequently hold people for short periods without registering their detention, likely putting the number of those who have been picked up by the police even higher than 1,000.

IN VIDEO: Anti-war Israelis protest over Gaza operation

When the wave of arrests began earlier in July, Palestinian citizens were detained and quickly released while others were placed under house arrest, or ordered to do community service. But as Israel's assault on Gaza has gone on, Palestinian citizens have been subject to much longer detainments.

This week, Arshid visited a group of detainees who had been held without charge for nine days. "Each day the court is delaying their hearing," she said, adding that hearings initially scheduled for Sunday, were pushed back to Tuesday.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/israel-palestinians-anti-war-protesters-gaza-2014839155862548.html
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