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shira

(30,109 posts)
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 06:56 AM Jan 2012

Palestinian activist Mahmoud abu Rahma leaves the hospital after a stabbing attack

Palestinian activist Mahmoud abu Rahma was released from the hospital Wednesday after he was stabbed and critically wounded last week.

Rahma is the director of international relations at the Gaza Strip-based Al Mezan Center for Human Rights, and is known for speaking out against Palestinian militants and leaders, The Los Angeles Times reported.

<snip>

The attacks were most likely motivated by a recent article the activist penned for Maan News Agency, an independent Palestinian news source, titled "The Gap Between Resistance and Governance."

The piece criticized Palestinian government officials and resistance movements for silencing critics, detaining and torturing political opponents, and endangering civilians by placing military stations in residential neighborhoods, the Times reported.

more...
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/israel-and-palestine/120118/palestinian-activist-stabbed-hamas

[font color = "red"]Not newsworthy. Note that the mainstream media hasn't touched this narrative buster (Israeli hasbara). It's also not such a bright idea exposing Hamas' use of human shields. Western reporters in Gaza could meet the same fate as this activist.[/font]

46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Palestinian activist Mahmoud abu Rahma leaves the hospital after a stabbing attack (Original Post) shira Jan 2012 OP
Excerpt from the Palestinian human rights activist's Maan article... shira Jan 2012 #1
explain something to us shira how is it human shielding? azurnoir Jan 2012 #6
It's human shielding according to the UN and HRW... shira Jan 2012 #9
lol you only bold the part that is attempting to support your claims azurnoir Jan 2012 #12
Getting desperate, aren't you? shira Jan 2012 #13
Notice the way this thread is being derailed oberliner Jan 2012 #14
My first 2 posts do address the incident in the OP azurnoir Jan 2012 #15
You seem to be the only one doing so oberliner Jan 2012 #16
happens all the time here azurnoir Jan 2012 #18
okay lets look at the figures from 9/29/00 to 10/31/11 shall we? azurnoir Jan 2012 #17
Your link doesn't show 6430 killed, 2545 of which were known combatants.... shira Jan 2012 #19
The link shows 3 time periods before during and after OLC add them up azurnoir Jan 2012 #20
I don't know what you added up but I came up with radically different numbers... shira Jan 2012 #21
If you are apparently unable to figure out what was added up from the link then I really do not azurnoir Jan 2012 #22
The reason for bringing up the IDF record vs. any other military... shira Jan 2012 #23
well then azurnoir Jan 2012 #24
Not patriotic as much as exposing the hypocrisy of irrationally bashing a country... shira Jan 2012 #25
perhaps your confused azurnoir Jan 2012 #26
No, not unless there's another Azurnoir posing as you... shira Jan 2012 #27
Thanks let's see my comment in full shall we here it is azurnoir Jan 2012 #28
I wrote that you should start there and read on... shira Jan 2012 #29
I brought up the Palmach to point out your own hypocrisy when it comes to these issues azurnoir Jan 2012 #30
Right, a typical deflection... shira Jan 2012 #31
so in other words you already know its on the old thread you linked to azurnoir Jan 2012 #32
You show nothing but utter contempt for Israeli actions but WRT Hamas.... shira Jan 2012 #33
you 'misconstrue' what I show contempt for n/t azurnoir Jan 2012 #34
as the record clearly shows Israel has no such compunctions? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #41
The first responder denied the numbers you simply make them up azurnoir Jan 2012 #42
huh? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #43
Oh, I see the problem. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #44
No I used the correct stat azurnoir Jan 2012 #45
Correct for your purposes perhaps. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #46
Human Shield? holdencaufield Jan 2012 #7
If they actually were human shields we'd be seeing complaints from Israel that they can not bomb azurnoir Jan 2012 #8
Or.... holdencaufield Jan 2012 #10
They are human shields. See post #9... shira Jan 2012 #11
HRW, Amnesty Slam Attack on Gaza Rights Activist, Call for Probe azurnoir Jan 2012 #2
Well, that's the least Amnesty and HRW can do. I don't even have to read.... shira Jan 2012 #5
Hamas to investigate attack on human rights activist azurnoir Jan 2012 #3
Yeah, right. The fox looking out for the hen. n/t shira Jan 2012 #4
One week later and mainstream news sources aren't touching this one... shira Jan 2012 #35
well I guess thats mainstream news always protecting Hamas because we do know Mahmoud abu Rahma azurnoir Jan 2012 #36
Oh yes, Vittorio Arrigoni. More proof of press coverup... shira Jan 2012 #37
you were going on about international media not paying attention to abu Rahma being stabbed azurnoir Jan 2012 #38
And they're still not paying attention to Abu Rahma... shira Jan 2012 #39
you supplied me with a link to your own comment and abu Rahma has already been explained azurnoir Jan 2012 #40
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
1. Excerpt from the Palestinian human rights activist's Maan article...
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 07:02 AM
Jan 2012

On Dec. 9 2011, an Israeli attack on a training site killed a man and his 11-year-old son in al-Nasser neighborhood in Gaza city. His wife and four children were injured; one of the children is at an Israeli hospital suffering critical wounds.

This man, whose house is near the training site, had complained to the resistance members many times. He explained the family’s fear for their life and house. But he was told the family could move out of the area, even if they had no resources to move. He died the way he feared most: tragically.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=449852

[font color = "red"]Remember folks, human shielding (a big time war crime) is not going on in Gaza. That's just Israeli hasbara and racist anti-Palestinian rightwing rhetoric. [/font]

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
6. explain something to us shira how is it human shielding?
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 05:36 PM
Jan 2012

These victims would be Human Shields if Israel refrained from attacks on these sites because of the proximity of civilians however as the record clearly shows Israel has no such compunctions and frequently attacks such sites that result in civilian death and injury

The Hasbara part comes in when Israel's defenders justify such attacks and use terms such as Human Shields that in this context are quite nonsensical as these people are shielding nothing they are in fact victims -of both sides

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
9. It's human shielding according to the UN and HRW...
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 08:16 PM
Jan 2012

The UN Glossary of Peacekeeping Terms offers the following definition:


human shield is any person who, under the laws of war is considered a non-combattant and as such protected from deliberate attack (civilians, POWs, etc.) but who is used by one side as a hostage to deter the other side from striking a particular military targetand risking killing the hostages; the side using “human shields” gambles on the otherside’s reluctance to violate the laws of war and on its fear of the moral and politicalopprobrium usually attached to such violations; the use of human shields can take theform of a) placing civilians or prisoners in or near legitimate military targets (bases,bunkers, weapons factories, etc.) or b) placing artillery batteries and other offensiveweapons in the midst of the civilian population, particularly such buildings as hospitals,schools, churches, etc., or residential neighborhoods, or c) for non-uniformed armedgroups, firing at their adversary from among a crowd of civilians


Here's HRW for actions of the LTTE in Sri Lanka:


"In addition to preventing civilians from leaving combat zones, the LTTE has deployed their forces close to civilians, thus using them as "human shields," fired upon civilians trying to flee to government-controlled areas, and recruited children for their forces."


You asked how that example was human shielding, but then you wrote the following:

These victims would be Human Shields if Israel refrained from attacks on these sites because of the proximity of civilians

Why are you asking me if they're human shields when you're making that argument for me? Of course, you had to follow with a dig at the IDF with this...

however as the record clearly shows Israel has no such compunctions and frequently attacks such sites that result in civilian death and injury

If Israel has no such compunctions, then how is it they're historically better WRT civilians than any other Western nation in assymetrical combat?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
12. lol you only bold the part that is attempting to support your claims
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 08:58 PM
Jan 2012

but the text proceeds that clarifies what is meant and supports mine that these ado not fit the definition of human shields also there is no evidence that the families were forced to stay in the area, economic conditions may have 'forced' it in a sense but they were not held hostage in the literal sense. Israel has no compunction about causing civilian deaths and injuries and the claim that we did not 'target' them we targeted something 10 feet away doesn't wash very well.
As to civilians killed in military conflicts and your claim that IDF's hands are cleaner than any other military- Should we compare them again? If I remember correctly last time you wanted to compare only OCL (never mind that IDF's cleaner hands killed 300 children in that conflict I guess little kids have less blood?) to any other time period (of your choosing of course) in an attempt to make IDF appear better than any other military that does not wash either the record if you look at totals not cherry picked time periods show Israel is no better than any one else

But its nice to you admit that HRW does not target Israel albeit the situation in Sri Lanka's civil war has no bearing on what is going on in Gaza

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
13. Getting desperate, aren't you?
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 09:22 PM
Jan 2012
the use of human shields can take theform of a) placing civilians or prisoners in or near legitimate military targets (bases,bunkers, weapons factories, etc.) or b)placing artillery batteries and other offensiveweapons in the midst of the civilian population, particularly such buildings as hospitals,schools, churches, etc., or residential neighborhoods, or c) for non-uniformed armedgroups, firing at their adversary from among a crowd of civilians


You asked how the example in the OP was human shielding. Part (b) is the answer as that is 1 of 3 examples.

The IDF's hands are cleaner than any other military on the planet WRT civilians and I'm certain you know it but pretend otherwise...


The civilian casualty ratio of the targeted killings was surveyed by Haaretz military journalist Amos Harel. In 2002 and 2003, the ratio was 1:1, meaning one civilian killed for every terrorist killed. Harel called this period "the dark days" because of the relatively high civilian death toll as compared to later years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_targeted_killings#Civilian_casualty_ratio

1:1 was Israel's worst in the past decade, and that was at the height of the Intifada. That's still better than any other western military.

Keep trying.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
14. Notice the way this thread is being derailed
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 10:50 PM
Jan 2012

I wonder if anyone wants to address the incident mentioned discussed in the OP.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
15. My first 2 posts do address the incident in the OP
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:17 AM
Jan 2012

any further posts were a result of the apparent consternation at who was addressing the incident in OP. HRW and AI are not supposed to criticize Hamas goes against the narrative or something

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
16. You seem to be the only one doing so
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:21 AM
Jan 2012

No one else seems much interested.

I know we are a small community here, but that is still surprising.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
18. happens all the time here
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:39 AM
Jan 2012

I'd wager if one if one ran a search of this group/forum using 1948 as the keyword nearly 2 out of 3 threads posted would turn up, we haven't gotten there yet on this one thankfully

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
17. okay lets look at the figures from 9/29/00 to 10/31/11 shall we?
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:36 AM
Jan 2012

according to B'Tselem (who it should be note was recently denounced as anti-Israel by 'someone' here) the figures are this

Palestinians killed by Israeli's total 6430 of those 2545 were known to be combatants making the ratio closer to 2:1

but I'll concede to you IDF is bestest army on earth for only killing 300 Palestinian children in a 3 week period


http://old.btselem.org/statistics/english/

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
19. Your link doesn't show 6430 killed, 2545 of which were known combatants....
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 10:12 AM
Jan 2012

WRT children, many of those were known combatants under 18. You must think the IDF is so evil that they keep the total civilian numbers down (for hasbara reasons) but make sure to target little kiddies for shits and giggles.

Total insanity.

Remember that some time ago you had no problem with Hamas combatants under 18. You thought that was typical for that region and compared to other 3rd world nations. You're trying to have it both ways - trying to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand, it's okay that Hamas does that so they're not using "child combatants" and violating IHL. But OTOH, you blame Israel for "killing children".



azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
20. The link shows 3 time periods before during and after OLC add them up
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jan 2012

that is how I arrived at the numbers I did

eta what strikes me here is that you can not even accept that IDF is no better or worse than other armies they must be better

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
21. I don't know what you added up but I came up with radically different numbers...
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 07:46 PM
Jan 2012

Regardless, when B'tselem considers the following Palestinians 'civilians' and not combatants, they lose all credibility:


* Jan. 17, 2002: ‘Abd a-Salam Sadeq Hasouna, killed by IDF gunfire after having fire at Israeli civilians in a Hadera banquet hall, killing 6 guests at a bat mitzvah

* Nov. 28, 2002: ‘Omar Mahmoud Abu Rub and Yusef Muhammad Abu Rub, killed by border police gunfure after they entered Beit She’an, opened fire, and killed six Israeli civilians


They're just innocent 'civilians' like you and me, right?



Fact is, no one disputes that the IDF is better WRT civilians than any other Western military. Israel haters have a hard time admitting to that. Just as they do in not being able to admit that overall Israel is a much more liberal country than the USA.

Finally, WRT children who are 16-17 (the vast majority males) who apparently don't count as children if they're allegedly being abused by Hamas (they only count as kids if Israel can be blamed), I'm very sorry you can't use that argument honestly in any of your future efforts to demonize/delegitimize Israel.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
22. If you are apparently unable to figure out what was added up from the link then I really do not
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 08:10 PM
Jan 2012

think this is worth continuing, as you apparently refuse to see beyond your own claims

however it is interesting to see that you seem to consider any Palestinian male over 15 that is killed by IDF to be a terrorist

"Fact is, no one disputes that the IDF is better WRT civilians than any other Western military. Israel haters have a hard time admitting to that. Just as they do in not being able to admit that overall Israel is a much more liberal country than the USA"

well I guess Richard Kemp isn't nobody.

The rest is quite interesting but as an Israeli(?) I would guess you'd feel that way

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
23. The reason for bringing up the IDF record vs. any other military...
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 09:34 PM
Jan 2012

...is that it takes a lot of nerve for people outside of Israel to take offense at a military that has cleaner hands than theirs. Understand now? Same WRT Israeli policies when Israel is more liberal than pretty much any other country - especially given that Israel has been in a state of war defending against its neighbors from the very beginning. I doubt any other Western nation would restrain itself as much and remain liberal.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
24. well then
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 02:16 AM
Jan 2012

you are patriotic indeed I guess

as for myself I do not find IDF to be better than any other military on the face of earth or what ever it is you claim
as to Israel's state of war with it's neighbors then the stories of treaties with Jordan and Egypt are false I guess no wonder Carter is so hated he falsified the whole thing !?!

as to the Palestinians there is state of war then does not Geneva apply?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
25. Not patriotic as much as exposing the hypocrisy of irrationally bashing a country...
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 12:21 PM
Jan 2012

...whose record isn't nearly as bad as your own.

Speaking of irrational hypocrisy, why did you drop the argument about Israel killing 300 children during OCL? You were pulling at some heart strings there.

Does it have anything to do with me reminding you of your past approval of Hamas using 16-17 year old "children" as militants?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
26. perhaps your confused
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 01:05 PM
Jan 2012

as I have never as you claim

Does it have anything to do with me reminding you of your past approval of Hamas using 16-17 year old "children" as militants?

now I suspect you will post a comment of mine that you will claim indicates that so let's see it huh?

but it nice to see that you claim the 300 children IDF killed during OCL were terrorists or at least the male ones were or something

once again however you level false accusations as a supposed method of discussion but it is a well know tactic here in the US to fling feces in order to keep the opponent defending themselves, we saw it frequently used from 2001-2008, is that your means of sidestepping the questions I asked you?


azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
28. Thanks let's see my comment in full shall we here it is
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 03:32 PM
Jan 2012

azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov-08-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. what was the age of induction for the Palmach

talk about "downplaying" child combatants


so you interpret that as supporting Hamas?

and the comment you were replying to wasn't mine

eta I had wondered if you would chose that comment but even I did not think you that desperate because there is literally nothing there you were leveling questionable accusations at someone else I'll post that too if you wish...........

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
29. I wrote that you should start there and read on...
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 04:17 PM
Jan 2012

Why did you bring up Palmach if not to excuse Hamas' behavior?

Do you now have a problem with 16-17 year old militants fighting with Hamas?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
30. I brought up the Palmach to point out your own hypocrisy when it comes to these issues
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 04:22 PM
Jan 2012

you cry salty tars over Hamas abusing youth but then as quickly justify IDF killing them and further imply that IDF is only killing youth involved in terrorism

as to my feeling about Hams supposedly using 16-17 year old U stated my feelings about that on the thread in question

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
31. Right, a typical deflection...
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 06:20 PM
Jan 2012

...and by deflecting you never have to criticize Hamas for its systematic child abuse, for example. You try making some silly moreal equivalency WRT Israel some 60 years ago rather than comment on Hamas' actions.

And it's not hypocrisy on my part that's at issue.

You're the one here crying salty tears over 300 dead Gazan children killed by the IDF, not me. You seem as upset about it now as you did 2 years ago. But the problem is that neither then or now do I see you taking issue with Hamas for its use of child militants. Just one deflection after another.

You seem to think I answered for you (reminds me of someone here who uses that one too) but I didn't. See, your evasiveness all this time goes to show you're being quite sanctimonious WRT 300 children in Gaza. They only matter to you if you can blame Israel. To blame Hamas for its horrible child abuse is not politically correct so you won't do it, right? It's okay, it's not just you. I realize it's a narrative buster and you can never be seen doing 'hasbara' for Israel by blaming Hamas.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
32. so in other words you already know its on the old thread you linked to
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 06:32 PM
Jan 2012

but hope either no one else does or what I will not link to it either talk about deflection or is it more like a gamble lets see first you make false claims that really you can't back up and now this ?

here ya go

azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Nov-11-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. yet more slight of hand?

your quote from jpost

Hamas also used children younger than 16 for intelligence gathering, tunnel digging, weapons smuggling, and collecting weapons from dead terrorists. In "summer camps" for example, children between 8-17 years old were supplied with military training and militant indoctrination with the intent of recruiting kids into Hamas' military.

supplied with military training is not the same as being used in combat as per your claim, now as for children under 16 being used for other purposes no I do not approve of Hamas or anyone else doing this however as one who so cares for these children does it not bother you that they imprisoned by Israel and sent before military tribunals, recently Israel began "special" military tribunals for those under 18 however that to is not consistent with international law regarding child soldiers does this not bother you?

______________________________________________________________________

If I read your reply correctly not only do you approve of IDF killing Palestinian kids you also have no problem with Israel imprisoning them and putting them on trial before military tribunals either

so are we done yet? or shall I post more to prove your claims to false?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
33. You show nothing but utter contempt for Israeli actions but WRT Hamas....
Sat Jan 21, 2012, 07:37 PM
Jan 2012

....you just disapprove of the way they abuse children in Gaza.



Can't unleash against Hamas as you do daily WRT Israel, right?

If I read your reply correctly not only do you approve of IDF killing Palestinian kids you also have no problem with Israel imprisoning them and putting them on trial before military tribunals either

I don't approve of the IDF killing kids intentionally. The fact their civilian ratio is better than any other nation goes to show they take great care not to kill kids.

Maybe I should just say I disapprove WRT the second part of your question. Convincing, isn't it?

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
41. as the record clearly shows Israel has no such compunctions?
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 07:46 AM
Jan 2012

what record is that?

Israel frequently refrains from attacking militants in close proximity of civilians. If Israel had no compunction about causing civilian deaths or casualties then why would they call people before bombing a house to warn them? Why would they use ground troops at all in places like Gaza or Jenin when they could more safely bomb it?

Why would Palestinian civilians gather on a rooftop and wave flags immediately following a phone call to evacuate because a targeted bombing was imminent if doing so would not cause the sortie to be aborted? Were they all suicidal? Why would they employ a strategy that relied on the opposite of your claim? Why would they STAKE THEIR VERY LIVES ON IT unless they were POSITIVE that Israel wouldn't bomb them?

Stationing military near to civilians to protect them is a war crime. Israel isn't actually under any obligation to refrain from attacking, that onus is squarely on Hamas under the Geneva Conventions. For all practical purposes they were human shields, the fact that Hamas did not tie them down is a difference without a distinction. Hamas hid among civilians on purpose. Do you think they warned everyone to evacuate. If Hamas had a weapons shop across the street from your house, and you were able to evacuate but chose not to are you really going to blame Israel for the deaths of those civilians when the shop was bombed?

BTW, according to your link, 6439 Palestinians died altogether while 3037 of them were not involved in hostilities. And these are B'tselem's figures, so they're going to be somewhat charitable wrt casualty figures. At any rate, that's clearly less than 1 out of 2. I have no idea how you tallied up your figures.

The Hasbara part comes in when Israel's defenders justify such attacks and use terms such as Human Shields that in this context are quite nonsensical as these people are shielding nothing they are in fact victims -of both sides

Not according to the geneva conventions they're not. They're victims of Hamas. Or is the GC Hasbara too?

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
43. huh?
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 08:57 AM
Jan 2012

I just copied them from the site you linked to.

All the "deaths by IDF" added up. And all the "known to be not involved" numbers added up.
I'm sorry if you don't like them. But you gave us the link.

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
44. Oh, I see the problem.
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 09:06 AM
Jan 2012

You used the wrong stat.
You used "known to be combatants" and then assumed everyone else to be a civilian. Can't do that. If there is such a discrepancy afterwards about whether or not the person was involved in the fighting then we can't have expected Israel to be able to differentiate then in the middle of a fight, can we?

We certainly can not tally anyone as a civilian unless they are actually known to be one.

edit: For example, during cast lead, there is a big discrepancy between those killed total and those known to be taking part because the policemen killed were listed separately, meaning you never added them in, even though most of them were also Hamas fighters as well. Listing a few hundred militants as civilians because they were wearing police uniforms when killed does not seem like a very accurate accounting to me.

BTW, any comments on the rest of my post?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
45. No I used the correct stat
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 10:15 AM
Jan 2012

and you can obfuscate all you want, what I notice that about your posts they jump from one thing to another but overall what becomes obvious is the caviler attitude towards Palestinian casualties no matter what age or sex

thank you

Shaktimaan

(5,397 posts)
46. Correct for your purposes perhaps.
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 12:44 PM
Jan 2012

But certainly far from honest statistics. You are actually counting official Hamas fighters as civilian casualties here. I suppose that's the correct stat for your agenda.

But I have a feeling that if you felt secure about them you wouldn't feel the need to accuse me of obfuscation and bigotry. (i.e.: It doesn't even matter if I'm right about the stats because the REAL issue is how little I care about the Palestinian children who were killed.) Classy.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. If they actually were human shields we'd be seeing complaints from Israel that they can not bomb
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 07:17 PM
Jan 2012

suspected terrorist sites due to the presence of civilians but instead we see comments like the ones here

 

holdencaufield

(2,927 posts)
10. Or....
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 08:22 PM
Jan 2012

... Maybe they'll get it through their head that human shields don't work.

Bin Laden got that through his head.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
11. They are human shields. See post #9...
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 08:38 PM
Jan 2012

As for you implying that the IDF is looking for any excuse to murder civilians, you know that the IDF is better than any other military on the planet WRT consideration of civilians during assymetric warfare.

So why do you pretend they're among the worst?

========

Here's an excerpt from a recent article about Israel's Delilah missile..

3. The Delilah missile:
“Honestly, it’s the most amazing weapon in the Air Force today.” – These are the words an IAF officer used to describe the Delilah and it’s easy to understand why he is right.
For many years the Delilah was one of the IDF’s biggest secrets, quietly undergoing improvement after improvement, until it became what it is today. Delilah is a cruise missile but it possesses some very unique capabilities that set it apart from the rest.
A typical cruise missile is launched and finds its pre-programmed target with the help of its navigational system. The navigator can send the missile commands and make small adjustments in its flight path, but once the missile begins its final approach no changes can be made. If the missile attacks a target that moves in the last moment or even a wrong target, the missile simply misses with possibly devastating consequences. This is where the Delilah’s special abilities come into play.

Patience is a virtue - The Delilah can loiter around the target area and wait until the right moment to attack (Photo: IMI)
Let’s say Delilah is approaching a target and in the last moment the navigator sees on the images transmitted from the missile’s camera that there are civilians in the target zone. All he needs to do is push a button and Delilah aborts its attack, returns to the air and keeps loitering in the target zone until it receives new instructions. Delilah can also be launched in the direction of a suspected target and be instructed to patrol the area and search for its target, effectively functioning as a surveillance drone. Once the navigator identifies the target, he instructs Delilah to approach it. If the target was correctly identified Delilah will attack. If it was not the correct target, a push of a button is enough and Delilah will abort its approach and continue to search for the real target.


http://idfspokesperson.com/2012/01/19/5-more-incredible-technologies-used-by-the-idf/

Now why on earth would Israel go through all that trouble and HUGE amounts of money to protect Palestinian civilians if they're as bad as you try to portray them?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
2. HRW, Amnesty Slam Attack on Gaza Rights Activist, Call for Probe
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 04:25 PM
Jan 2012

In statements released late on Wednesday, the two rights watchdogs expressed shock at the attack on Mahmoud Abu Rahma, international relations director at the Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip.

"These attempts to silence a human rights defender are another attack on freedom of expression in Gaza, and send a chilling message to activists," said Amnesty's interim Middle East director Ann Harrison.

"The authorities in Gaza must ensure the safety of Mahmoud Abu Rahma and that an independent and impartial investigation into this assault is completed as soon as possible. The perpetrators must be brought to justice," she added.

Human Rights Watch's Middle East director Sarah Leah Whitson urged Gaza's Hamas government to take the incident seriously.

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/27078-hrw-amnesty-slam-attack-on-gaza-rights-activist-call-for-probe

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
5. Well, that's the least Amnesty and HRW can do. I don't even have to read....
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 04:47 PM
Jan 2012

...their reports on this to know that they didn't touch the activist's claim WRT Hamas human shielding. After all, these 2 "Human Rights" groups have been running interference for Hamas for years, claiming there's no evidence Hamas does any such thing.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
3. Hamas to investigate attack on human rights activist
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 04:26 PM
Jan 2012

The Gaza government on Thursday vowed to find the perpetrators of an attack on a human rights activist who was stabbed in Gaza City.

Mahmoud Abu Rahma was attacked by masked men and stabbed multiple times while walking back from his brother's house on Friday night, he told Ma'an.

"There were three masked men following me, I ran quickly toward the house but I tripped on the stairs and fell over. They began attacking me, stabbing me in my right thigh, three times above my right knee, my back and left shoulder, and cutting off part of my hand," Abu Rahma told MADA, the Palestinian center for media freedoms.

He had received death threats shortly after authoring an op-ed calling for legal redress for victims of misfiring and other operational mistakes by resistance groups as well as violations by Palestinian governments

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=453817

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
35. One week later and mainstream news sources aren't touching this one...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 07:23 PM
Jan 2012

Funny that.



It's only news (and there would be saturation coverage worldwide, UN condemnation, etc.) if Israel violated this activist's rights rather than Hamas.

Hamas does it and journalists are silent. Either running interference for Hamas or too fearful of upsetting Hamas and endangering their own lives.

Pathetic.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
36. well I guess thats mainstream news always protecting Hamas because we do know Mahmoud abu Rahma
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:25 PM
Jan 2012

attackers were Hamas, well actually we don't know but saying so good enough, right?

However reality is this abu Rahma is still alive last April when Vittorio Araigoni was murdered it certainly did make international news and in the world of what is news and what isn't one Palestinian getting stabbed by another and surviving certainly isn't considered that big a deal unlike a European humanitarian worker getting kidnapped and killed by Palestinians, it may not be right but that is the way of things an analogy would be local news which doesn't report every fender bender even ones where someone gets injured unless it is a major multi-car deal that blocks a main thorough fare but let somone get killed on any little back road and its news

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
37. Oh yes, Vittorio Arrigoni. More proof of press coverup...
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 08:42 PM
Jan 2012

He was a pro-Hamas, anti-Israel bigot falsely portrayed as a peace activist...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/http:/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=349347&mesg_id=349402

Perfect example of a humanitarian racist.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
38. you were going on about international media not paying attention to abu Rahma being stabbed
Tue Jan 24, 2012, 09:21 PM
Jan 2012

your theory got shot down it is simple common sense. so skip you right along to some smear of Arrigoni press cover up?!?? Just because they do not agree with your assessment of him?

sorry your theories about the media just do not work, will we be seeing more from lets guess PJ's Media? I'm guessing not, right now anyways , HurryUpHarry? MEMRI PalWatch ?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
39. And they're still not paying attention to Abu Rahma...
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 08:56 AM
Jan 2012

Last edited Wed Jan 25, 2012, 10:14 AM - Edit history (1)

You think the press would ignore it if Israeli authorities violated his rights?

My assessment of Arrigoni is spot on. I supplied you with links that point to his vulgar antisemitic views. Nothing new WRT the press as, by and large, they still refer to insanely hateful Mavi Marmara thugs caught on tape as humanitarians, and have deliberately ignored what should have been a major scandal WRT Mearsheimer's endorsement of Atzmon. Just a few examples of many...

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
40. you supplied me with a link to your own comment and abu Rahma has already been explained
Wed Jan 25, 2012, 10:33 AM
Jan 2012

that's how we got Arrigoni remember? You've been told before that your(?) opinion is different from fact. You act as though Atzmon is a household name I've got news most people have never heard of him or his book which was given far more publicity via the 'outrage' than it would have been if nothing had been said

as to abu Rahma the press ignores the violation(s) of Palestinian rights by IDF pr Israeli's on a daily basis nothing new there either

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