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Mon Dec 12, 2011, 10:44 AM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (Mosby) on Mon Feb 6, 2012, 06:37 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
Mosby Dec 2011 OP
shira Dec 2011 #1
Mosby Dec 2011 #2
shira Dec 2011 #3
vminfla Dec 2011 #6
shira Dec 2011 #7
vminfla Dec 2011 #9
DissedByBush Dec 2011 #10
Ruby the Liberal Dec 2011 #4
Dick Dastardly Dec 2011 #8
vminfla Dec 2011 #5

Response to Mosby (Original post)

Mon Dec 12, 2011, 11:10 AM

1. The video you embedded in yr post reminds me of Pallywood...


Can you imagine the outrage if mainstream Israeli and American newspapers started to blatantly skew and fabricate news totally in favor of Israel and against Palestinians?

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Response to shira (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 12, 2011, 02:03 PM

2. Hopefully people will watch the video

It's really sad to see what passes for journalism these days, and I'm not just talking about IP.

It's remarkable to me that people who watch Fox News for example are LESS knowledgable than people who don't watch the news at all. The RW have been moving towards this propoganda approach for decades but it seems like it's working it's way into presumed neutral news sites like reuters and the AP as well.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 12, 2011, 02:17 PM

3. Good point about Faux News...


Hilarious but sad.

But as bad as Faux News and Arutz Sheva are, I'm not sure they're as intentionally dishonest as the MSM is on the mideast, for example.

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Response to shira (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:23 AM

6. Cognitive dissonance


I do not believe that Reuters and AFP believe that they are propagandists. They suffer from misplaced western colonial guilt and buying into a package of arab victimhood. Granted, there are many, such as Kristof following in the legacy of Walter Duranty that paint a dishonest picture and even some wholesale propagandists like EI and mondoweiss. However, these fringe groups are not taken seriously.

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Response to vminfla (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 12:38 PM

7. I don't believe it's misplaced western colonial guilt. These reporters are...


...propagandists for authoritarian dictators and their reporting just ensures more of the same happens and tens of millions suffer. Remember the Vanity Fair puff piece from a few months ago on the Assad family?

Worse, as bad as the situation was leading to the Arab Spring, reporters are now pretending the MB is moderate.

Imagine that. Now, how the hell does that do anything but ensure decades of more misery for tens of millions throughout the mideast?

IMO, this type of reporting is evil.

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Response to shira (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 21, 2011, 10:27 AM

9. No doubt, the AFP, NYT, and Reuters are promoting an agenda


And if you choose to limit your news sources to these propagandists, you will have a jaded view of the world. Fortunately, there are other news sources out there that are not surrogates for Wafa.

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Response to shira (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 22, 2011, 01:50 PM

10. They are complicit


They purposely keep taking modified, misrepresented and staged photographs from the same Palestinian sources.

They even take some of the worst Photoshop jobs I've ever seen. For a few of them I caught the Photoshop job at first glance, yet the photos somehow innocently got past these seasoned editors. Yeah, right.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 12, 2011, 09:54 PM

4. Remarkable, yes, but by design.

What gets me is that once Faux says it, people get it wedged in their brain as fact and you couldn't pry that bullshit out of there with a crowbar.

I was in the Middle East for Faux' cable launch. Suffice to say, people I spoke with were shocked at how biased they were in their coverage. This was 2003 if I recall, and the people whose feedback I received were Israeli.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 21, 2011, 12:55 AM

8. Remember the pic of a screaming IDF soldier with his baton over a bloody brutally beaten Palestinian

on the Temple Mount at the very start of the Intifada 2. It was an AP photo ran in the NY times and many other papers around the world.

The only problem was it didnt happen on the Temple Mount and the bloodied victim was not a Palestinian but an American Jew pulled from a taxi and being beaten by 40 Palestinians until the soldier came to his rescue.

On September 30, as rioting continued in Israel and the Palestinian Authority territories, media reporting overwhelmingly cast events as involving frustrated Arabs equipped with mere stones facing heavily-armed Israelis. A vivid image that seemed to capture perfectly this story line ran in newspapers worldwide. In many it was printed in full color.

A grimacing Israeli policeman, baton raised, stood over a young man, brutally bloodied. A caption read: “An Israeli policeman and a Palestinian on the Temple Mount.”

But the victim here was not Palestinian and the angry Israeli had not beaten him. (Nor were they photographed on the Temple Mount – that too was an error.) The policeman was, in fact, protecting Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish-American student who had just been assaulted along with two friends while driving in Jerusalem in a taxi.

Arabs had stoned the vehicle and its occupants, dragging Tuvia out to beat and stab him. Another of the Americans was also severely attacked and hospitalized. Tuvia broke free from his assailants and, though he had lost his glasses and could not see well, fled toward the Israeli policeman. At that point a photographer snapped the picture.

When the facts emerged, many found the AP blunder and the widespread publication of the false lurid image further evidence of the media tilt against Israel. Many saw in the inversion of events an instance of media unwillingness to present the vulnerability of the Israeli side and brutality of the Palestinians.

The beating of Tuvia did not, obviously, negate Palestinian losses in riots against Israelis, but it illustrated the personal physical attacks Israeli Jews have long encountered and the frequent silence of the media. Here it was all the worse; the beaten Jew had been transformed into an Arab. The Jewish boy’s suffering was used to evoke sympathy for the Palestinian cause.


On September 30, 2000, The New York Times, Associated Press and other major media outlets published a photo of a young man — bloodied and battered — crouching beneath a club-wielding Israeli policeman. The caption identified him as a Palestinian victim of the recent riots — with the clear implication that the Israeli soldier is the one who beat him.

The victim’s true identity was revealed when Dr. Aaron Grossman of Chicago sent the following letter to the Times:

"Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount — that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob."

Even more remarkable is that Arab groups have adopted Grossman’s photo to use in their own propaganda campaigns, cynically using a bloodied Jew as a symbol of the Palestinian struggle.

An official Egyptian government website is using the Grossman photo on its “Photo Gallery”.

And the Palestinian Information Center, www.islam.net, incorporated Tuvia’s photo onto its homepage banner,


Tuvia Grossman’s in-depth, first-person account

Here's how it all happened:

It was the eve of Rosh Hashana, and I hailed a taxi with two of my friends to go visit the Western Wall. Along the way, the driver took a shortcut through one of the Arab neighborhoods in Jerusalem. We turned a corner and suddenly there were about 40 Palestinians surrounding the car. Before we knew it, huge rocks had smashed all the windows of the taxi.

Some of the Palestinians pulled open the door and dragged me from the vehicle. About 10 attackers jumped on top of me, punching and kicking me. I crouched to the ground, and tried to cover my face to protect myself as much as possible. All I could see were a flurry of sneakers kicking me in the face.

Then I felt a strong pair of hands grabbing me, and I uncovered my face because I thought someone was trying to help me. But it was just another Palestinian; he held the back of my head and punched me square in the face. I fell flat on the ground and the Palestinians jumped on top of me again. One of them stabbed me in the back of my leg, ripping through muscles and tendons. Two other Palestinians held my head so I couldn’t move, while two more bashed rocks onto my head... again and again and again.

By this time the beating had gone on for about eight minutes. I had already lost three pints of blood and was losing consciousness. I said "Shema Yisrael" ― the declaration of faith that a Jew says before he dies. I tried not to black out, because I was sure if I did it would be the end.

So I yelled at the top of my lungs. The Palestinians were startled momentarily, and I was able to get up and run. Unfortunately, I am heavily nearsighted and my contact lenses had fallen out. So there I was ― barely able to see a thing, with blood pouring down my face and my leg badly wounded ― being chased up a hill by 40 Palestinians throwing rocks at me.

It was a miracle, but I somehow outran them and reached a gas station where Israeli soldiers were posted.

I collapsed on the ground, and that's when a group of freelance photographers started snapping pictures. An Israeli policeman was protecting me, yelling at the Palestinians to back off from finishing the lynching. But the photo ― sent throughout the world by the Associated Press ― identified me as a Palestinian. The obvious implication was that the Israeli policeman had just beaten me. In truth, it was the total opposite. I was a Jewish victim of Palestinian attackers.

It's bad enough to be beaten bloody, get stitches up and down my head, and have my leg so severely stabbed that therapy is required to regain use of it. But to be used as a pawn in the media war, as part of the Palestinian propaganda to gain international sympathy, well, that hurts even more.

When a photo gets published, there are many links in the chain, and in this case, I don't know where the fault for the garbled caption lies. But it is deeply disturbing that the New York Times, Associated Press, and everyone else in-between assumed that if it's a victim, it must be a Palestinian.


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Response to shira (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 13, 2011, 09:38 PM

5. the outtakes are hillarious though


Arabs were parading a funeral procession through the streets when the pall bearers dropped the casket. The "martyr" jumped right up and hopped back into the casket for the rest of the march. Hillarious, just hillarious.

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