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Sat May 25, 2019, 01:59 PM

The world faces many tragedies. The lack of a Palestinian state ranks low on the list

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kirchick-israel-palestinian-conflict-20190524-story.html

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Reply The world faces many tragedies. The lack of a Palestinian state ranks low on the list (Original post)
aranthus May 2019 OP
wasupaloopa May 2019 #1
Fresh_Start May 2019 #2
Mosby May 2019 #3
wasupaloopa May 2019 #4
Mosby May 2019 #5
wasupaloopa May 2019 #6
Mosby May 2019 #7
Post removed May 2019 #8
Israeli May 2019 #9
Israeli May 2019 #10
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #12
Mosby Jul 2019 #13
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #14
Mosby Jul 2019 #15
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #16
aranthus Jul 2019 #17
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #18
aranthus Jul 2019 #19
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #20
Israeli Jul 2019 #21
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #22
Israeli Jul 2019 #23
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #24
Everyman Jackal Jul 2019 #11

Response to aranthus (Original post)

Sat May 25, 2019, 02:29 PM

1. I was born the year the Palestinians were moved from their homeland.

 

I have never seen the justice in that event. Just as I have never seen the justice of keeping France in Vietnam or England in India. Seems we pick our favorites and make rationalizations to support it.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #1)

Sat May 25, 2019, 03:35 PM

2. +1 nt

nt

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #1)

Sat May 25, 2019, 06:09 PM

3. the Palestinians were not "moved"

They and 7 Arab armies attacked Israel when they declared independence and lost.

Jews have been living in and around Israel for more than 3000 years, they are indigenous, unlike your comparisons.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #3)

Sat May 25, 2019, 06:16 PM

4. Keep your bull shit to your self

 

I have no need for that 3000 years shit.

The UN fucked over a nation and it was criminal

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #4)

Sat May 25, 2019, 06:19 PM

5. It's history, not BS.

Surely your aware that the Arabs started a war of Genocide, and they lost.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #5)

Sat May 25, 2019, 06:22 PM

6. No it is bull shit The people who formed Israel came from Europe after

 

after the war. The people living there at the time were MOVED! As we moved indigenous people off their land here.

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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #6)

Sat May 25, 2019, 06:31 PM

7. here's a link to a very balanced review of the history

http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#The%20British%20Mandate

The large majority of Jews in Israel come from the Levant and Mahgreb. They are called Mizrahi Jews. They are NOT from Europe, but the European Jews have every right to live in their ancestral homeland, like any other indigenous people.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #7)


Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #6)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:05 PM

9. Shalom....

I'm a 68 year old Israeli sabra ( means born here ) socialist atheist kibbutznik , my grandparents founded the kibbutz I still live on.
I suggest you do some reading .
Start here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz

Hint ...
"The first kibbutz, established in 1909"


Which war were you referring to ?
The American civil war ??



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Response to wasupaloopa (Reply #6)

Mon May 27, 2019, 04:21 PM

10. Just to rub it in a little bit more .....

Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilu

" The wave of pogroms of 18811884 and anti-Semitic May Laws of 1882 introduced by Tsar Alexander III of Russia prompted mass emigration of Jews from the Russian Empire. On 6 July 1882, the first group of Bilu pioneers arrived in Ottoman Palestine. ."


And

Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

" The large-scale immigration of Jews to Palestine began in 1882."

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Response to Mosby (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 10:39 AM

12. If the UN voted to give 1/4 of the land in the US to the indigenous people

 

who lived on it for 15,000 years do you think that would be alright?

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 11:04 AM

13. Every NA tribe in the US had and still can claim ancestral lands.

In Arizona, where I live, 27% of the state is Native American land.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #13)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 01:41 PM

14. Sorry but the whole of the Americas was populated by

 

indigenous people only. The White people from Europe came over and took this land from the indigenous people. The indigenous people ended up with very little because they were attacked and killed by White people. Europeans have no right to this land. The land left for the indigenous people is but a tiny fraction of the land they lived on and or used such as for hunting buffalo and moving North and South as the glaciers came and receded. They should receive at a minimum a 25% share of all the oil and all the minerals taken from the land, not just where they are living now. The Europeans treated the indigenous people the same as the Nazis did to the people they enslaved and killed.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #14)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 01:45 PM

15. None of that has anything to do with the Jewish people

Living in their ancestral homeland.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 02:04 PM

16. No it has everything to do with you.

 

I am trying to show you that the Palestinians and the indigenous people of the Americas fought for their homelands. They both fought for and are fighting for their rights. Even now the Israeli government refuse to live by international law. The Israeli government will kill anyone that gets in their way even allies. I wonder what the Israeli government will do when there are more Arabs than Jews in Israel.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #12)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:11 PM

17. It wouldn't matter.

The UN has no authority and no power to give anything to anyone. That means Israel/Palestine. The idea that the UN "gave" Israel to the Jews is a myth. It didn't give Israel to the Jews, didn't authorize Israel, and generally had nothing to do with Israel's creation. All the UN did was to suggest a resolution of the already existing dispute between the Jews and the Arabs. The UN can suggest whatever it wants. The Palestinians were free to reject the suggestion and to start a war to drive out the Jews, which is what they did. The catch is that they have to live with the consequences.

As far as "giving" part of the US to Native Americans, the problem is that there is already a sovereign country here called the USA. Sovereign countries tend to object when someone else tries to take their land, and being sovereign, they have the power to make that objection stick. The Arabs of Palestine (they weren't called Palestinians until decades later) were never sovereign.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 05:36 PM

18. If the UN had no authority then who gave the land to the Jews?

 

The countries that make up the UN so it was the UN. The countries that voted for making Israel a Jewish country did so under the auspices of the UN so the UN did create a Jewish state so the UN if it wanted to, could put it in front of its members to give the indigenous people 1/4 of all the Americas. What is the difference? It doesn't matter if it is sovereign countries or not it is stolen land that should be given back to its rightful owners. When the US became a nation it became a rogue nation killing the rightful inhabitants and stealing their lands. It was allowed to do this because they were White and held the indigenous people as inferior. They further proved it by allowing slavery to continue.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 07:37 PM

19. Who gave France to the French?

Who gave Italy to the Italians? Who gave China to the Chinese? It wasn't the UN. If you think a vote of the UN does anything in the real world, then you really don't understand how the world works. No one gave Israel to the Jews. The Jews built a country, as they had every right to do.

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Response to aranthus (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 08:15 PM

20. You mean after their God told them to kill every man, woman and child

 

of the people who lived there. And the French lived in France. The Italians lived in Italy. And I know how the real world works. It works the way that White men want it to work. Why do you think there is an Israel? Why do you think that Russia voted for Israel? Do you think that the Russians felt bad about all those Jews dying in WWII? Don't you know how the world works? When there is peace in the world rich people make a lot of money. When there is turmoil in the world they make even more money and control more of the world. The Middle East isn't controlled by Israel or the Arabs. Do you know why Israel attacked the USS Liberty and with whose okay? When the USS Liberty was attacked do you know why the American Navy did not come to her aid? Do you know why they didn't come to her aid? Do you know what was the only country that sent a destroyer to her aid? Do you know why that country came to her aid? Do you know who would have been blamed if the USS Liberty had been sunk with all hands lost? Just for information. The USS Liberty was not spying on Israel. All of her linguists were Russian linguists and they were spying on the Russians. Just to confuse some people a story was leaked that the Israelis thought the ship was spying on them and it was attacked because they wanted the Golan Heights and didn't want the US to know. First Israel knew that the USS Liberty was not spying on them and even it had been there wasn't any reason to attack her since Israel was being spied on from land-based military installations. Ever wonder why the NSA has never released the tapes of the Israeli military giving orders to the fighters and naval vessels? I bet that the records of every man on the ship are still flagged. Mine have been flagged since October 8, 1964.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 14, 2019, 02:28 PM

21. Im really confused .......

...so far I got you don't like Israelis , Americans or " White men " ...not sure about Europeans ???

Who are you blaming for the USS Liberty incident ?
The Russians ????

I'm totally ignoring the " You mean after their God told them to kill every man, woman and child " comment because seriously there is enough racism going on here without bringing religion into it .

If you want us to take you seriously , which I admit I am having problems with ..then tell us a little about yourself ,
for instance .which country/nation/race do you belong to ??

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Response to Israeli (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 14, 2019, 03:21 PM

22. One at a time.

 

I don't like any group of people whether it be by Race, which there actually is no such thing, Religion, Color, Country or Sex. I like individuals. The USS Liberty was attacked by Israel with the help of the American government. The idea was to sink an American naval vessel with all hands lost that could be blamed on Egypt. That is why the USS Liberty was not protected by the US Navy in the Mediterranean and why it was protected by a Russian destroyer. I brought up the Old Testament because many Israelis use that to legitimize the Aliyah. I am of Jewish decent we can trace our family back to Turkey. From there we traveled to Kiev, Warsaw and Vienna. We ended up in London and came to the US in the early 1900s living in Philadelphia and Boston. I enlisted in the Army in 1963 and was honorably separated in 1967. I was a Russian linguist in the Army Security Agency doing classified work for the National Security Agency. Unless you know what the NSA TOP SECRET CODEWORD was on that date you won't know what was true or not. I will tell you that it was not UMBRA.

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Response to Everyman Jackal (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 15, 2019, 03:56 AM

23. I know next to nothing .....

...about the USS Liberty however I find it hard to believe that the American government would allow/help
us to attack one of their own ships .

Correction : many religious Jews use quotes from their religious sources to legitimize Aliyah, the Old Testament is not one of those .

My grandparents were Russian and Polish , spoke mainly Yiddish together . We were forbidden to talk anything except Hebrew growing up ...picked my English up from volunteers on my kibbutz .
Its amazing that your Russian language skills kept so strong thru so many moves , today in Israel English is the second language for most Israelis .

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Response to Israeli (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 15, 2019, 07:25 AM

24. You might want to read about some of the autrocities that were performed by the American govenment.

 

If you have a strong stomach read about the forced sterilizations of women and the radiation tests on mentally retarded children and more. English is the second language in many countries. I learned Russian in the army and was a Russian linguist for the National Security Agency while in the army.

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Response to aranthus (Original post)

Sat Jul 6, 2019, 01:25 AM

11. Israel does not have any morals.

 

With premeditation, it attacked an allied naval vessel killing 34 members of its crew. I was supportive of Israel until my birthday June 8, 1967. Now it wants to annex the Golan Heights against international law. This makes it a rogue nation.

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