Netanyahu's Apartheid Vision for Israel's Future

[Purveyor]

In the real world, outside the realm of speechmaking, Netanyahu is only ready to hold empty and aimless talks with the Palestinians.

Haaretz Editorial Oct 29, 2015 6:39 AM

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented his current political vision to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee this week. While saying that that he does not want a binational state, Netanyahu stressed that Israel “must control the entire area for the foreseeable future.” He explained that he was prepared to divide the land but “the other side is unwilling,” and that the Middle East is subject to Islamic religious influences that preclude any possibility for peace.

On the face of it, this position does not seem extremist. It’s accepted by most Israeli Jews, according to multiple surveys that have been conducted over the last 15 years, ever since the Camp David summit. Most people support the idea of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but believe that it is not practical since there is “no partner” on the other side. The same majority, including Netanyahu, opposes the notion of a binational state with equal rights for all its citizens, Jews and Palestinians alike.

Netanyahu has cleaved to this line for his entire tenure: Verbal consent to dividing the land – which distinguishes him from the extreme right and from settler leaders – while in practice adopting policies that thwart the realization of such partitioning. He has consistently refused to talk about future borders with the Palestinians, demanding that they recognize Israel as “a Jewish state,” developing and expanding settlements across the West Bank and presenting Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas as an enemy and instigator to violence.

In the real world, outside the realm of speechmaking, Netanyahu is only ready to hold empty and aimless talks with the Palestinians, or to discuss “small steps to reduce tension,” without relinquishing any control on the ground.

more...

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.682912

[geek tragedy]

1. he pretty much represents the Israeli public opinion on these matters.

In theory willing to be reasonable, in practice committed to doing as little as possible. More concerned with maintaining the pretext of trying to solve the problem than actually solving the problem, because the view is the problem is already largely solved and any solution would be worse than what exists now.

He's loathsome, but he's in office because he's giving the voters what they want.

[oberliner]

3. Not even remotely

Israeli public opinion is as divided as American public opinion.

Netanyahu no more represents the views of Israelis as Ted Cruz (or whoever emerges from the Republican clown car) represents the views of Americans.

[geek tragedy]

4. Public polling again and again shows the Israeli public saying they favor

the two-state solution, but strongly opposing any actions that would be necessary for the two-state solution to happen, and a preference for the status quo over any offered course of action.

Withdrawing from the Jordan valley? Non-starter for Israelis.

Evacuating 140,000 settlers outside the main blocs? Non-starter for Israelis.

Granting a Palestinian state rights to Jerusalem? Non-starter for Israelis.

Letting the Palestinians control their own borders and air space? Non-starter for Israelis.

it's like people who say they favor losing weight, but strongly oppose exercise and eating less.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.621568

According to the survey, 74.3 percent of Israeli Jews oppose the creation of a Palestinian state along 1967 lines.

That number increases to 74.9 percent if the creation of a Palestinian state would require Israel's withdrawal from the Jordan Valley, and inches up to 76.2 percent against such a state if it meant Jerusalem would be divided.

Some 75 percent of respondents also said they would oppose replacing Israel Defense Forces troops with international forces in the Jordan Valley. Among left-wing Israelis, 51.5 percent oppose that idea.

The Israeli public is committed to apartheid. Even the left is barely against it.

[oberliner]

5. The People Want Peace

The People Want Peace
By Ben-Dror Yemini, Maariv NRG
13.12.13
Via Maariv NRG [click her for the original article in hebrew]
translation by the Geneva Initiative

A surprising survey

A few days ago an extensive public opinion poll was presented at the Saban Forum, which was commissioned by researchers at the University of Maryland. The respondents, Palestinians and Israelis, were presented with a peace agreement which included the following parameters: withdrawal to the 67 lines, while retaining 3-4% including the settlements blocs; a corridor between the West Bank and Gaza; a division of Jerusalem on a demographic basis, with an international, Israeli and Palestinian regime in the Old city; A refugee solution based on compensation and a return to the Palestinian state, with a limited number being allowed to return to Israel; a non-militarized Palestinian state, with an international force like NATO; Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish State and a state of all its citizens; Israel and the Arab and Muslim states would establish full diplomatic relations and open trade; and Israelis and Palestinians would relinquish all claims pertaining to the conflict.

Multiple surveys in the last decade have reported different and conflicting results, sometimes extremely different. In the last few years one direction has become apparent: Mutual despair. Unexpectedly, given this pessimism, the results of this survey are surprising. 54% of Israelis and 41% of Palestinians supported the package deal presented to them. Could there be an Israeli majority for Yossi Beilin, Shalom Achshav and the Geneva Initiative? For real? Yes, there really could be. Amongst Likud voters, almost a third are prepared for a far-reaching compromise. That is, on the condition that it is the right which leads the process. The problem is not peace. The problem is the peace camp. And that's not all. The poll is even more optimistic than first appears. When the survey respondents who opposed an agreement where asked if they would change their opinion if the other side supported it, the results improved, dramatically. For the Palestinians it jumped 18% to 59% support. For Israelis, support jumped 9% to 63%. These are indeed very encouraging results. We need to add to these results the fact that, on the basis of prior experience, support for an agreement before it is signed is always lower than after signing. It turns out that the question is not: "is there an outline for an agreement?" nor is it: "Will there public support?". The answers to both these questions are positive. The questions is: Do we have brave leadership. Currently, the answer is negative.

http://www.geneva-accord.org/mainmenu/the-people-want-peace

[geek tragedy]

8. if only the Israelis got to vote for their leadership . . .

http://www.haaretz.com/beta/1.601996

Two additional reservations also arise from the latest Haaretz survey. The first is that the Israeli public is seemingly unfamiliar with the geopolitical situation. When the implications of partition and the specifics of an agreement were presented to the respondents – “The establishment of a Palestinian state within the 1967 boundaries with border modifications, most of the settlements to be annexed to Israel, Jerusalem to be divided and no return of refugees” – support for the two-state solution plummeted to 35 percent, with 58 percent replying in the negative. This time, the term “prime minister” was omitted as the individual who backs the agreement. The implication of this is that great responsibility falls on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, as large segments of the public view his acceptance of an agreement involving partition as a precondition for their support.

The second, equally important, reservation is that the same public that says it will support a partition agreement if it’s supported by the prime minister doesn’t actually believe the prime minister’s stated intention to arrive at any such agreement. Thus, 54 percent replied in the negative and only 37 percent in the affirmative to the question, “Do you believe Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when he says he wants to promote a peace agreement with two states for two nations?”

...

In the question that presented possible long-term solutions, partition of the country was the most popular, preferred by 28 percent of those polled. At the same time, two other possibilities were not far behind: “Continuation of the present situation” is favored by 25 percent; and an apartheid state model – “one state, in which the Palestinians will have limited rights,” as the question phrased it – is preferred by 23 percent of Israelis. Only 10 percent said they would opt for a state in which all citizens will have equal rights.

Overall, it would seem that the Israeli public is more apprehensive about granting equal rights to the Palestinians than about returning territories. Fifty-six percent said they are against granting the Palestinians full rights in the event of annexation.

...

The question of what would be preferable – a peace agreement that would require the evacuation of settlements, or continuation of the settlements without an agreement – drew almost identical responses: 45 percent are in favor of an agreement and settlement evacuation; 43 percent are in favor of the current status quo with the settlements.

[oberliner]

9. Sadly, voters often vote based on fear (see George W Bush 2004)

One would think Americans would have booted out Bush-Cheney after their first term, but somehow they managed to win.

In spite of the fact that the majority of the American people were against the Iraq War.

[geek tragedy]

10. Most Americans supported the Iraq war.

Until 2006 that is.

Demographic trends in the US are more liberal, more secular. Quite the opposite in Israel.

He received quite the mandate for his racism and promise to uphold apartheid. That was the key to his victory.

Elections have consequences.

The Israelis will go for a two-state solution only if someone committed to apartheid proposes it. In other words, support for the two-state solution is a sham.

[oberliner]

11. You are wrong

In June/July of 2004, 4 months before Election Day, Americans thought the invasion of Iraq was a mistake by a 54-44 margin.

You are also completely wrong about secularism in Israel.

Israel Among the Least Religious Countries in the World

Israel is located in one of the most religious regions in the world, but Israelis have little faith, according to a recent WIN/Gallup poll that took the religious pulse of 65 countries.

Less than one-third of Israelis say they are religious, which is well below the norm in western Europe. It is however about equal with the level of religiosity in England and Scandinavia, the poll found, which are among the least religious areas in the world.

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.651616

[geek tragedy]

12. I said the trend was for them to be less secular.

In any event, at this point it's up to the Israelis to prove they aren't a racist nation intent on perpetrating apartheid. After rewarding Bibi's explicit racism multiple times, the benefit of the doubt is no longer available.

[oberliner]

13. Fair enough

But, even so, they will never even come close to the level of religiosity that one finds in the United States.

One of the most religious sectors in Israel are Palestinian citizens of Israel, incidentally.

[shira]

14. The Israeli people want security and peace. Apparently that's too much to ask for....

....according to all the hostile critics of Israel who scream 'Apartheid'.

Once Israelis see that the Palestinians really are committed to peace - like they did with Sadat of Egypt and Hussein of Jordan - there will be peace. They will throw Netanyahu out and put someone in his place to make the deal if they have to. History shows this as Israelis voted out Shamir for Rabin & Netanyahu for Barak....in order to bring about a peace deal.

Also, Israelis will never allow the situation to ever become 'Apartheid'.

[geek tragedy]

15. sure, sure, everything is the Palestinians' fault nt

[shira]

16. Well what gives you the impression the Palestinians want genuine peace....

....with their Jewish neighbors?

Everything we see from Hamas and the PA points to psychopathic Jew hatred, not peace.

[libodem]

2. .

[TubbersUK]

6. +1

[FlatBaroque]

7. How perfectly appropro that this vile piece of filth

is sponsored by a criminal casino magnate.