Palestinians will never have a state and will be ruled by Israel — says Israeli minister

A large crowd of Palestinians cheered a Hamas leader's pledge on Tuesday never to recognize Israel and celebrated the Islamist movement's 23rd anniversary at a Gaza rally punctuated by sonic booms from Israeli jets.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, whose group runs the Gaza Strip, said the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) headed by Western-backed President Mahmoud Abbas had made a "historic mistake" by recognizing Israel.

"We said it five years ago and we say it now ... we will never, we will never, we will never recognize Israel," Haniyeh told the gathering which some organizers said was attended by around 250,000 people.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/12/14/us-palestinians-hamas-idUSTRE6BD2XW20101214

This is the bigoted face of Israeli government, ober, but you knew that...

Are you saying that Hamas = Israeli government?

Haniyeh became the Palestinian PM shortly thereafter.

I can always count on you to run interference against the painful truth of the apartheid state.

The current Israeli administration is filled with RWers, reminiscent of the Bush/Cheney administration.

But please do bring up hamas again if you need to deflect.

The one before that was. The one before that was not. And then the one before that was. And the two before that were not.

They tend to alternate in much the same way the US does.

Edit to add: Going by when the PM's change.

You wouldn't say Bush and Obama were the same, would you?

Have I missed something?

He was PM from 2006 - 2009.

Kadima and Labor were the two biggest parties in the government during that time.

The Jewish Home and UTJ were not part of the governing coalition.

were easily offset by having Yisrael Beiteinu in the coalition.

So, only right-wing goverments since 2001...

Yet here you are on Democratic Underground.

I'm trying to imagine Ariel Sharon as being an American Democrat, and I just can't.

No.

Thank you.

It was a centrist party made up of people who left Likud specifically because it was right-wing.

In fact, the party was founded on the principle of removing all the settlements from Gaza and trying to negotiate an agreement with the Palestinians.

The second largest party in Olmert's government was Labor. Kadima and Labor has 48 seats between them.

Yisrael Beitenu was completely sidelined and, in fact, left the coalition in 2008 because their positions were being ignored.

Perhaps it's because I grew up with European politics that I define Kadima as right-wing. If Kadima was a political party in Europe, it would definitely be right-wing...

Fortunately, towards the end of his life Sharon was able to see the light with respect to removing settlements from Gaza even as his right-wing allies urged him not to.

Olmert was not a right-winger - he was a centrist. Certainly compared to Netanyahu.

The majority of Israelis are far more liberal than Americans. Jews have been overwhelmingly liberal/progressive & have voted that way for the past century. It's no secret America's Jews are more liberal than any other ethnic group. Israeli Jews aren't any different.

The haters on the Right believe the Jews are are Leftists & Socialists, while the haters on the Left believe Jews to be Rightwing Capitalists.

Hate blinds.

but even I have heard that American Jewry is more progressive than their Israeli counterpart.

Apart from that, while I do believe that both Livni and Olmert are pretty decent for being Israeli politicians, they are by no means more to the left than Sharon.

The only reason it appears American Jews are more progressive than their Israeli counterparts is because American Jews aren't constantly under attack like Jews are in Israel. Any people under constant terror attacks will appear more "hawkish" than those who who don't face that threat daily.

towards anti-Semitism.

It's almost impossible to discuss attitudes of groups of people without reverting to stereotypes, especially if those attitudes are seen as negative in some way. I don't do Jewish stereotypes, so I'd rather stick to discussing political parties and those who represent them, and not the groups of people who support them.

And you don't have a problem with that.

Perhaps if the Israeli government, and 500k plus illegal colonists with IDF help, weren't constantly [email protected] the Palestinian people the "Jews in Israel" wouldn't have to worry so much.

unless of course they were held in secret

I'll correct it.

http://beta.iol.co.za/news/politics/dont-go-to-israel---anc-1928619

Regarding how South African Jews should react to ANC-driven boycott measures, Bapela said that they needed to understand that this was not against them as individuals but against the policies of “their government”. It was a dead giveaway, of course, and Zev Krengel, president of the SA Jewish Board of Deputies, made no attempt to hide his anger.

“Don’t say ‘their’ government. I am a South African, I have one government and my leader is President Zuma. That is what you are trying to do — the whole dual loyalty thing. You say that you are not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic, but your remarks and your actions are,” Krengel told the minister.

Bapela will no doubt insist that his was just a slip of the tongue, but in light of what has gone before, it looks more likely to have been a Freudian slip.

In truth, there would appear to be a real problem regarding the attitude of certain ANC leaders towards the whole Middle East question. It is one that brooks no dissent against their hardline anti-Israel notions, and in which Jews who express dissent are seen not as fellow South Africans holding a different viewpoint but as an alien, problem element in the country that needs to be dealt with.

http://www.rdm.co.za/politics/2015/09/09/anc-factions-sacrificing-citizens-rights-for-anti-israel-agenda

Your act is getting old.

That right-wingers say right wing things?

The Jewish Home party in Israel is as far RW as you can get over there.

It is the face of Israeli government, ober, but you shabbily do everything to try and avoid that.

In the last Palestinian election, Hamas won 74 seats.

You do the math.

Israel’s >>>Deputy Defense Minister<<< Eli Ben-Dahan...


You do the math, if you can. He's in government.

When it comes to the Palestinians in Gaza, Haniyeh is the government.

Strange how you desperately need to deflect attention away from Israel.

The Palestinians elected them & arguably still prefer them over the PA.

But those who can't see things clearly when it comes to I/P couldn't care less about that. If Hamas, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah, and friends were on US borders and constantly on the attack, the US would be 10x more rightwing than Israel.

Now this is usually the part where you quietly concede the point by ignoring it & you start your daily ranting about BDS, apartheid, etc...

excuse raised its ugly head once more.

Thank you for the failed attempt to distract from right wing Israel.

The OP still stands while you straw man has fallen over and is face fiwn in a ditch.

It is quite depressing.

Israel is pretending to be one.

People call that democracy.

Are you actually arguing for Hamas now?

....can be compared to.

All.

There is no other nation on the planet that would be any more liberal or progressive than Israel given the same circumstances (hostility & terror attacks against it since its founding).

England has come to mind WRT the troubles in Northern Ireland. Things seem to be working out there, IMHO, since the Belfast Agreement.

Not to mention Europe as a whole has gotten over WWI, WWII and the Cold War, not incarcerating the German or Italian populations into penned cities but building them anew out of the rubble, so I guess your expert analysis has tripped on it's own historical ineptitude and fallen face first into a ditch...once again

But let's break down your short, yet uneducated, retort, and see what country Israel now realistically resembles from the past 20th century.


Right wing Israel uses the Palestinians, Arabs, Bedouin, Liberals as scapegoats.

Israel is responsible for the forced removal or fleeing of a wartime population and flat out refuses them the right of return saying, "How can we be Israel if we let them come back?" Israel depends on keeping the Palestinians from returning home.

Israel confiscates land outside of its borders, for greater empire, using the dubious term of state land and then in turn lets its illegal colonistas squat on that land: turning it into a settlement.

Israel harasses the local Palestinian population with petite pogroms: burning, slashing, bulldozing anything that stands in its way.

Israel forcibly moves populations within its own borders for their own good, and IMHO, because they don't belong to the right group.


So which despotic country of the 20th century an I referring to?

There's more than one, but one realized that it had to give it up.

....killing millions who have posed zero threat to European citizens. There's even the NATO bombing of Kosovo. One can only imagine Iraq, Afghanistan, or even Yugoslavia behing behind attacks on Europeans (the softest targets like elderly, women, children) in their capital cities and what the response would be. The carnage would be at least 100x worse than anything Israel has ever been associated with

All clear-minded people know very well what the UK did in Germany at the end of the war (Dresden as one example, but also the ethnic cleansing of 10's of millions of Germans from the Sudetenland, which killed millions of them in the process). Israel doesn't come close to that in a millenium.

That you can even compare Irish terror attacks to those suffered by Jews the past 100 years even before 1948 is not just ridiculous but shows gross ignorance. The Irish never called for the genocide of the British people, nor did they deliberately target kindergartens as a matter of policy. The Brits would have gone full-on postal and ape shit had that happened.

stumbling off the road and falling into a ditch.



And none of those have either massive occupation forces or illegal colonistas from their home countries squatting in these foreign lands.

You should really check the pulse on your argument since it appears to have ODed on crazy pills.



And yet England did not colonize Germany. They are allies now. All forgiven. Nazis dead.



But the British in ye olden ays practiced genocide on Ireland WRT the potato famine: which killed many and drove many to America. But there is good will now.

Your argument will never be Mensa worthy so just give it up.

And once again - the occupation and "colonistas" had nothing to do with Palestinians attacking and killing Jews decades before 1948 under Hitler's Mufti friend and ally.

Same motivation for killing Jews now as then.

If that's not it - then tell us all when that motivation changed. From hating Jews and wanting them all dead to only fighting for their freedom in their own state alongside Israel.....

When did that happen? It never did. Not even the BDS'ers want Palestinians living in their own country alongside the Jewish state, but rather ON TOP and in place of the Jewish state - same as 100 years ago.

Your attempts here are pathetic as you don’t have a rational, legal, historical or frankly moral leg to stand on.

George Bush and PNAC are responsible for that.



You seem obsessed with this Hitler Guy and the evil Arabs. It's pretty bigoted on your part...almost as those who hate Jews for all their imagined conspiracies.



Your phantoms and bigotry have gotten the better of you. All you see are Jew-hating Arabs (your words frankly) while you continuously make excuses for keeping the Palestinian people down.



Again, your fevered delusions have made you appear foolish to the adults in the room. And at this point in time it is Israel that is engineering a one state solution or a ghetto system for the Palestinians.

Does that make you feel warm all over?



On your word? You're simply priceless, my dear.

They complete each other.

Others doomed to watch that dance.

אלי בן דאהן סגן שר הביטחון אומר שהפיתרון הוא שהפלסטינים יבינו שלא תהיה להם מדינה וישראל תשלוט בהם

Eli Ben- Dahan deputy defense minister says that the solution is that the Palestinians understand that there will be a state and Israel would control them.

Seems strange that Google translate would translate "won't" as "will".

is a right wing human bigot I would expect him to make the mistakes of arrogance and prejudice.

But those that attempt to explain away the arrogance and prejudice of the present Israeli apartheid machine, I would suggest heir actions are deliberate and malicious.

Weird mistake, though, but I do agree that it probably is an error. I wish Google translate was more reliable so that we wouldn't have to rely on other folks doing the translating (possibly with agendas).

In any case, that he would say something like that is not exactly news as it is in fact the policy of the Jewish Home party that no Palestinian state be established so I would expect this person to say this sort of thing.

Depressing that people like this are in the government.

Not quite comparable to the Hamas legislators who run Gaza, but still pretty bad.

It's far worse since this is the face of a supposed Democracy.

You do understand that everybody can read how you are comparing Israeli government to that of Hamas: a terrorist organization?

Some people think they are the legitimately elected Palestinian leadership who were driven out of the West Bank by a US-sponsored coup.

One can find such sentiments on websites like Mondoweiss.

Since we agree that Hamas is a terrorist organization maybe you can address the fact that Palestinians voted overwhelming in favor of said terrorist organization in their legislative elections.

and sanctioning state-sponsored terrorism on a daily basis.

Hence the OP.

It doesn't bode well for any kind of peace between Israelis and Palestinians though.

But I don't see the negation.

I see a word that could possibly be taken as having negation, but it means "to them." Not "won't be."

Meh.

Thanks for sharing that.

אלי בן דאהן סגן שר הביטחון אומר שהפיתרון הוא שהפלסטינים יבינו שלא תהיה להם מדינה וישראל תשלוט בהם

Aren't the meanings of those statements the opposite of one other?

As Netanyahu said about a decade ago:

I just thought it was odd that Google translated it as "will" instead of "won't" - which are generally considered to mean the opposite of one another.

First, Israel will rule over them clearly means that there will be no independent State of Palestine. The only way to take this statement.

Second, "to me, they are like animals, they aren't human" tells me all I need to know about the mindset of this government minister.

Refusal to allow a state and considering people as less than human is the sign of a state that will never allow peace, or a settlement based on law.