Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe burning of a Palestinian child: not an exception, but a result of Zionism
The world should not look at today’s appalling incident as a singular event. It is another link in the Zionist settler-colonial mentality which always sees Palestinians as an existential threat, dehumanises us and constantly views us as inferior and marginal. Israel cannot absolve its responsible for these settlers’ acts, nor pretend they don’t represent its own warped morality.
Israel is the one to blame, not only because it encourages illegal settlements to expand, arms settlers with advanced weapons and further protects them with its “defence” forces, but also because these actions are an extension of the longstanding Zionist enterprise that, as much as it sought to dehumanise Palestinians, in return dehumanised Israeli society. This is evident in the Israeli cultural discourse, which celebrates Israel and portrays it as a “heroic,” while ignoring the political and humanitarian costs “others” endure due to its “successes”. The persistent portrayal of Jews as “victims,” facing “hostile” and “terrorist” Palestinians, also feeds this mentality. Even Israeli children’s books are exploited to demonise Palestinians and portray Jews as victims against terrorist “Arabs”.
Today’s attack cannot be decontextualized. It is deeply connected to Israel’s celebrated “War of Independence,” which declared Israel as a Jewish state after a systematic process of ethnic cleansing that ranged between massacres, like that of Deir Yassin, to psychological violence, and made almost a million Palestinians refugees. These acts of terror reproduce the same mentality that led to the Kafr Kassim massacre of 1956, whose perpetrators were pardoned and freed after a year. An Israeli border police unit, for no reason whatsoever, opened fire at Palestinians returning from their farms, unaware of the new military curfew imposed on their village. The gunfire killed 49, almost half of them children. It is also the same mentality that led to the second mass expulsion of Palestinians in 1967.
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no_hypocrisy
(46,067 posts)the land of Native Americans.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Exactly the kind of disgusting exploitation of this horrific terrorist attack that Mondoweiss is famous for.
This was a terrorist attack committed by a depraved individual whom the whole of Israel condemns.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)to braodcast fake outrage at the truth.
shira
(30,109 posts)Just another hate piece from a hate site, no different than any other neo-nazi site on the web.
Mondoweiss in a nutshell 24/7/365:
"Zionism = bad. Zionists = racists. Hamas = Freedom Fighters. The Nazi state Israel must be destroyed. Since nearly all Jews fail at being sufficiently anti-Zionist, it's open season on the Jews too."
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[font color = "red"]Mondoweiss defending Hamas' genocidal Jew-hating charter:[/font]
Most often discussions regarding Hamas in the Western media begin with its notorious 1988 Charter. But have media outlets who spew obsessively narrow readings of Hamas’s military position even bothered to do any research into its political work?
....Klein explains that
Hamas is a pragmatic and flexible political actor and focusing on its 1988 Charter completely misses Hamas’s contemporary identity. However, disgracefully the US and European states maintain their uneducated or purposefully misleading understanding of Hamas.
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/understanding-hamas#sthash.wTK5PFeE.dpuf
[font color = "red"]Mondoweiss promoting David Duke...[/font]
As part of the research for this article, I contacted David Duke by phone. Duke, it should be noted, rejects the notion that he is an anti-Semite, racist, or White supremacist. He also rejects the label of “ex-Klansman,” as it defines him by a membership that he had ended forty years ago. I asked whether he considered himself a “White nationalist”—particularly since he is a frequent contributor to the self-proclaimed “White nationalist” forum Stormfront.
No, I consider myself a human rights activist. And when I do go on Stormfront posts, that’s what I preach, and that’s what I teach.
One wonders then, if other human rights activists should renounce human rights—as the term has now been claimed by Duke—or if Amnesty International “should reflect on why” they promote a concept shared by Duke. And despite endorsing the Presbyterian Church USA divestment move, Duke qualified his endorsement by dismissing the undue weight with which critics have attempted to give it.
I think it just shows the bankruptcy of their argument. You don’t criticize any principle because someone else endorses it.
“I certainly agree with disinvestment—I have a right to speak like everyone else does,” Duke told me. But he found it ridiculous to reject PCUSA’s divestment “because of some guilt by association, which is not even an association.”
In fact, in my conversation with Duke, it was clear that he would endorse almost any action that was critical of Israel. Duke disagreed with but didn’t have any serious objection to the clauses in PCUSA’s divestment measure that asserted Israel’s “right to exist” and support for the two-state solution.
Thus if one sought to engage in ways to hold Israel accountable for its actions without gaining approval from Duke, one would be immobilized. In the end, freedom for Palestinians—or for that matter any other oppressed peoples—should not be dependent on whether the US “Jewish community” approves or whether David Duke disapproves.
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/goldberg-presbyterian-divestment#sthash.TXPttwmE.dpuf
[font color = "red"]Mondoweiss promoting David Duke fan, Gilad Atzmon....[/font]
Israel/Palestine Philip Weiss on June 23, 2011 595 Comments
Gilad Atzmon did an interview with me on Jewish identity. It’s pretty good, and it’s here. Though I regret my flip comment calling the Catholic church the church of pedophilia, apologies. Here’s a bit from it:
- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2011/06/i-found-my-identity-down-on-highway-61#sthash.IgPXAjCU.dpuf
[font color = "red"]If that's not enough to prove Mondoweiss is a hate site, there's this...[/font]
Weiss suggested (a) that Jews are more inclined to cheat than are non-Jews, and indeed Jews don’t even recognize it as cheating;
(b) that the American non-Jewish establishment made some sort of deal with the Jews back in the 70s, in which Jews provided their economic prowess to the U.S. in exchange for support for the Israel lobby (indeed, that one is so ridiculous that my fingers rebelled at typing it);
(c) Jewish media company CEOs force their Gentile employees to express support for Israel and
(d) that Jews need to “understand our role” in causing the Holocaust because of the “power” we had. Weiss now elaborates that he’s talking about Jewish economic power, as if the German Jew who started as a peddler and built his business into a chain of department stores wasn’t simply an individual Jewish businessman who found success, but instead part of a cabal of Jews using their “power” to undermine the Gentiles, who retaliated via the Holocaust.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/04/mondoweiss-is-a-hate-site/
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's why.
6chars
(3,967 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Know any?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Anyway, could you please stop getting your post hidden all the time? It's annoying me...
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Just like the republican party condemns the killing of abortion providers.
shira
(30,109 posts)Better to condemn & hunt down the murderers rather than pass out sweets & name streets after them, right?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)
Dick Dastardly
(937 posts)Please explain what you are trying to say.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)"This was a terrorist attack committed by a depraved individual whom the whole of Israel condemns."
I believe that you are sincere. But, as the article explains, when a nation demonizes and exploits and marginalizes people, in this case the Palestinians, it should come as no surprise that some people will internalize these feelings and respond with terrible violence. In this case, a baby died.
And this type of thing has happened many times in recorded history. Witness the many times that Jews have been demonized in European history, from the Inquisition in Spain to the numerous pogroms in Eastern Europe to the largest such horror under the Nazi regime.
This type of demonization has been used by the US to justify the genocide of the First Peoples and to justify black slavery. It certainly is not unique to Israel.
That said, how can Israel eliminate this demonization of the Palestinian people and accept that true peace for both peoples can only come with the existence of a Palestinian State in the pre-1967 boundaries?
shira
(30,109 posts)...multiple times since 1937. It's the Palestinian leadership that demonizes Jews & does not recognize their right to even 1 square inch of Israel, vowing to murder all of them.
Imagine the tables were turned with Hamas and the PA having IDF capabilities, with Israelis being helpless.
What would happen?
I'd like an answer to that one.
There was no Israel in 1937. What date did you mean ?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)theird heads.
1937 ??
hack89
(39,171 posts)Peel Commission
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)...multiple times since 1937.
There was no Israel in 1937.
hack89
(39,171 posts)so if you want to split hairs, feel free. It is simply another example of the Palestinians making the wrong decision.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's just a statement of fact, and not splitting hairs.
hack89
(39,171 posts)the first of many - they can be counted on to always make the wrong choice.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)negotiate wirh theives.
hack89
(39,171 posts)and we see how dismal their future will be. At some point they will have to accept that Israel will not go away. Or that there will be full RoR.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)has grown tired of Israeli aggresion.
BDS.
hack89
(39,171 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
hack89
(39,171 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)That offer and everything since then has been rejected by Palestinian leadership due to wanting no Jewish state whatsoever. It's not about Palestinian independence, and still isn't about that.
What's difficult about this?
============
I notice you didn't answer my question. Seems you know very well which side does the demonizing and what this conflict is and has been all about, all along.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Perhaps the descendants of the Arabs who were thrown out by Israel should be allowed back?
shira
(30,109 posts)Millions, into Israel?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)According to all these partition plans, the Palestinian refugees should have been Israelis today. It's their birthright, so to speak.
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Wouldn't that be the morally right thing to do?
shira
(30,109 posts)Even then, the (non-binding) UN resolution states clearly the Jewish state "should" take in only those 1948 refugees willing to live in peace within Israel.
There is no such thing as a RoR for descendants of refugees anywhere in the world.
================
Many anti-Zionists who claim to be against "apartheid" would not give refugees in camps the choice to become citizens in their host countries.
How about you? Should they be given the right to choose to become citizens in the lands they were born in (Lebanon, Jordan, etc..)? This is a right everyone else has in the world, but not Palestinians.
So, yes or no?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)It has nothing to do with anyone being a refugee or any other status. This right should remain even when a person receives another citizenship. I can't really imagine a scenario when this right should be denied to anyone.
shira
(30,109 posts)They could still apply for citizenship in Israel.
So what's the problem?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's your homeland, but if you decide to the Israel will give you a holden ticket to hasbaraville; where you can live in an illegal colony of your choice.
Not so much so for the Palestinians who wete ethnically cleansed from the area in 1948.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)their indigenous homeland.
Maybe I remember it wrong, but I got the impression that you think Jews should be able to live everywhere in their indigenous homeland, while at the same time you don't think Palestinians should have that right.
Am I interpreting you correctly, or do you believe something else?
BTW, how can Palestinians from Gaza or the WB become Israelis? It's impossible for them to become Israelis even if they marry one and live out the rest of their days in Israel.
shira
(30,109 posts)As to citizenship, you just posted an article on how more Palestinians of E.Jerusalem are applying and becoming Israeli citizens. With a peace deal, Palestinians throughout the rest of the W.Bank could more easily apply to become citizens too.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)a lengthy process.
I can't imagine that Jewish applicants who don't even live in Israel would ever get their applications rejected.
shira
(30,109 posts)It's illegal for Jews to buy land there.
That doesn't stop the BDS crowd from supporting this racism & pretending Israel is 100x worse.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has previously stated that no settlers would be allowed to remain in the Palestinian state, and his chief negotiator Saeb Erekat on Sunday repeated that not a single settler would be allowed to stay because, he said, Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law. That response was lambasted by sources in the PMO late Sunday as a “radical and reckless reaction.”
You just keep on drinking from the river of 'fail.'
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 7, 2015, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)
In 2011, the PA Ambassador to the US (Maen Areikat) admitted it, straight out.
Guess he didn't get the memo.
Oops...
I remember in the mid-’90s, the late [PLO official] Faisal Husseini said repeatedly “OK, if Israelis choose to stay in a future Palestinian state, they are more than welcome to do that. But under one condition: They have to respect and obey Palestinian laws, they cannot be living as Israelis. They have to respect Palestinian laws and abide by them.” [font color = "red"]When Faisal Husseini died, basically no Palestinian leader has publicly supported the notion that they can stay.[/font]
What we are saying is the following: We need to separate. We have to separate. We are in a forced marriage. We need to divorce. After we divorce, and everybody takes a period of time to recoup, rebound, whatever you want to call it, we may consider dating again.
So, you think it would be necessary to first transfer and remove every Jew—
Absolutely. No, I’m not saying to transfer every Jew, I’m saying transfer Jews who, after an agreement with Israel, fall under the jurisdiction of a Palestinian state.
Any Jew who is inside the borders of Palestine will have to leave?
Absolutely. I think this is a very necessary step, before we can allow the two states to somehow develop their separate national identities, and then maybe open up the doors for all kinds of cultural, social, political, economic exchanges, that freedom of movement of both citizens of Israelis and Palestinians from one area to another. You know you have to think of the day after.
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/48834/qa-maen-areikat
Not surprisingly, Areikat tried walking it back.
Abbas did the same thing in 2010. When caught like his Ambassador to the US, deny the ugly...
http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/columnists/37008/no-outcry-abbass-racism
A week or so later, Abbas's political adviser, Nimar Hamad, no doubt realising the embarrassing insensitivity of these remarks, effected to issue a retraction, blaming unnamed American media for spreading the falsehood that the word "Jews" had ever been used.
But when I looked last Friday, the statement, including that word, was still on the Wafa website, and I understand that, in any case, some Arabic newspapers, such as Al-Quds (on July 30), had had no hesitation in reporting that it was "Jews" to whom Abbas had referred.
Apologists for the Palestinian position frequently assure me that when Arabs talk about Jews, and especially when they talk about Jews in negative terms, they usually mean Israelis.
Yet here we have the Palestinian President talking quite clearly about Jews - not Israelis - and declaring that he for his part will not tolerate a single Jew in any Nato force that might police the borders of an emergent Palestinian state.
***This version was reprinted by Palestinian newspapers al-Quds and al-Hayat al-Jadida on July 30 and by other Arab newspapers.
Uhhh....this is where you get to really flash your anti-Apartheid credentials. Show us all how disgusted you are with this blatant, obvious display of racist Apartheid. We all know how you'd trash any Zionist declaring no Palestinians allowed in Israel, so this is clearly just as bad.
I think you've included the word "Apartheid" in just about every post of yours regarding Israel. Probably more than 1000 times. So this is where you display your outrage at real, genuine Apartheid. The real thing. Like right now. You can do it. Go!
I won't hold my breath waiting...
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)since the Palestinians, not wanting to share what was already theirs with somebody else, that they must continue to forfeit more land, with each Israeli land grab, and also not be allowed ROR since the original theft requires their continued displacement.
shira
(30,109 posts)The Jews have a right to their own nation there, in what has been their historic and cultural homeland for the last 3000 years.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)now do they?
shira
(30,109 posts)We're called Jews today because of Judea.
It's ridiculous to argue Jews are foreigners to their own indigenous homeland, or worse, colonizers.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Like I wrote earlier, enjoy your stay.
shira
(30,109 posts)...in peace alongside Israel. If the Palestinians had accepted their own state at any time since 1937 in peace alongside Israel, I'd have no problem with that....even if it were in Judea, half of Jerusalem, etc.
You've also been corrected numerous times on "illegal" settlements (colonization). They're nothing of the sort when the UN Security Council cannot even pass a resolution (in 2011) that would declare them illegal.
People aren't illegal (settlers). People are human beings, not illegal.
And Jews have a right to live anywhere in the world they want, especially within their indigenous homeland. This shouldn't have to be spelled out on a liberal board.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)truth to your statements, shira.
Either Israel accepts, as you should, that it has borders which its citizens respect by not illegally colonizing Palestinian territory, or you are for illegal colonization and apartheid.
shira
(30,109 posts)...that have already been refuted.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Either Israel accepts, as you should, that it has borders which its citizens respect by not illegally colonizing Palestinian territory, or you are for illegal colonization and apartheid.
If you can't accept that truth then you really DO support the illegal Israeli colonies.
shira
(30,109 posts)Your only response is a clumsy repeat of your same tired, refuted talking points.
=========
Furthermore, I don't support colonial apartheid, etc. nonsense.
I recommend a dictionary for you. Look up the definitions of colonialism & apartheid. Then compare to Israel. It will be an enlightening experience, I promise.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)its crap-assed, whiny hasbarists.
BDS.
broiles
(1,367 posts)
aranthus
(3,385 posts)The original poster and those who "like" Mondoweiss? There's plenty of them on DU. Plenty of them who have never responded substantively to the evidence that it's a hate site. If they had a real response, you know they'd make it. So they know what Mondoweiss is, and they post from it anyway. Why do you think that is?
shira
(30,109 posts)
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I don't agree with the OP, the link between Zionism and burning babies alive is nonexistent.
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)TeddyR
(2,493 posts)That this anti-Israeli, pro-terrorist drivel is permitted on DU. Thought we'd moved on from referring to Israeli's as "Zionists."
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)See post #6 above.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=109908
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)BDS.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)How many of your posts been hidden because if that?
shira
(30,109 posts)....post of mine that does that against Palestinians.
I'll wait.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)You should be ashamed of yourself.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)6chars
(3,967 posts)be ready for traffic in Tel Aviv.
