Gay Palestinian seeking asylum in Canada set to be deported despite death threats

[King_David]

TORONTO — If the Canadian government decides to deport John Calvin back to Palestine on Nov. 4, he believes he will be killed.

“It’s a known thing that it will be a death sentence, so there would be no way around it,” he said from his home in Edmonton.

“Scared, terrified, disappointed, there’s a bunch of different things that one in my situation would feel.”


http://globalnews.ca/news/2032218/gay-palestinian-seeking-asylum-in-canada-set-to-be-deported-despite-death-threats/

[King_David]

1. Shame on Canada for sending him back to such a hateful backwards place

That his life is at stake because he's Gay.

Stephen Harpers right wing government may be pro Israel but is still a disgusting right wing ideological and morally bankrupt group.

[Jefferson23]

4. May be pro-Israel? The reasons given for the refusal equate with much that is posted

here by proxy...any Palestinian can't be trusted. Who do you think feeds that stereotype?

Your OP: Initially, his case looked favourable after his lawyer says an immigration hearing determined his young age and minimal interactions with Hamas proved he was not a member of the group that the Canadian government designates as a radical Islamist-nationalist terrorist organization.

But a second hearing with the Immigration Appeal Division reached the opposite conclusion and Calvin is set to be deported on Nov. 4.

“So you have these two completely contradictory and inconsistent decisions and unfortunately John doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt, he gets the worse decision imposed against him,” said Calvin’s lawyer Nate Whitling, who is also one of Omar Khadr’s lawyers, adding that an appeal to that decision was flatly denied without explanation.

“That’s the end, we can’t appeal that any further so we’re sort of out of options in the courts and John is stuck with this decision.”***

Of course he should be given asylum, but that would mean hateful people who perpetuate the
belief that Palestinians are a menace, will have to change.

Also, you posted a link to The Blaze, in post#3, Glenn Becks website. Interesting source you trust:


Putting Glenn Beck's Stance Against Anti-Gay Bigotry To The Test
See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/putting-glenn-becks-stance-against-anti-gay-bigotry-test#sthash.eVqd1aFd.dpuf


Why use that vile man's website when you can use a useful petition by change.org?

Allow John Calvin to stay.
https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[King_David]

7. Thank you

Changed to change.org on your advice

Hopefully they don't send this poor Gay guy to a gay-barbaric place where he surely will die for being Gay.

[Jefferson23]

9. You're welcome. If possible he should seek asylum else where..doesn't look like Canada will change

their mind.

[King_David]

8. He shouldn't be sent back to Palestine

Not until they come out of the Middle Ages as far as LGBT are concerned.

He faces a certain death as a Gay man and that's Unbelievable that "progressives" turn a blind eye to these barbaric beliefs inside Palestine.

[Jefferson23]

10. Dial back your outrage meter, progressive do not turn a blind eye to oppression. Progressives

can figure out agendas from the likes of Glenn Beck too.

[King_David]

11. It's called PEP , progressive except for Palestine

Turning a blind eye to extreme Homophobia equally as bad as IS, Uganda, Iran and far worse than Russia.

[Jefferson23]

12. Where did you read that, at the Glenn Beck website? n/t

[King_David]

13. You're telling me you're unaware how homophobic and bigoted against Gays they are in Palestine?

Especially Gaza and everywhere in Palestine and Uganda and Iran and Russia.

You honestly never knew this?

This guy in the OP is fearing for his life.

[Jefferson23]

15. You made a claim that progressives ignore gays that are

targeted by their host countries..that is unsupported. I asked you where you get these
ideas from..Glenn Becks website?

I already know what the young man is up against and posted to change.org, for you.

[King_David]

16. Not their host countries

This OP is about Palestine .

One of the worst culprits.

This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.

[Jefferson23]

17. He does not want to go back to Gaza, Canada as per their decision do not trust him b/c

he is Palestinian. The host country here is just as guilty.

I wonder who perpetuates that hatred and fear..it is not progressives.

[King_David]

18. Gaza is Palestine

One of the handful of places of 5-6 of the very worst offenders / Himophobic places in the world.

[Jefferson23]

19. And? That does not address what Canada is doing which is not trusting him because he is a

Palestinian. Progressives are not the problem as you stated.

If he is lucky, he can apply elsewhere, perhaps a country who does not believe
he can't be trusted.


Those who perpetuate the bigotry that has culminated in Canada's decision are guilty too.

[King_David]

20. I'm saying that Palestine is the major problem here

Canada should not be sending this guy to a certain death to Palestine and Canadians must stop their Government, it's a blight on a very near perfect score on the LGBT front.

Palestine must be shunned and not allowed into the community of civilized nations for what they will do to this guy just because he is gay.

[Jefferson23]

22. Do you ever think about what you say while you claim to be advocating for this young man?

You: Palestine must be shunned and not allowed into the community of civilized nations for what they will do to this guy just because he is gay.


Where do you get these ideas from? I have never heard of such an approach in my life. If you believe
that any human rights group who has more than a little credibility on this subject, would support such
an inhumane thing, you're off the rails...totally.

What you're saying is, they don't get a viable state, nothing. Outrageous to think that would even work,
quite disingenuous of you.

[King_David]

25. Extreme Homophobia must be fought in Russia, IS, Iran

And definitely in Palestine too , by every means possible.

It is absolutely never acceptable.

[Jefferson23]

27. By every means possible?

How to assist people who are fighting for their rights takes more nuance than that.
You don't want to make matters worse.

[King_David]

30. Extreme Homophobia never ever gets a pass

No matter the circumstances.

[Jefferson23]

33. That does not answer my question. n/t

[grossproffit]

24. His families Hamas ties are the problem.

"Raised by a Hamas-supporting family in the West Bank – his grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the group - this young Palestinian man was indoctrinated to believe in violence, anti-Semitism, and an extreme interpretation of Islam. However, by the age of 15 he began to question these beliefs, beginning a journey that culminated in him converting to Christianity. For his parents, this was unacceptable. His life in grave danger, John had no choice but to escape."

[Jefferson23]

31. So you support their decision..how nice. n/t

[grossproffit]

35. No, I was correcting your misinformation in saying it's because he's Palestinian. Which if false.

I've already made phone calls, fired off emails and signed petitions. What have you done to help this young man?

[Jefferson23]

37. Don't tell me it is not because he is Palestinian. Their reasons are clear, despite the fact they

were presented with more than enough information. They do not trust him, he is a Palestinian, they
have no other reason to not believe him. Who perpetuates that hatred of Palestinians, not progressives.

What have I done? What is this a contest for you?

Pathetic.

Read the thread is one suggestion I have for you, and my last one.

[shira]

49. Have you signed the petition yet? Done anything? n/t

[Jefferson23]

50. I strongly suggest you read the thread. I am the one who posted to the petition from

change.org..not you, nor the one who posted the OP.

[King_David]

51. Yes , that is true

[King_David]

34. And should not be sent back to such a place

[grossproffit]

36. No he should NOT be sent back. He will most certainly be killed.

[6chars]

80. Prayers for this young man

regardless of all the back and forth on this thread

[leftynyc]

54. Are you seriously denying

that the fact gays are disgustingly targeted by hamas is just about completely ignored by many progressives? That you accuse a gay person of getting that information on a right wing website is a pretty outrageous charge and merely made to shut down the discussion. That's not going to work. It's VERY well known that gays are targets in many Muslim countries, including the Gaza strip and yet I see nothing but deflection of that fact here on DU by people who insist Israel is the boogieman and 100% wrong in all aspects of the I/P issue. If you aren't aware of it, you aren't paying attention.

[tanbrown]

109. It's not just gays

Wife-beating and woman-killing are reported to be at epic levels in the Palestinian territories. Honor killings - in which men kill their daughters or sisters so other men will RESPECT them for murdering the "disobedient whore" - are becoming ever more common.

Meanwhile Hamas is pushing the usual Islamist restrictions on women. (For example, the UN-sponsored Gaza marathon for charity was obstructed last year by the Palestinians, who said women would not be allowed to commit the sin of public running.)

Don't take my word for it. Please search the topic of domestic violence in Palestinian lands, and see for yourselves.

I am constantly amazed that, despite so much concern for Palestinians, no one cares to advocate for the problems of the half who are female.

(Ah well - they're only women! And caring about them would mean - gasp - criticizing Palestinian culture and religion. Better to say nothing and keep cheering on the patriarchy.)

[leftynyc]

110. When Bill Maher

made his comment - essentially that many on the left are apologists for Islam when it comes to treatment of women and gays - many posters here went ballistic. I was in complete agreement with him - as were others who were accused of Islamophobia and other nonsense. It was then that I realized some people just can't handle the truth, that they're so invested in the I/P wars and so invested in "rooting for the underdog" they quite simply turned their heads away from reality. I will never do that.

[tanbrown]

111. Yes

Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2015, 07:18 AM - Edit history (2)

Actually I don't think the liberal Islam-lovers are just motivated by I/P.

Their thinking goes like this:

Some right wingers are bigoted against Muslims. Some right wingers say nutty stuff like "All Muslims are terrorists.". Therefore, Muslims are an oppressed group. Therefore we "liberals" get moral-superiority points for opposing RW bigotry by adoring and promoting Islam and bragging about our "tolerance" for the poor little religion.

It's a combination of group-think and patting oneself on the back - "look what a good person I am; I admire Islam!"

The problem is: mainstream Islam is every bit as coercive and patriarchal as the extremist fringe of Chriatianity and the Haredi Jews of Israel. If you hate the Duggars for what they teach about women's place; if you hate the LDS polygamy sects for controlling their youth and females; if you believe individuals should have the freedom to leave the faith they were born into; if you believe women and men and people of all religions should live under the same laws - then for fuck's sake, recognize that Islam 2015 opposes every liberal belief we hold dear.

Hell, I have no problem with a free, uncoerced woman putting a collar and chain around her own neck and handing the other end to her husband. I have no problem with a grown woman deciding of her own free will to wear hijab, or cutting off her own clitoris because "Allah wants me to.". But Muslim women wear a (figurative) collar and chain not because they exactly choose it, but because they are trained to submit and their husbands are trained to expect submission - and everything is stacked to keep women in their place. As for hijab, many (I don't claim all) wear hijab not exactly freely but because of social expectations, coercion, the threat of ostracism or violence, and the penalties and judgment they would receive for not doing so. And although millions of women have had their clitoris hacked off to please Allah, I don't know of a single one who chose that butchery for her own self. (Though a great many force it on their little daughters. Guess why.)

Please my friends:

It is possible to stand against bigotry and ALSO despise Islam.

We can agree that individuals (Muslim or not) deserve respect and equal opportunities in our society... while hating the institution of Islam for drumming gender inequality, religious supremacy, colonialism, homophobia, violent penal law, hypocrisy, and adoration of theocracy into the minds of 1.6 billion people (most of whom have no freedom to reject what they are taught).

I lived in the middle of Islam for years - had a Muslim family, sent my kids to a Muslim school. Unlike many armchair apologists I actually know what I'm talking about. Islam has the same virtues as Christian fundamentalism (defined roles, strong family ties, tradition, security-in-conformity) but it has all the same evils too - except jacked up about 2000 percent, with way more militancy and a far greater devotion to mixing mosque and state into a totalitarian nightmare.

Please let's start judging it by the same standards we judge our homegrown Christian fringe groups. Please let's stop being insanely uncritical about a movement that opposes individuality and equality and the freedom to leave it.

Please.

[shira]

21. PEPs are equal opportunity against gays, women, & religious minorities

Wouldn't want to upset the progressive Palestinian leadership by saying anything about that.

It's too Zionist to stand up for liberal values.

[grossproffit]

28. Which is why it's so mind boggling that they have any support but I know why.

Of course, they're not anti Semitic, only anti Zionist. *wink* *wink*

[iandhr]

40. Hit the nail on the head.

[leftynyc]

53. The whole thing makes my brain hurt

Everyone stands up for the Palestinians - right up to a case like this where true colors shine. Then they turn themselves into pretzels trying to blame the west (today's culprit - Canada).

[King_David]

23. I'm not talking about progressive people.

I'm talking about some people who consider themselves as progressive but yet support a regime that would kill this guy because he is Gay. These are not progressives.

[Jefferson23]

26. Progressives don't support Hamas. They do support a two state solution based on international

law...no bantustan. They get an airport, army and seaport too...just like Israel.

[King_David]

29. Progressives do not support Hamas at all

I'm talking about people who call themselves progressive ( not real progressives ) who turn a blind eye to the worst kind of Homophobia in Palestine ( Gaza and West Bank) as well as anywhere else surrounding Israel ( these are not progressives)

[Jefferson23]

32. I don't think that is how you're trying to define it..not when I see how you do not want Palestinian

to have a state until they deal with gay rights. You are suggesting that anyone who advocates for
them to have a viable state presently is not progressive.

[shira]

38. What are your fellow advocates doing to ensure a future Palestine...

....is progressive on gay rights, women's rights, etc.?

Anything at all?

[Jefferson23]

39. Progressives are not the ones preventing them from having a viable state. That is where it needs

to begin. Why do you think major human rights groups have told Abbas, go to the international courts?
Because they believe gay rights, women's rights can only/should only come before a state is realized?

Your positions are offensive, deeply so.

[shira]

41. You're against the Saudi Plan & u point to others preventing 2 states?

Laughable.

So your fellow advocates are doing nothing for gay rights & women's rights in a future Palestine.

Why do you think waiting for their state to materialize is preferable to doing anything now?

And yeah, gay and women's rights come first before anything.

You have to be told this?

[Jefferson23]

42. Bantustans are not viable states...damn right I am against that.

My fellow PEP's? You are way out of line and your posts demonstrative
what you're about.

I will leave anyone who cares to read your post history and they can determine your
sincerity for the human rights of Palestinians...if they're interested.

Have a nice day, shira.

[shira]

43. The Clinton Plan is not Bantustans & you know that...

We should do a poll here and see how many support fighting for women's and gay rights NOW within the Palestinian territories, as opposed to waiting for a Palestinian state to first materialize.

Do you think advocating for their rights NOW would be too Zionist?

[Jefferson23]

44. The Arab Initiative has changed, it is not anything like the Clinton Plan.

That is a fact but you'll keep labeling it something it no longer is, for a reason that has
nothing to do with accuracy.

Go ahead, shira, fight for their human rights, call HRW, see how they like your plan, and
please, donate heavily.

[shira]

45. You're against a peace plan between the Arab world & Israel....

...that would grant the Palestinians their own viable state (on or near 100% of '67 W.Bank territory) with no occupation and settlements.

You also prefer that no one lifts a finger to advocate for women and gays now under Palestinian authority. That should wait as long as it takes for Palestinian statehood to materialize. Maybe decades.

Is that accurate?

[Jefferson23]

46. To answer your blatantly false narrartive: No. you're not accurate .

Anyone interested to know what I said can read the thread..most can figure it out.

Good luck.

[shira]

47. I think you've made yourself clear. n/t

[oberliner]

52. Do you support the Geneva Initiative?

Do you think this presents a good framework:

http://www.geneva-accord.org

[iandhr]

2. Where's the Hamas fan club here?

[King_David]

3. Petitioning Canadian Government Allow John Calvin to stay.

Last edited Fri Jun 5, 2015, 07:15 PM - Edit history (1)

"Imagine if, because of your religion, political beliefs and sexuality, your own family would have you killed. Imagine if the only way you could survive was to escape the society you were raised in. And now imagine you’d made a new life for yourself in a different country – only to be told you were about to be deported back to those who want you dead.

John Calvin doesn’t have to imagine any of this. Raised by a Hamas-supporting family in the West Bank – his grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the group - this young Palestinian man was indoctrinated to believe in violence, anti-Semitism, and an extreme interpretation of Islam. However, by the age of 15 he began to question these beliefs, beginning a journey that culminated in him converting to Christianity. For his parents, this was unacceptable. His life in grave danger, John had no choice but to escape.


https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[grossproffit]

14. +1 This is what they support.

[leftynyc]

55. You'll notice only one of them

has even bothered to show up on this thread. While the one that did show up (and kudos to him for that at least) tries to pretend progressives don't have a problem with turning away from the gay issue so they can continue to blame Israel for the entire I/P mess. It's the same thing with the treatment of women. PEP is VERY real.

[azurnoir]

60. oh yes PEP is very real indeed and I see a nice attempt at taking it back here or reversing it

sterday, I wrote about the phenomenon of PEP (Progressive Except on Palestine) a condition, in which victims are liberal on every issue except the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Some PEPs diagnose themselves with the syndrome, openly embrace it and identify as PEP-Positive. These PEPs will declare with pride that they line up ideologically with liberals except for when it comes to supporting the government of Israel. Some of them will claim that supporting Israeli policy is a liberal position and that their stance is consistent with liberal values. So, they are aware that they disagree with liberals but see their fellow liberals as not understanding that unquestioning support for Israeli policy is a liberal value. They would accuse others of being PEI, Progressive Except on Israel. The other population of self-diagnosing PEPs are those who say they are liberal almost always but that their Zionism is the one thing that trumps their liberalism.

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/07/get-tested-are-you-a-pep-progressive-except-on-palestine/

[iandhr]

68. Indeed

It's amazing how people can think supporting Hamas is a "progressive" position.

[azurnoir]

69. exactly who are you speaking of? seems by following the comments you're targeting other DUers

as being terror supporters is that true?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105333

[leftynyc]

74. You need to get with the program

If they can't blame Israel, they will blame the west (today it's Canada). Because the Palestinians who voted for a terrorist organization are innocent little lambs who simply can't help themselves. Hating gays and women is simply not to be talked about EVER. If you bring it up, you're nothing but a Zionist apologist (or something equally as stupid).

[iandhr]

76. +1

[azurnoir]

78. excuse me but isn't Canada the country that is threatening to deport to where ever it is they're

deporting too, Palestine has already been debunked

but I do applaud comments like yours for the concern they show

[leftynyc]

82. You mean the way

treatment of women and gays is completely glossed over by you and your pals? That must be what you mean because after over a decade here my record on women's rights and gay rights is there for everyone to see.

[King_David]

83. +1

[azurnoir]

85. any question I had about this OP which would seem to be about a man being deported from Canada

was answered quite eloquently here

Star Member King_David (12,113 posts)
16. Not their host countries

This OP is about Palestine .

One of the worst culprits.

This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105467

so is this person 'John Calvin' your actual concern here? You seem to state the OP isn't really about him

[King_David]

88. Don't know quite what you getting at there

The OP is about a Gay Palestinian refugee in Canada fearing for his life that he may be sent back to the place , he escaped from.
A place where on the Gay front , is culturally backwards in their treatment of Gays, barbaric in their treatment of gays , Middle Ages in their treatment of Gays.

That someone has to fear for his life because they are being sent back to a place that may kill him and put him to death because he was born gay is shameful.

Shame on Canada and Stephen Harper for not saving his life by sending him back to the Middle Ages

[azurnoir]

89. except it's already been pointed out he simply can not be sent directly back there

th most logical place he could be sent and the one that controls all border entries and exits save one, (Rafah) is reputedly the most Gay friendly country in the region and well that country wouldn't deport a Gay man just because of his ethnic background would it?

[King_David]

94. Not sure that makes any difference

At all...

Doesn't change the story

At all

Doesn't change the fact that he's fearful for his life should he return to Palestine.

At all

Doesn't whitewash the fact that Palestinian treatment of gays and culture toward Gays is back in the Middle Ages.

At all

[azurnoir]

97. Thank you

Star Member King_David (12,113 posts)
16. Not their host countries

This OP is about Palestine .

One of the worst culprits.

This poor Guy is being sent back there to a certain death.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105467

King_David
94. Not sure that makes any difference

View profile
At all...

Doesn't change the story

At all

Doesn't change the fact that he's fearful for his life should he return to Palestine.

At all

Doesn't whitewash the fact that Palestinian treatment of gays and culture toward Gays is back in the Middle Ages.

At all

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105783

[King_David]

101. You welcome and it seems you've come around... There's absolutely nothing worse or more bigoted

Than anyone attempting to whitewash homophobia anywhere : goes for Russia, Uganda, IS , Palestine or Iran.

So thank you for that turn.

[azurnoir]

102. come round to what exactly?

[azurnoir]

84. Nope not what I meant but your need to reply with accusations and insults (again)

speaks for itself

[leftynyc]

86. Truth equal insults in your world

Whatever.

[azurnoir]

87. what truth? as I see it there wasn't much in your comment

excepr for your concern about womens issues, albeit it seems rather limited to Muslim/Palestinian/Arab women, perhaps I missed something

[shira]

95. Not just women and gays in Gaza, but also Christians, Fatah supporters....

....and even worse, children used as human shields, for child labor (digging tunnels until they die), and utilized as child-combatants & praised as martyrs for the cause.

These Palestinians (the vast majority of Gazans) don't have human rights under Hamas according to PEP's for BDS. PEP's will never harshly condemn Hamas for any of that. They simply do what Hamas wants them to do (blame Israel 24-7-365 while running interference for Hamas' war crimes & brutality against their own civilians). Why should Hamas stop doing what they're doing to their own civilians with friends like PEP's who enable their behavior & deflect all criticism from them?

It's hard to hate and loathe Palestinians more than PEP's.

[azurnoir]

106. here's the meaning of PEP written in manner you might appreciate too

myself I think he's as extremist as those he tries to demonize

Amongst those on the Hard Left, there is a term that people use to disparage Liberal, or Progressive Zionists. They call us PEP – Progressive Except for Palestine. These folks on the Hard Left (and the Hard Rightists that pose as Hard Leftists) often like to whine about how we in the Zionist Movement that still support the principles of Labor Zionism, and the founders of the Haganah / Yishuv, claim that this support is disingenuous because we support an Israel with the ability to maintain itself as the National Homeland and State of the Jewish people. No matter that we support a viable Two State Solution, No matter that we support equal civil rights for Arab Citizens of Israel, No matter that we support women’s rights, or the rights of the LGBT community, or the rights of women to pray at the Wall, or the rights of women, children and others to live in a nation and a world free of bigotry and oppression. They maintain only that because we don’t support the rights of the Palestinians to deny the legitimate right of self determination of the Jewish people, that somehow we are raging Right Wingers.

We are seeing this emerging again and again lately, within the extreme Left and stoked by those on the bigoted Right who merely see a number of useful idiots on the Left to further their own anti-Semitic goals (think Jewish Voice for Peace or Tikkun). More and more lately we see it in the hateful and bigoted BDS and Campus Divestment Movements, where straight out anti-Semites and their useful idiot friends try to paint Jewish and Pro-Zionist liberals into a corner of being members of the Conservative Lunatic Fringe and thus discrediting them with younger more liberal leaning students.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/progressive-except-for-palestine-pep-a-real-progressive-response/

[King_David]

5. Would Gays Be Executed or Imprisoned by a Palestinian State?

Yesterday, the Palestinian Liberation Organization's ambassador to the U.S. wouldn't say whether homosexuals would be tolerated in a Palestinian state. At the Jerusalem Post, Benjamin Weinthal points out that the death penalty is the price for being gay in the Gaza strip:

The Hamas-controlled Gaza strip has declared homosexuality punishable by death. Hamas cofounder Mahmoud Zahar has said, “You in the West do not live like human beings. You do not even live like animals. You accept homosexuality. And now you criticize us?”

In an April broadcast on Hamas’s Al-Aksa TV, which was translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Syrian academic Muhammad Rateb al- Nabulsi said, “Homosexuality involves a filthy place, and does not generate offspring. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of the homosexual. That is why, brothers, homosexuality carries the death penalty.”




http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/would-gays-be-executed-or-imprisoned-palestinian-state_593540.html

[King_David]

6. Nothing has changed in Gay Palestine

Hamas say gays are perverts will be punished if they win elections

Hamas, the militant and political group in the Palestinian Territories have said that they win the Palestinian Authority Parliamentary election, they would ban men and women dancing together and will strip gay men and women of the few rights they have in the territory that they have at present.

Dr Mahmoud Zahar (pictured), the groups leader in Gaza, in an article on an Arabic website condemned the rights that gays have in Israel and made it clear that he thinks that gays are perverts. “Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?” He asked on the Elaph website.





http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2005/10/10/hamas-say-gays-are-perverts-will-be-punished-if-they-win-elections/

[grossproffit]

48. I'd have thought the petition would have had 10's of thousands of signatures by now.

Why aren't there more signatures?

[link:https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay|

[shaayecanaan]

56. Canada can't deport him to palestine

As far as Canada is concerned Palestine does not exist and they have no diplomatic relations with it. Moreover Palestine has neither the ability nor the capacity to accept deportees.

It's quite a strange story really, and certainly very colourful as John Calvin tells it.

[azurnoir]

57. finally, they could however I suppose deport him to Israel who fits the criteria for deportation

albeit he's not an Israeli citizen

[shaayecanaan]

58. Would the Israelis accept him?

I can't think of an instance where the Israelis have accepted a Palestinian deportee.

[azurnoir]

62. Egypt, Israel or Jordan would all be possibilities

[Jefferson23]

91. It seems definite deportation is what will occur next and where he may end up, as you say...but

after that, I haven't found anything associated with the case to being giving a clue, so far.

[azurnoir]

99. well for starters it may be because John Calvin isn't actually his name

An Edmonton resident is facing deportation because of his family’s links with the terrorist organization Hamas.

In fact, John Calvin, who does not use his real name, told CTV News that his family was one of the founders of the group.

“It is pretty close to ISIS. They are vicious when it comes to anything they are doing,” he explained

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/edmonton-man-fears-for-his-life-after-being-issued-deportation-notice-1.2171459

seems almost odd this guy allows his picture to posted but will say what his real name is

[oberliner]

59. You have no idea what you are talking about

Of course they have the ability and capacity to accept deportees. Jordan has deported several Palestinians back to the West Bank.

In this case, Canada would deport "John Calvin" to Jordan (which is where he arrived in Canada from) and Jordan would deport him to the West Bank.

[azurnoir]

61. so you admit the comment is correct despite a title line that saying the opposite

or you seem to confuse Palestine with Jordan?

oberliner
59. You have no idea what you are talking about
View profile
Of course they have the ability and capacity to accept deportees. Jordan has deported several Palestinians back to the West Bank.

In this case, Canada would deport "John Calvin" to Jordan (which is where he arrived in Canada from) and Jordan would deport him to the West Bank.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105740

[oberliner]

63. "Moreover Palestine has neither the ability nor the capacity to accept deportees. "

Not true. They have accepted deportees from Jordan.

[azurnoir]

64. The subject is accepting deportees from Canada unlike Jordan Israel and Egypt

Canada does not have the relations with Palestine to facilitate that

[shaayecanaan]

66. have they?

Post it up. Otherwise I stand by earlier comments - Israel controls the border, therefore who crosses it is their decision. The Palestinians are hardly "accepting" deportees if the decision is being made for them.

[oberliner]

72. Officials from Jordan's Ministry of Justice said Jordan does deport Palestinians to the West Bank

Officials from Jordan's Ministry of Justice said Jordan does deport Palestinians to the West Bank, depending on the gravity of the case. They declined, however, to give figures on the number of individuals who have been deported. Sources in the ministry said that no more than five people have been deported in the past four years.

Palestinian Ambassador to Jordan Attallah Khairi said the problem of extradition exists, but he played down its significance.

"Jordan did not shirk its responsibility to the Palestinian Authority on this issue, but cooperation on issues of financial corruption could be improved," he told The Media Line.

Khiri said the Palestinian Authority and Jordan cooperate under the Riyadh Agreement between members of the Arab League, which allows the extradition of individuals sentenced to prison for more than one year.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/The-Palestinian-great-escape

[azurnoir]

90. Jordan does seem to an extradition treaty with the PA applicable to criminals fleeing prosecution

albeit that would not be the case here more from your article

Abdullah Ashee, a 45-year old investor, is wanted in the West Bank for alleged fraud. But two years ago, while his case was being considered in a court in the West Bank city of Ramallah, he fled to neighboring Jordan. He says he entered Jordan legally and that he fled his home because he does not trust the Palestinian Authority’s legal system.

The situation is complicated by the close ties between the West Bank and Jordan. Jordan ruled the area from 1948 to 1967, when it came under Israeli control. An estimated 800,000 Palestinians living in the West Bank, out of a total population of 2.6 million, hold Jordanian citizenship, the impact of which is strengthened where there are close family ties.

Jordanian law prohibits the extradition of Jordanian citizens except in exceptional cases, so the kingdom’s government is unlikely to extradite Palestinians to the West Bank once they have entered Jordan.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/The-Palestinian-great-escape

[shaayecanaan]

65. Are you disagreeing with me or not?

Because shittyfitty antics aside, you've simply confirmed what I said - Canada can deport him to Jordan, presuming that that is where he came from, and then Jordan will have to deal with him. Canada cannot deport him to Palestine.

The Palestinians don't control the border with Jordan - Israel does. Therefore whether he ends up in the West Bank depends on whether Israel is prepared to accept him.

Normally the Jordanians will only grant a passport to a palestinian if they hold a current ID card, so that the Israelis should allow that person to cross back via the Allenby bridge.

Obviously, if you're relying on specific instances, you should link to them.

[oberliner]

71. Sorry - that was an obnoxious response of mine

I apologize for the rude tone. You actually raise a good point about the logistics of Canada deporting this guy to the West Bank. Since I assume you've read a little about this story, it is an established fact that he has been presented with a deportation order. I would think that you wouldn't be disputing that. It's also established that he lived in Jordan prior to going to Canada. It seems like he would therefore be deported to Jordan who would then coordinate with the PA (and Israel) to have him sent back to the West Bank. Or they could stick him in a refugee camp in Jordan. These details ought to be made clearer in stories about this situation.

[King_David]

67. "Colorful" ?

[azurnoir]

70. well I'd say this thread is indeed colorful

the concern for this young man being deported from Canada to a place he cannot be deported to is touching indeed and that is your first concern right, the fate of John Calvin?

[oberliner]

73. You should Google the deportation order

I bet you can find the full text of it online.

[azurnoir]

77. doesn't address my comment but why don't you post it for us, okay ?

[King_David]

75. A Gay guy in distress about being sent back

To a Gay - medieval place that he says will kill him because he was born Gay is "colorful "?



Only in this group.

Let me tell you that Defense of Gay rights and Gays in distress and abhorrence of homophobia are DU values and anything less than that has no place on DU.

[azurnoir]

79. No that has already been debunked Canada can deport him to Israel Jordan or Egypt

and what becomes of him after that is laid on the shoulders of that both Canada for deporting him in the first place and the country he's deported to

[King_David]

81. Well if that's the case, and you're right,thank God he won't be deported to Palestine

where he fears death because he was born Gay..... It's totally Backwards.

[GeoWilliam750]

92. Please link to articles showing

Where somebody has been executed in Palestine for being gay. Not a gay person that was executed for murder or being a spy, or some other crime, but simply because he was gay.

It would be very interesting to see the list.

[King_David]

93. Read the OP

The Gay Palestinian refugee is claiming if he's returned to Palestine his life will be in danger.

I don't need go look for anything else your asking for, the OP says precisely that.

[azurnoir]

98. why does it seem you can't list the names of Palestinians that were killed for being Gay?

I'd think that would be rather important

[King_David]

100. The Gay Palestinian

Who unlike you and me actually comes from Palestine is fearful for his life because he's gay.

Are you trying to say you know better than him?

Are you saying that it's okay to be Gay in Palestine ?

Cos somehow you know better than this Gay Palestinian.

Palestine where it comes to Gays is a cultural backwater of a place and you should be abhorred by homophobia.

I don't think anything civil is left to say and I find it very distasteful and homophobic should anyone try whitewash homophobia be it in Russia, Uganda, Palestine, IS or Iran. So don't even try that please it has no place on DU.

[azurnoir]

103. Please list Palestinians who were killed only for being Gay or at least a documented number

your comment did not address the question

[King_David]

104. Are you trying to defend Stephen Harpers right wing government for sending him back to a place that

the Gay Palestinian guy says will mean certain death if he goes back there?

I hope not...

And your demand is totally IRRELEVANT.

And I will not continue this very distasteful line that this conversation has gone down

And we are done here.

[azurnoir]

105. what is distasteful about asking you to enumerate those whose plight you've been telling us about?

I really don't get it

[leftynyc]

112. Unbelivable

It's like if you don't name names, Palestine is actually a haven for gays (and women). Ticky tacky bullshit just to deflect from the fact that gays are targets in Palestine as well as just about every other Muslim dominated country in the world. Utter and complete bullshit which is nothing but an embarrassing display of proving Bill Maher right.

[guillaumeb]

96. Why did Israel not make a humanitarian exception?

From the article:
"The Canadian government believes the 24-year-old is, or was, a member of the Palestinian militant organization Hamas and therefore is ineligible to seek asylum in Canada as a refugee.
But Calvin fled his chaotic upbringing under one of the most notorious pro-Hamas families in Palestine at the age of 19, which is why he says he has taken on a new name, and a new life, in Canada.

Also from the article:
"After a “huge fight” with his family in 2005, Calvin ran away from home and fled into Israel, where he was detained for not having the proper documentation to enter the country."

[Agnosticsherbet]

107. Jordan’s LGBT Community Fears Greater Intolerance

Because deportation to Jordan has come up, it is good to understand the state of law there.
It is not illegal to be gay, but they are not protected from discrimination.

Jordan’s LGBT Community Fears Greater Intolerance
“Jordan does not have any laws against homosexuality; it does not, however, protect civil liberties for people facing discrimination on basis of their sexual preferences,” says Madian, a local activist.

[azurnoir]

108. also from your article

I know of four people at least who were killed in last few years for this reason,” says Madian.

He also says that while some victims have been the target of honour killings, others have been killed by gangs because they had to seek impoverished and dangerous areas for sexual favours to avoid the scrutiny of friends and families.

Nevertheless, despite such individual cases, the topic of homosexuality seems to be increasingly tolerated in Jordan. In 2012, a book called “Arous Amman” (Amman’s fiancée) by Fadi Zaghmout was published, featuring a homosexual character who was driven to marry a woman despite being gay.

Increasingly, Facebook pages and Twitter accounts are advocating gay rights and the LGBT community in the country.

“The LGBT community has been able to carve a space for itself in society, while staying away from anything that could raise its profile,” says Adam Coogle, a researcher at Human Rights Watch.

http://www.ipsnews.net/2014/08/jordans-lgbt-community-fears-greater-intolerance/

[grossproffit]

113. 456 signatures needed to reach 5000.

https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[grossproffit]

115. 367 signatures needed to reach 5000

https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[grossproffit]

116. 135 signatures still needed to reach 5000

https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[grossproffit]

117. Less than 50 signatures still needed to reach the first goal of 5000

https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay

[link:https://www.change.org/p/canadian-government-allow-john-calvin-to-stay|