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Mon May 4, 2015, 10:40 AM

'If you spot someone, shoot': Israeli soldiers describe Gaza war

More than 60 Israeli soldiers have provided testimony on their time fighting in Gaza during Israel's summer 2014 assault on the enclave

May 4, 2015


A child sits among the rubble of Gaza after Israel's 50-day assault during the summer of 2014 (AFP)

A human rights group in Israel released a report on Monday including the testimonies of more than 60 soldiers which it says provides evidence the Israeli army may have committed “grave violations” of international law during their assault on Gaza last summer.

Soldiers told Breaking the Silence, a group comprised of former Israeli soldiers, that all Palestinians - civilians and fighters alike - were considered "targets" and that the invading Israeli forces wantonly destroyed swathes of Gaza’s residential areas.

More than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in Israel’s 50-day war against Hamas - an estimated 70 percent of casualties were civilian - and some 18,000 homes were destroyed or severely damaged. On the Israeli side 66 soldiers and six civilians were killed.

Several testimonies given to Breaking the Silence describe the complete absence of rules of engagement in the war, and include allegations that Palestinian civilians were considered terrorists in Gaza.

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/if-you-spot-someone-shoot-israeli-soldiers-describe-losing-their-morality-gaza-war-1149151567

34 replies, 2737 views

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Reply 'If you spot someone, shoot': Israeli soldiers describe Gaza war (Original post)
Jefferson23 May 2015 OP
DetlefK May 2015 #1
Jefferson23 May 2015 #2
Israeli May 2015 #9
Jefferson23 May 2015 #11
Israeli May 2015 #12
Jefferson23 May 2015 #13
Israeli May 2015 #14
Israeli May 2015 #15
Jefferson23 May 2015 #16
Israeli May 2015 #18
R. Daneel Olivaw May 2015 #19
azurnoir May 2015 #20
Jefferson23 May 2015 #21
Israeli May 2015 #23
Jefferson23 May 2015 #25
Israeli May 2015 #26
Jefferson23 May 2015 #28
oberliner May 2015 #27
azurnoir May 2015 #30
Jefferson23 May 2015 #17
R. Daneel Olivaw May 2015 #3
Jefferson23 May 2015 #4
guillaumeb May 2015 #5
azurnoir May 2015 #6
Jefferson23 May 2015 #7
Israeli May 2015 #10
guillaumeb May 2015 #8
R. Daneel Olivaw May 2015 #24
polly7 May 2015 #22
Jefferson23 May 2015 #29
polly7 May 2015 #31
Jefferson23 May 2015 #32
polly7 May 2015 #33
polly7 May 2015 #34

Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 11:01 AM

1. The IDF will give itself a full&fair investigation whether it committed war-crimes.

"“The rules of engagement for soldiers advancing on the ground were: open fire, open fire everywhere, first thing when you go in,” said one infantry soldier who operated in Gaza City.

“The assumption being that the moment we went in [to Gaza], anyone who dared poke his head out was a terrorist.”

Other accounts include allegations that Israeli troops were briefed by senior officers to open fire on anyone they came across in the coastal enclave.

“There weren’t really any rules of engagement. It was more protocols,” said another infantry sergeant, whose unit was in northern Gaza.

“They told us, ‘there aren’t supposed to be any civilians there. If you spot someone, shoot.’ Whether it posed a threat or not wasn’t a question, and that makes sense to me. If you shoot someone in Gaza, it’s cool, no big deal.”
"

...

"Two American lawyers given “inside access” to the Israeli army recently released a report that concluded the Gaza assault complied with international law. "

...

"Israeli officials failed to respond to requests for specific comment on testimonies released by Breaking the Silence, however, they did provide a general statement to the Guardian.

“The IDF (Israeli army) is committed to properly investigating all credible claims raised via media, NGOs and official complaints concerning IDF conduct during Operation Protective Edge, in as serious a manner as possible,” said a military spokesperson.

“It should be noted that following Operation Protective Edge, thorough investigations were carried out, and soldiers and commanders were given the opportunity to present any complaint. Exceptional incidents were then transferred to the military advocate general for further inquiry.”
"

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Response to DetlefK (Reply #1)

Mon May 4, 2015, 11:59 AM

2. Israeli policy doing what it does best to Palestinians.

Kudos to Breaking the Silence.. an outstanding group.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #2)

Tue May 5, 2015, 06:26 AM

9. Likud policy doing what it does best to ....

....Left wing human rights groups .....

Likud MK lies to lefty NGO in attempt to discredit it

Posing as IDF reservist, Oren Hazan gives false testimony to Breaking The Silence group on rights abuses by IDF in Gaza

Source : http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-mk-lies-to-lefty-ngo-in-attempt-to-embarrass-it/

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Response to Israeli (Reply #9)

Tue May 5, 2015, 08:08 PM

11. Israel's policy supporters/sympathizers are so threatened by human rights groups, they'll say and do

just about anything, like this man did. Since the Geller attack, you can read the current of, see, they
can't be trusted to respond non-violently...just one group of people do these types of
things. It is pretty fascinating to read the rationale and the exclusive pedestal they have placed
themselves on.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #11)

Wed May 6, 2015, 04:30 AM

12. Fascinating indeed....

see : http://www.israellycool.com/2015/05/05/washington-post-publishes-unverified-anonymous-claims-from-bts/

Right wing english websites are having an orgy with excuses .

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Response to Israeli (Reply #12)

Wed May 6, 2015, 08:39 AM

13. What an extraordinary apologist for Israeli policy...Bibi would be proud.

Damn those human rights groups, agenda driven with that damn moral compass
in place. What will the world come to if they are ever to be believed...his mindset
is pitiful.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #14)

Thu May 7, 2015, 06:24 AM

15. Here you go ......its official :

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/1.655322

MK Uri Ariel will become agriculture minister, giving Habayit Hayehudi control over the World Zionist Organization’s Settlement Division, which is used to fund infrastructure for West Bank settlements. Ariel will also be responsible for Bedouin affairs. The party will also be allowed to name a deputy defense minister from its ranks.


In addition, the NGO bill will likely be passed,
........

ref : Draft bill: NGOs with foreign funding to be defined 'foreign agents'
Right-wing MKs say organizations operate with a lack of transparency, Israeli public does not benefit from their activity.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.592754

The bill was initiated by MKs Ayelet Shaked (Habayit Hayehudi), Robert Ilatov (Yisrael Beitenu) and Yariv Levin (Likud), and constitutes another attempt to promote legislation that will limit the ability of human rights organizations operating in Israel to receive funding for their activity.


Peace Now Secretary General Yariv Oppenheimer criticized the initiative. “Ayelet Shaked and Robert Ilatov have joined the recycling trend and have also decided to recycle garbage. Their draft bill is full of lies and distortions, and has no resemblance to the situation in the United States or in any other democratic country. The entire purpose of the proposal is to incite and delegitimize the peace camp,” said Oppenheimer.


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Response to Israeli (Reply #15)

Thu May 7, 2015, 10:09 AM

16. Control freaks, I don't know what else you label these actions, dangerous. n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #16)

Fri May 8, 2015, 03:54 AM

18. Tick the boxes ....

?itok=gXeUP0ru


Signs of fascism in Israel reached new peak during Gaza op, says renowned scholar

Israel Prize laureate and renowned scholar Zeev Sternhell fears the collapse of Israeli democracy, and compares the current atmosphere with that of 1940s’ France. The time we have left to reverse this frightening trend is running out, he warns

By Gidi Weitz | Aug. 13, 2014

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.610368

I asked Sternhell now whether he thinks that very soon, we will no longer be able to claim that we are the only democracy in the Middle East.

“Indeed, we will no longer be able to say that,” he replied, adding, “There is no doubt that the main state authorities do not act with the same determination against the right and against the left, or on the eastern side of the Green Line and on the western side. All in all, these bodies view themselves as much closer to the settlement project’s aims than to the goal of Israel having a Jewish majority and a democracy that grants equality to everyone. The danger is that in good periods, when everything is ostensibly normal, the situation is glossed over. But in a crisis, like we have now, anyone critical of the ‘normal’ order is absolutely afraid to go out in the street.”


How long do we have until the end of the story?

“A few years. Israel is now the last colonial country in the West. How long will that continue? If not for the memory of the Holocaust and the fear of being accused of anti-Semitism, Europe would have long since boycotted the settlements. I would begin by evacuating Ariel University, because it’s easy to do. It’s easier to remove a university than it is to remove three trailers. It’s a symbolic act. That wretched college was made a university in order to demonstrate something.

“Why do I so much want a border between the two countries? To prevent the emergence of one state here, because with one state there will be an apartheid regime. After all, no one here is playing with the idea that there will be civic equality between Nablus and Tel Aviv. There will be a civil war here, in the best case, and in the worst case there will be an apartheid state in which we will rule the Arabs without the dimension of transience that is still attached to the territories – even though it’s obvious to anyone with eyes in his head that the transience has long since vanished and that there is an apartheid situation in the West Bank.”


Is there anyone in Israeli politics who scares you?

“The group led by [Naftali] Bennett and [Uri] Ariel scares me – I think they are extremely dangerous. I think that [Avigdor] Lieberman is a little less dangerous, because he lacks religious fervor. But they and the right-wing branch of Likud are truly dangerous people, because they really don’t understand what democracy is, what human rights are, and they truly and deeply hate the Arabs in a way that doesn’t allow for coexistence here. You ask whether there are similarities between Marine Le Pen in France and Bennett – of course there are. In some ways she is a dangerous left-winger compared to him. If Netanyahu really wants to enter the history books, he needs to dismantle the partnership with the right, split Likud and establish a centrist government with the support of the left, and not be ashamed to rely on the Arabs’ votes.”


Well worth reading it all Jefferson.

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Response to Israeli (Reply #18)

Fri May 8, 2015, 09:34 AM

19. A few years?

 


I'm sorry to read that. If true the turmoil, hatreds, revulsion and recrimination that will be generated from such a future will have far reaching implications.

May Israel pull through. Wishful thinking, but what else do we have?

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Response to Israeli (Reply #18)

Fri May 8, 2015, 09:42 AM

20. Sad and disturbing to put it mildly

and Shaked getting the Minister of Justice position is downright Orwellian

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Response to Israeli (Reply #18)

Fri May 8, 2015, 10:44 AM

21. Yes, I read it. It is damn bleak, perhaps more than ever. Apartheid or Bantustanville.

Thank you for the links, I appreciate it.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #21)

Sun May 10, 2015, 03:12 AM

23. Ministers approve 'unconstitutional' bill penalizing left-wing NGOs

A bill to restrict funding to leftist nonprofit organization won the government’s approval Sunday passing the Ministerial Committee for Legislation by an 8-4 vote. The ministers supporting it belonged to Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu and Habayit Hayehudi, while the four opponents were Tzipi Livni (Hatnuah), and Yesh Atid’s Yair Lapid, Jacob Perry and Yael German.

The approved version changed two clauses in the original proposal: That a leftist nonprofit would be penalized even if only one member of its board violated one of the clauses for which sanctions are imposed, and that sanctions would be imposed on organizations working against “the Jewish-democratic identity of the state.” The latter clause would have included negating, even implicitly, Israel’s existence as a Jewish state, or calling for the separation of religion and state.

In an unusual move, it was agreed that the bill would be debated again by the ministerial panel after it passes its preliminary reading in the Knesset.

Under the revised bill, certain nonprofits that receive donations from a foreign entity would be required to pay a 45 percent tax on the contributions. The law would apply to groups that work for or call on others to boycott Israel, stop investing in Israel, or impose sanctions on the state or its citizens. It would also apply to groups calling to prosecute IDF soldiers for war crimes, subsequently exposing such alleged acts, or calling to investigate them.

Prior to the vote, Deputy Attorney General Avi Licht informed committee members that the bill was unconstitutional. “We would not be able to defend this decision before the High Court of Justice,” he said.

Weinstein: ‘Chilling effect’

Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein has said the bill violates a series of constitutional rights, including freedom of expression and freedom of association. He claims that 45 percent tax is not a tax at all, but a fine, “a kind of punitive measure, which aims to create a ‘chilling effect’ and prevent donations to organizations, thus harming free discourse in Israel, which is one of the key democratic anchors of the state.”

Weinstein added that “restricting donations and undermining the free discourse of third sector organizations, which includes human rights abuses, is done in a number of states that it’s doubtful Israel wants to be lumped together with.”


In 2011, a similar bill was submitted by then-MK (now Deputy Minister) Faina Kirshenbaum (Yisrael Beiteinu), which imposed a 45 percent tax on donations from foreign countries to organizations that are not supported by the government. Weinstein warned then that the bill was unconstitutional, but Netanyahu said he supported it in principle, subject to several changes including a distinction between organizations whose activities deal with human rights and political groups. He also said he wanted to raise the level of contributions that organizations would be permitted to collect. In the end, Netanyahu did not back that bill, which was merged with another one proposed by MK Ofir Akunis (Likud), and which stated that political groups would not be able to raise more than 20,000 shekels ($5,709) from foreign countries.

Meretz chairman MK Zahava Galon said, “The real purpose of the law is incitement against peace groups and against human rights groups, and to harm the contributions to organizations whose perspective is contrary to the views of the settlers and right-wing government.

“This law stems from a clear anti-democracy ideology, and the fact is that no such similar law exists in any democratic country,” she said. “The law will turn the State of Israel into a pariah and an outcast among developed Western countries.”


Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.563674

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Response to Israeli (Reply #23)

Mon May 11, 2015, 09:33 AM

25. Galon is stating there is the potential for Israel to become a pariah state...that is new.

Don't think I have ever heard that language before from Galon.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #25)

Tue May 12, 2015, 06:08 AM

26. She has said a lot worse Jefferson.....

....but in Hebrew ....Shulamit Aloni she is not ...but she comes a close second .

Meretz leader Zahava Gal-On is not looking to be loved

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/meretz-leader-zahava-gal-on-is-not-looking-to-be-loved-1.450761

No paywall !! ..... ...........

Despite such advice, Gal-On apparently intends to keep “annoying” everyone. That's who she is: an avowed leftist and secular, a fighter for human rights, an opponent of the occupation, and a supporter of social justice who opposes religious coercion.


Thus, in 2011, Gal-On returned to the Knesset, and during that year was elected to lead Meretz: a classic leftist who sees the struggle for social justice also as a fight against the occupation, against the violation of Palestinian human rights, against continued illegal construction in the territories and excessive budgetary allotments to the ultra-Orthodox.

“I’m not one of those people who puts a finger up to see which way the wind is blowing,” says Gal-On. “I don’t see this party as a governing party, so I know I don’t appeal to all the public. We’re a true leftist party, and I know I irritate settlers and rightists.”


“When I was 15 I heard Shulamit Aloni speaking about the ... issue of ‘Who is a Jew,’ and was deeply impressed and started going to hear her on a regular basis and to read everything she wrote, even though the environment at my school was very right-wing, even Kahanistic,” says Gal-On. “Later, when I was a mother, I was sitting with friends in Petah Tikva, and since I’ve always loved the movies, and still do, and the only cinema there was closed on Shabbat, I said: this isn’t right, why don’t we stage some kind of protest? And one of the others said: Maybe I’ll call Shulamit Aloni and see if she’ll help us.

“From then on we stood in front of the Heichal Cinema every Friday − Shulamit Aloni and I and [Meretz member] Dedi Zucker and [the late professor and activist] Boaz Moav, and afterward the demonstrations started all over the country. And then Shulamit Aloni and Boaz said to me: You’re not going to become a teacher, you have to join Ratz. And Shula offered me the position of assistant director general of Ratz.”


I’m presenting an opposite approach. I don’t think it’s possible to have a social democracy without peace. There is no social justice and equality without talking about liberty. Nor can you have occupation and democracy simultaneously, and one also has to fight against the declaration about the social protest that ‘It’s not political.’ Everything’s political: It’s all one inclusive struggle and therefore one cannot talk about social protest and justice without talking about occupation.


A billion and a half shekels is going to maintain the settlements, from Kiryat Arba to Tekoa. One can’t embrace settlers without also saying that we are paying the price of the settlements. If we want social justice, it will only be possible if we stop the occupation. Therefore I think that all the talk about social democracy without there being actual democracy is nonsense.”


I dont need to go on and on ....you can read it for yourself .

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Response to Israeli (Reply #26)

Tue May 12, 2015, 03:00 PM

28. Good for her, and thanks for the link, I appreciate it. n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #25)

Tue May 12, 2015, 07:14 AM

27. No it's not

 

You obviously have not been following very closely.

“This is an official governmental stamp on a policy of apartheid in the territories," declared Meretz party chief Zehava Gal-On. "Separating Jews and Palestinians only deepens Israel’s status as a pariah state.” (2014)

"The annexation solution will not be accepted by the international community, and will make Israel a pariah state to the whole world."2012)

Have you ever tried Google?

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Response to Israeli (Reply #23)

Tue May 12, 2015, 05:42 PM

30. But yet donations from 'foreign entities' supporting the settlements will remain tax free

I suspect you'll most of those 'entities' located in the US

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Response to Israeli (Reply #14)

Thu May 7, 2015, 10:15 AM

17. This meme has legs, it is not unusual to see this sentiment expressed:

“In the last Gaza war there seems to be a shift to the right of the population,” said Bobby Brown, a longtime political observer and former advisor to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who lives in the West Bank settlement of Tekoa. “They feel the world is forcing us to make deals with people who want to kill us.”

The fear mongering works well in Israel, for the most part.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 02:06 PM

3. It's time to bring Israel before the ICC.

 

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Response to R. Daneel Olivaw (Reply #3)

Mon May 4, 2015, 05:47 PM

4. Would be a step in the right direction. n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 06:36 PM

5. And what does this do to the soldiers?

We know what it means for the Palestinians. They get killed, or brutalized, or dispossessed of land, orchards, homes.

But what does it do to the individual Israeli soldiers who commit these heinous acts? The world knows about PTSD and the problems associated with that syndrome. What will this brutalization of Israeli soldiers do to their society?

A case of the sword cutting both ways in this endless war of occupation.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #5)

Mon May 4, 2015, 07:24 PM

6. IDF reported 15 suicides among soldiers albeit they deny it had anything to do with Gaza

The total number of soldier suicides in the Israel Defense Forces has more than doubled in 2014 -- one year after the soldier suicide rate fell to a historic low, according to a report released Friday. The Israeli military denied any connection between the sharp increase and the Israel-Gaza conflict, the Jerusalem Post reported.

Seven Israeli soldiers committed suicide in 2013. Since then, 15 soldiers have taken their own lives, according to the military’s latest figures. Officials told local media there's no evidence that links the growing rate to last summer’s Gaza war. “We have not noticed any link between cases of suicide and army operations,” a senior officer in the IDF’s Personnel Directorate reportedly said, adding that the army is “doing all it can” to prevent suicides.

http://www.ibtimes.com/suicide-rates-more-doubled-among-soldiers-serving-israel-defense-forces-1772338

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)

Mon May 4, 2015, 08:27 PM

7. That is awful, there were no notes left or their family or friends that commented? n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Tue May 5, 2015, 06:40 AM

10. Of course there were Jefferson.....

......white-wash , pink-wash , orange-wash .....whats the color for suicide ?

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)

Mon May 4, 2015, 08:57 PM

8. Of course the IDF would deny a connection.

The US army generally denies similar connections. Just another example of the consequences of war. I would also wonder about increased rates of spousal/children abuse.

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Response to azurnoir (Reply #6)

Sun May 10, 2015, 12:53 PM

24. Use them then ignore them...

 


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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Fri May 8, 2015, 02:30 PM

22. K&R. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #22)

Tue May 12, 2015, 05:27 PM

29. Hi polly and thanks for the kick.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #29)

Tue May 12, 2015, 06:33 PM

31. You're welcome, I'm sorry I had missed this. nt.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #31)

Tue May 12, 2015, 06:35 PM

32. It's all good, and good to see you too. n/t

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #32)

Tue May 12, 2015, 06:36 PM

33. It's very good to see you, and thank you so much for all the interesting threads. nt.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Fri May 15, 2015, 03:06 PM

34. 'Open Fire Everywhere': Israeli Soldiers Describe Gaza War



Breaking the Silence said the rules of engagement were "the most permissive" they had ever heard.

“The rules of engagement for soldiers advancing on the ground were open fire, open fire everywhere, first thing as you go in,” One soldier was quoted as saying in the report. “The assumption being that the moment we went in [to the Gaza Strip], anyone who dared poke his head out was a terrorist. And it pretty much stayed that way throughout the operation.”



Another soldier described the systemic destruction of the houses in Gaza strip, which is believed to be one of the most densely populated areas in the world.

“The air force knows how to take down one house that׳s inside a neighborhood, but that does not mean all the houses around it don’t get damaged. It׳s not like the houses in the [Gaza] Strip are all new and protected with bomb shelters. In the end, these houses get damaged again and again and again, until they collapse.”

Breaking the Silence said the rules of engagement were "the most permissive" they had ever heard. The report indicated that the testimonies showed the inconsistency between what the Israeli government told the public verses what really took place on the ground.

The report added that the official military orders allow for fire only after identifying a weapon, intent, and the enemy’s realistic capability, something that the testimonies significantly contradicted.

“The (Israeli) public must know what missions its sons are being sent to carry out, and according to which norms the IDF (Israeli Defense Forces) acts in its name,” Novak told the Middle East Eye website.


VIDEO

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Open-Fire-Everywhere-Israeli-Soldiers-Describe-Gaza-War-20150505-0004.html

Just a bit more on this.

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