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Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:23 AM

War with Isis: President Obama demands Turkey close stretch of border with Syria



Ankara is accused of tolerance of – if not complicity with – the terrorists, who use border as a crossing point for Isis recruits and oil sales

Patrick Cockburn

1 hour ago

The US is demanding that Turkey close a 60-mile stretch of its border with Syria which is the sole remaining crossing point for Isis militants, including some of those involved in the massacre in Paris and other terrorist plots.

The complete closure of the 550-mile-long border would be a serious blow to Isis, which has brought tens of thousands of Islamist volunteers across the frontier over the past three years.

In the wake of the Isis attacks in Paris, Washington is making clear to Ankara that it will no longer accept Turkish claims that it is unable to cordon off the remaining short section of the border still used by Isis. “The game has changed. Enough is enough. The border needs to be sealed,” a senior official in President Barack Obama’s administration told The Wall Street Journal, describing the tough message that Washington has sent to the Turkish government. “This is an international threat, and it’s coming out of Syria and it’s coming through Turkish territory.”

The US estimates some 30,000 Turkish troops would be needed to close the border between Jarabulus on the Euphrates and the town of Kilis, further west in Turkey, according to the paper. US intelligence agencies say that the stretch of frontier most commonly used by Isis is between Jarabulus, where the official border crossing has been closed, and the town of Cobanbey.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/war-with-isis-president-obama-demands-that-turkey-close-stretch-of-frontier-with-syria-a6753836.html

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Reply War with Isis: President Obama demands Turkey close stretch of border with Syria (Original post)
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 OP
bemildred Nov 2015 #1
bemildred Nov 2015 #2
bemildred Nov 2015 #3
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #4
bemildred Nov 2015 #5
bemildred Nov 2015 #8
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #11
bemildred Nov 2015 #12
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #13
bemildred Nov 2015 #14
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #17
bemildred Nov 2015 #19
bemildred Nov 2015 #6
bemildred Nov 2015 #7
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #9
bemildred Nov 2015 #10
Jesus Malverde Nov 2015 #28
bemildred Dec 2015 #29
bemildred Nov 2015 #15
bemildred Nov 2015 #16
bemildred Nov 2015 #18
bemildred Nov 2015 #20
bemildred Nov 2015 #21
bemildred Nov 2015 #22
KoKo Dec 2015 #30
bemildred Dec 2015 #35
bemildred Nov 2015 #23
bemildred Nov 2015 #24
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #25
KoKo Dec 2015 #34
bemildred Nov 2015 #26
Jefferson23 Nov 2015 #27
KoKo Dec 2015 #32
Jefferson23 Dec 2015 #31
KoKo Dec 2015 #33
Jefferson23 Dec 2015 #36

Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:03 PM

1. Obama, Putin discuss Syria, Ukraine at summit -White House

PARIS, Nov 30 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the Syria crisis and the situation in Ukraine during a meeting Monday on the sidelines of the climate summit in Paris, a White House official said.

Obama stressed the importance of targeting Islamic State militants in Syria and not focusing military attacks against rebel groups who oppose Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, the official said on customary condition of anonymity.

"The two presidents discussed the imperative of making progress on the Vienna process to bring about a ceasefire and political resolution to the civil war in Syria," the official said, referring to international talks in the Austrian capital on the Syria crisis.

Obama told Putin he believes Assad must leave power as part of a that transition, and both leaders said their foreign ministers will continue to work on the diplomatic process, the official added.

http://www.trust.org/item/20151130152025-64oqs/

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Response to bemildred (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:04 PM

2. UAE says ready to commit ground troops in Syria

ABU DHABI - The United Arab Emirates has said it is ready to commit ground troops against jihadists in Syria and described Russian air strikes in the country as attacks on a "common enemy".

Quoted by the official WAM news agency on Monday, Emirati State Minister for Foreign Affairs Anwar Gargash said the UAE would "participate in any international effort demanding a ground intervention to fight terrorism".

"Regional countries must bear part of the burden" of such an intervention, he said during a Sunday discussion on Syria.

The UAE is a member of the US-led coalition carrying out air strikes against the jihadist Islamic State group in territory under its control in Syria and Iraq.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=74189

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Response to bemildred (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:05 PM

3. NATO Chief Asks Turkey to Ease Tensions with Russia

Brussels, Nov 30 (Prensa Latina) The secretary General of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), Jens Stoltenberg, on Monday asked Turkey to ease tensions with Moscow after the downing of a Russian bomber in Syria.
Stoltenberg suggested Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu the importance of taking measures to prevent the repetition of an incident like the one on November 24, when a Russian Su-24 plane was attacked by a Turkish F-16 fighter and was downed on Syrian territory.

The important thing is to reduce tension, so I welcome all possible contacts between Moscow and Ankara, said the NATO chief after meeting here with Davutoglu.

From Moscow, the Kremlin said that no meeting will be held between the presidents of Russia, Vladimir Putin, and Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in the framework of the Summit on Climate Change being held in Paris.

http://www.plenglish.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4393341&Itemid=1

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Response to bemildred (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:20 PM

4. We shall see. Good to see Turkey openly exposed too..he must be nuts if he thought that

was going to give him an edge downing their aircraft.

Off topic, somewhat..thanks for the links, I have come to rely on them,
hope you had a happy Thanksgiving too.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:39 PM

5. Thanksgiving was pleasant and quiet. Dinner with some family.

Same to you and my other friends here.

Yes, things are getting very "interesting". December should be busy too. I hesitate to try to say anything about it, it is such a mess. Such a lot of noise. But you have the feeling that things will be happening.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:52 PM

8. I think people are still adjusting to events.

I think we will get more definitive actions and statements this week on how people are going to come down on various disputes, alliances, etc. now that Thanksgiving is over.

Obama and Putin have met "on the sidelines" twice lately. Hmmm.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:00 PM

11. Yea, that is interesting about those two. I am relieved Erdogan is exposed, it was known and

understood before what he was doing but now with full exposure impossible
for everyone to ignore. Sorry that people had to die needlessly for that to occur,
what happens next, I don't know.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:08 PM

12. Yeah, I'm waiting to see what he comes up with next.

I think the border is going to be sealed and we will have to see what he does about that. And the loss of oil revenue could have all sorts of effects, but it's hard to forsee without knowing much more about "arrangements".

But he just got $3B out of the EU.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #12)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:12 PM

13. That's a tidy sum..we'll see if that and conditions set will change his wacked ambitions.

Which is kind of hard to believe all considered.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:20 PM

14. I don't think he can easlly quit.

There will be investigations as it is, out of power he will not last long, he has lots of enemies.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:32 PM

17. He has become prefectly dreadful for Turkey on many levels, and I have to wonder if

he is smart enough to look at recent history. Saddam use to be a powerful guy too
and not that long ago before it was all over. Even more recent, Assad was considered powerful as well.

As I understand it, the Kurdish minority distrust is not based on ethnic reasons,
but more about politics....the perceived loss of centralized political power?


I honestly don't know what's in his future, but he seems to have been given
a chance to do a reset...although not one he was reaching for.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #17)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:35 PM

19. I think the external powers will try to let Turkey work it out.

So yeah, he will be allowed to back off, his problems will be internal. Same deal with the Sauds I think. Regime change is in bad repute.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:42 PM

6. Nasty Surprises: the Problem With Bombing ISIS

by Patrick Cockburn

David Cameron’s plan for joining the war in Syria is a worrying document, full of wishful thinking about the political and military situation on the ground. It is a recipe for repeating past failures in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, by misjudging the strength of potential enemies and allies alike.

Mr Cameron presents a picture of what is happening in Syria and Iraq that reflects what the Government would like to be happening. If he and those responsible for carrying out British policy truly believe these views, then we are in for some nasty surprises

It is important to know if Isis is getting stronger or weaker in Iraq under the impact of more than 5,432 air strikes, 360 of them by British aircraft, carried out by the US-led coalition. The RAF has launched 1,600 missions, showing how difficult it is to target a guerrilla force from the air and it will face the same problem in Syria.

Mr Cameron says that with coalition air support, Iraqi forces have halted Isis’s advance and “recovered 30 per cent of Iraqi territory”. In reality, the situation is much worse. Isis captured Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, in May, routing the Iraqi army despite strong air support from the US. The territory it has lost is peripheral to its core areas in Mosul and along the Euphrates. The strongest anti-Isis forces in Iraq are the Shia militias backed by Iran, which the coalition does not support with air power.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/30/nasty-surprises-the-problem-with-bombing-isis/

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Response to bemildred (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:44 PM

7. Corbyn giving MPs free vote on Syrian airstrikes: report

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has given his MPs a free vote on the issue of Syria, a newspaper has reported. His decision could open the way for the UK to engage in military airstrikes on the nerve center of "IS."

In addition to giving his members of parliament (MP) the free vote, Corbyn, the leader of Britain's Labour party, will also ask Prime Minister David Cameron to postpone the vote, according to a report from The Guardian newspaper.

The opposition leader's decision solidifies Labour's anti-war stance, but could also pave the way for further British military involvement in the war-torn country, where the terrorist group known as the "Islamic State" (IS) has a strong foothold.

Corbyn has remained defiant in opposing airstrikes in Syria, but his party is more divided, with some MPs disagreeing with the leader over his anti-interventionism stance. Forcing his party to vote against the airstrikes, as the Labour leader had been considering doing, carried the risk of a possible rebellion from some members of his party.

http://www.dw.com/en/corbyn-giving-mps-free-vote-on-syrian-airstrikes-report/a-18885300

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Response to bemildred (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:54 PM

9. Here's the thing, how many damn times can one read the writing on the wall and still

continue to ignore it?

Mr Cameron’s explanation of his strategy is peppered with references to “moderates” whom he wisely does not identify because their existence is shadowy at best. It would, indeed, be very convenient if such a powerful group existed, but unfortunately it does not.


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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 12:57 PM

10. Cameron is desperately afraid of being left out.

It's kind of pathetic in my view.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:43 PM

28. I think the desperation is that the facts on the ground will have changed and the terrorists

destroyed before they get in the game.

Thanks for all your links. Always informative.

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Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 06:26 AM

29. That's the US, or rather parts of the US, Cameron is desperate about not being our little buddy.

There will be just no reason to deal with him if he can't deliver the goods.

The War Party is worried that Putin will succeed in Syria, and they should be.

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:29 PM

15. Report: Downing of Russian Warplane over Syria Starts Rift between Erdogan, Army

Iranian source, but ...

TEHRAN (FNA)- The crisis that started by Turkey's shooting down of the Russian Su-24 bomber in the Syrian airspace is leading to a standoff between President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the country's army, Turkish media reports said.

Arab media outlets quoted the Turkish-language daily, Sözcü, as reporting that Erdogan and the Turkish army's joint chief of staff are now at odds after the Turkish president in controversial remarks - that was contradicted later - claimed that Ankara did not know the warplane was Russian when targeting it.

"We would have acted differently if we had known that the fighter jet was Russian," Erdogan said.

The Turkish paper quoted an informed military source as saying that Erdogan had taken a "hasty" position and declared that the army had been unable to identify the nationality of the plane in official remarks, "and this complicated the problem".

"Had the politicians kept quiet, we could have resolved the problem very fast," the unnamed source told the Turkish daily, according to the Arab media.

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940908001473

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:31 PM

16. Erdogan’s retreat

From Pakistan ...

That the precariously assembled international coalition against Islamic State (IS) was fragile to begin with is an understatement but now it is in even hotter water due to the actions of one troublemaking head of state: Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. The shooting down of a Russian warplane by Turkey last Tuesday heated up relations between Russia and NATO member Turkey. There was much bickering back and forth with Turkey insisting that the plane was violating Turkish airspace and was given as many as ten warnings before it was shot down, killing one pilot. The pilot who survived insists no warning was issued. Reports say that the plane was in Turkish airspace, if at all, for only 17 seconds. Whatever the case, the whole incident has painted Erdogan as an agent provocateur. However, just two days after crying hoarse on how Russia needs to apologise for the ‘violation’ and how justified Turkey was in shooting down the plane, Erdogan now seems to have changed his tune, saying how “deeply saddened” he is that such an act occurred. What happened to all the bravado and muscle flexing? It seems the steps taken by Russian President Vladimir Putin in the immediate aftermath of Turkey’s deliberate provocation have tightened the screws on Turkey, which has been acting a lot like the neighbourhood bully, putting in jeopardy not just the Kurdish militias engaged in fighting IS across the border but also the entire coalition pieced together to defeat the terror group that is now becoming a global menace.

Russia has directed all Russian tourism to Turkey to be halted, causing a loss of millions of dollars. It has partially suspended visa-free travel between the two countries and the import of certain goods from Turkey has been slowed down. The Russian president is hitting Erdogan right where it hurts, in the pocket, and the results are showing with this latest ‘retreat’ from Ankara. Turkey’s actions may have quietly troubled its NATO partners too. Of course NATO must support its member state but it cannot be too happy whilst trying to keep the fragile emerging anti-IS coalition together in the face of the formidable task of ahead. Erdogan has become a thorn in the side of this coalition. Putin called Turkey a “backstabber” aligned with the terrorists. Erdogan is increasingly exhibiting autocratic tendencies at home, clamping down on opposition, human rights and free speech. Turkey, due to the actions of its head of state, is painting itself into a very unfortunate corner indeed. *

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/editorial/30-Nov-2015/erdogan-s-retreat

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:32 PM

18. Syria rebels 'negotiating Homs withdrawal'

Governor and activists say rebels will on Tuesday negotiate evacuation of last stronghold in city, leaving it to government forces

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/syrian-rebel-forces-negotiate-withdrawal-homs-879119132

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:47 PM

20. Are Kurds in Syrian Kurdistan Becoming Erdogan’s Worst Nightmare?

---

Edging Toward Civil Strife

Turkey is reportedly pulling troops and equipment including tanks toward the Syrian border while cracking down on internal dissent by Kurdish groups.

Turkish military helicopters reportedly shelled Kurdish areas on the Turkish side of the Syrian border, while the military declared curfews in other areas, according to Reuters.

The moves come after both tensions over Syria’s conflict and the murder of a prominent Kurdish activist, Tahir Elci, which the country’s pro-Kurdish HDP party called a “planned assassination.” Prior to the assassination, Elci called for the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) to be taken off Turkey’s “terrorist” list.

Turkey has also jailed journalists from the country’s opposition Cumhuriyet newspaper, which revealed Turkish arms shipments to Syrian rebels in May.

http://ekurd.net/syrian-kurdistan-erdogans-nightmare-2015-11-30

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:49 PM

21. Turkish Generals Arrested for Treason, Terrorism Charges

Ankara, Nov 30 (Prensa Latina) The Turkish Criminal Court today ordered the arrest of two generals and a retired colonelon charges of espionage and terrorism for their role in the interception of trucks carrying arms to Syria.

According to the Istanbul Second Criminal Court of Peace, Maj. Gen. İbrahim Aydın, Brig. Gen. Hamza Celepoğlu, and retired Col. Burhanettin Cihangiroğlu committed espionage when ordering the interception in 2014 of trucks carrying arms to Syria.

The trucks were escorted by the TurkeyâÖs National Intelligence Organization (MIT) and they were allegedly moving arms for armed groups in Syria, though the Turkish government insists in making clear that it was humanitarian aid for the Turkish community in that country.

The court also says that the generals tried to carry out a coup d' etat when exposing their alleged links with the Muslim clergyman Fethullah Gulen, accused of creating a terrorist organization, reveals the Hurriyet Daily News daily.

http://www.plenglish.com//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4393811&Itemid=1

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:54 PM

22. Syria conundrum: Russian bear roars as the West slides

---

In the days preceding the downing of a Russian bomber, Syrian troops were reported to have retaken large swathes of territory from IS, Al Qaeda, and other terrorist fighters. The Syrian Arab Army (SAA) was also reported to have begun to approach the Euphrates River east of Aleppo, which would effectively cut off IS from its supply lines leading out of Turkish territory.

In this context, Latakia province, which is located in Western Syria bordering Turkey and houses a significant Turkmen population, has been hit several times during the past few days. While for Erdogan, there are no IS militants in Latakia, for Russia it does have enough terrorist population and does function as a supply base for IS militants and therefore is needed to be bombed to dust.

For Erdogan, however, the crucial importance of these Turkmen lands is that he wants to convert them into long-cherished “no fly zones” to be used as a launch-base for terrorist attacks well inside Syria. While Turkey continues to harp on the mantra of “innocent deaths” in Turkmen lands, for Russia the thing that strategically matters most is to smash any possibility of a future 900 km-long ‘jihad highway’ between Aleppo and Grozny.

And that explains the Russian bombing of Latakia province. For Russia, the area known as Turkmen Mountain or heights – which Turks call Bayirbucak –north of Latakia province is a major target. That is where the notorious ‘jihad highway’ is located through which Ankara, side by side with the US, weaponizes various terrorist outfits.

http://atimes.com/2015/11/syria-conundrum-russian-bear-roars-as-the-west-slides/

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Response to bemildred (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:26 PM

30. Here's something interesting from Gareth Porter, October 19th...

The “Blame Russia” Line Deflects From U.S. Blunder

By Gareth Porter, October 19, 2015

http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/obama-won-t-admit-real-targets-russian-airstrikes-386489294


What the media is missing

The media, including the Washington Post and Associated Press, have reported the importance of the TOW missiles to the victory in Idlib.

What they never mention is that it was the al-Nusra front-led command that captured the province. And at the same time, they seek to deny that al-Nusra obtained the TOW missiles.

According to a report in the Washington Post, a proponent of the program, former U.S. ambassador Robert Ford, claims that the system prevented the missiles from “falling into extremist hands,” and that he was aware of only two TOW missiles having been obtained by al-Nusra.

However, the Washington Post had reported in March that al-Nusra publicly announced the seizure of the TOW missies that had been sent to a last major independent force in the area before Idlib was overrun.


It is easy to understand why the Obama administration is not interested in talking about the role of al-Nusra in the present Syrian political-military situation. According to Sly’s source, the covert operation to provide the TOW missiles to the Army of Conquest was aimed at putting “sufficient pressure on Assad’s forces to persuade him to compromise but not so much that his government would precipitously collapse and leave a dangerous power vacuum”.

Overall, the Obama administration strategy on Syria assumed a degree of control that is so obviously unrealistic that it was inherently risky to the point of recklessness.

That is also why no one in the administration or the major U.S. news media is discussing the reality that the Russian offensive is targeting the biggest jihadist threat to the Assad regime.


http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/obama-won-t-admit-real-targets-russian-airstrikes-386489294


---------Two Comments on the Porter's Article at MEE are an interesting read in contrast views -----------------

John Bass • a month ago

Obama was completely successful in removing the WMD weapons held by the Assad government. And now we have Russia, Assad, Iraq, and Iran all bound together to battle ISIS in a new ideological war that will go on for decades. And USA is NOT a part of it! And the main target of ISIS and similar terror groups are shifting their target for terror away from the USA and directing it toward Russia and Iran.
I'm sorry. But that looks like a complete win from every direction for the USA to me.
And yes, I do understand the anger of all neo-cons about the world having a significant war without the USA in the middle of it. How can we justify making more war glory movies like American Sniper without us in there doing the real killing "to keep us free"?

----------------

Stavros Hadjiyiannis reply to John Bass • a month ago

It's not about being in the war or not, and it's not about who ISIS hates the most.

What it really is about:

a) Competing pipeline projects. I can massively expand on this if you so wish. Putin's primary aim is to prevent a Qatar/KSA pipeline to Europe from being built. For obvious reason. Keep in mind that European gas production is now in terminal decline, hence need for imports will keep on increasing for many years on end.

b) The position of Hezbollah in Lebanon. Without Assad, Hezbollah becomes fair game for Israel. With Assad-Hezbollah, Iran has considerable leverage over Israel.

c) The destruction and break-up of both Syria and Iraq. See Yinon plan, and Brezhynski's doctrine of micro-states. US influence over Eurasia in general and the Middle East in particular goes down several notches if Syraq keep together, this is a common goal for Russia/Iran and China. For obvious reasons.

d) The perpetuation and enhancement of Iranian influence over the most strategic part of the Middle East, which is the Iran-Iraq-Syria corridor.

e) If Russia succeeds here, then they would have struck an astonishing and shattering blow to the US-NATO-GCC Empire.

The implications and ramifications of this war are nothing short of earth-shifting. Hence the agony in Western capitals.
---------------------

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Response to KoKo (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 01:02 PM

35. Both comments "make sense", and "seem relevant" in explaining why things are happening.

As I said to Jefferson a while back, the motives of the parties playing varies a lot, and many of them do not agree about what they are doing and why, so you don't want to get too attached to their "explanations".

And people can justify anything, if sufficiently motivated, and they do, so you have to factor that immense hypothesis generating capacity we all have in.

But I do consider that Obama and Putin play a little footise under the table now and then, and the motivations outlined there are part of the War Party's fears from Putin's war in Syria. As in past situations where facts on the ground don't go their way, they want it to stop, and their efforts are bent in that direction, but apparently very unsuccessfully this time, as Putin is winning his war so far, and Turkey is not winning the argument about the shootdown either.

Meanwhile the Pentagon very much wants to participate themselves, and hopefully show the Russians up. Not being part of this is very bad for future merketing prospects. Hence Carter's "special operators".

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 01:56 PM

23. Germany moots pact with Assad to fight 'Islamic State'

Germany's defense minister has raised the prospect of joining a temporary military alliance with the Syrian regime to fight "Islamic State." At the same time, she insists that President Bashar al-Assad must go.

There are bedfellows and there are bedfellows. The German government seems to be coming to the conclusion that the only way to fight the "Islamic State" (IS or ISIS) is to join an alliance with Bashar al-Assad, though at the same time maintaining the insistence that the Syrian president - who continues to barrel-bomb his own people - must go.

Defense Minister Ursula von der Leyen caused some confusion over the weekend when she wrote an article in Sunday's edition of the "Bild" newspaper declaring that "the lack of unity among opponents is also a reason for the strength of ISIS. ... The fight against ISIS must have the highest priority, for France as well as for the USA, China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, the Arab states and us."

Later the same day, she appeared on state TV network ZDF to clarify the point: "There will be no future with Assad, that's clear - that's why the transition phase is so important," she said. "But there are some parts of the army in Syria that you certainly can take, just as in the case of Iraq, where the training of local troops has happened successfully."

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-moots-pact-with-assad-to-fight-islamic-state/a-18885217

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:15 PM

24. Bombs away! UK to blitz ISIS in Syria 'within 48 HOURS' after anti-war Corbyn caves

The anti-war Labour leader had toyed with the idea of insisting his MPs tow his party line of opposing David Cameron's looming Commons proposals to bomb ISIS.

Despite making clear his own opposition, the hard-left leader is now set to allow his rebellious MPs and shadow cabinet members to vote with the Government.

With PM Mr Cameron out of the country on Thursday, a vote now seems certain to be held on Wednesday, according to Westminster insiders.

About 100 Labour MPs are ready to back bombing, with 132 following Mr Corbyn in voting "No", alongside the Scottish National Party's parliamentarians.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/478531/UK-bombing-ISIS-Syria-free-vote-Labour-Jeremy-Corbyn-David-Cameron

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Response to bemildred (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 03:24 PM

25. Geeze, what will be left, other than more rubble for the Syrians. n/t

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Response to bemildred (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:10 PM

34. I hope Corbyn is "playing his cards."

Not ready to give up on him....yet. After all he is supposed to be a Politician!

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:42 PM

26. Putin, Obama discuss Syria political settlement

PARIS (AP) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin says he and President Barack Obama have a shared understanding on how to move toward a political settlement in Syria, but added that incidents like the recent downing of a Russian warplane by a Turkish fighter jet stymie broader cooperation against extremism.

Putin and Obama had a half-hour meeting Monday on the sidelines of a climate summit near Paris, and the Russian leader told reporters they discussed efforts to compile a list of extremist groups and another one of members of legitimate political opposition.

Put said "we have an understanding how we should proceed if we talk about a political settlement. We need to work on a new (Syrian) constitution, new elections and the control over their outcome."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_PUTIN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-11-30-14-47-23

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Response to bemildred (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 30, 2015, 04:53 PM

27. The control over their outcome...very interesting. K&R

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Response to bemildred (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:08 PM

32. ...1 Interesting what is coming out of these meetings. Thanks....n/t,

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Response to Jefferson23 (Original post)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:51 PM

31. Ousting Assad is Counterproductive and Illegal, Says Congresswoman

Larry Wilkerson discusses a bill introduced by US Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard that seeks to redress the failed Syria strategy - December 1, 2015

As the civil war continues in Syria, solutions to end the conflict and the human suffering caused by it are preoccupying many of us. In that regard, Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii Tulsi Gabbard recently introduced a bill aimed at prohibiting arms and funding from being sent to groups seeking to overthrow Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. The bill prohibits the use of U.S. funds for the provision of assistance to Syrian opposition groups and individuals. Here is Congresswoman Tulsi in an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN, critiquing U.S. foreign policy in Syria.

WOLF BLITZER: Why do you say the U.S. effort to get rid of Bashar al-Assad's regime is counterproductive and illegal?

TULSI GABBARD (D-HI): Well, first of all, there's not been a vote in Congress to authorize the use of force, to authorize a war to overthrow a sovereign government. For as long as I've been there that hasn't happened. It didn't happen before I got there. So the American people haven't had a choice to speak their voice to approve or disapprove such a war. Therefore it's illegal. Secondly, it is counterproductive because right now U.S. arms are getting into the hands of our enemy. Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, these other groups, Islamic extremist groups who are our sworn enemy. These are groups who attacked us on 9/11 and who supposedly we're trying to defeat. Yet at the same time, supporting them with these arms to overthrow the Syrian government.

PERIES: Here to discuss the congresswoman's position is Col. Lawrence Wilkerson. He's the former chief of staff for the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, and currently and adjunct professor of government at the college of William and Mary. He's also a regular contributor to the Real News Network. Larry, thank you so much for joining us today.

LARRY WILKERSON: Thanks for having me, Sharmini.

PERIES: So Larry, this must take you back to the debate over the legality of the Iraq war. Is what the Congresswoman Tulsi arguing here, what the U.S. is doing in Syria, is it illegal?

WILKERSON: I think so. And I'm glad to hear this debate taking place, especially in a far more, in my view, formidable way than it did previously.

I happen to know, backtrack just for a moment, I happen to know the congresswoman fairly well from my almost hour-long conversation with her in her office about the Iran-EU-Germany Permanent 5 Iran deal, the JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. I found the congresswoman to be deliberate, well-versed in what we were talking about, in some ways more circumspect even than the party there to discuss it with her. And I found her to be very serious and very concentrated on her responsibility towards dealing with that agreement in the way she felt was best for the American people and ultimately for the world.

So I have great respect for her ability, not just because she's an Iraq war veteran, but also because I found in her what I did not find in clearly a majority of the rest of the Congress, of either Republican or Democratic ilk. And that is, I found a sane and sober voice. I found a voice interested in national security in a serious way, and a voice that was well-informed and itself spoke well about national security issues.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=15176

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Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:08 PM

33. ...! Good Read. n/t

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Response to KoKo (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 2, 2015, 01:24 PM

36. I find her voice and it's timing very interesting too. n/t

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