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Modern School

(794 posts)
Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:11 PM Jan 2013

Teachers' Lack of Rights at Work AND Home

In a stunning defeat for free speech and privacy rights a two-person appellate panel has upheld the firing of Jennifer O’Brien (see North Jersey.com). O’Brien, you may recall, was the Paterson elementary school teacher who was suspended for posting to her Facebook page that she felt like a warden for future criminals (see Teachers, Check Your Freedoms at the Door). The panel ruled that her behavior was not protected by the First Amendment and that her right to make those comments was “outweighed by the district’s interest in the efficient operation of its schools.”

Of course O’Brien’s behavior was stupid (or at least incredibly naïve) in this charged, litigious and anti-teacher climate. Teachers really cannot assume they have the same right to privacy as other professionals. A teacher is still expected to be a paragon of virtue, on and off campus (see Teachers, Madonna and Whore). In the past, it was not uncommon for teachers to be fired for getting pregnant, married or for having a boyfriend. Yet, as crazy as it sounds, they still are (see here for a recent example of a teacher being fired for getting pregnant out of wedlock). Teachers’ behavior at home and in the community (e.g., public intoxication, provocative attire, participation in street protests and activism) and on the internet are all open to monitoring and judgment by students, parents and administrators.

Yet regardless of how callous, careless or insensitive one feels O’Brien was, it is hard to see how firing her was in the best interests of society or children. If she was a terrible teacher and these comments were just the latest example of her cruelty toward children, then yes, build a case and go through the proper dismissal procedures. If, on the other hand, it was simply a tactless expression of frustration or exasperation with discipline problems in the classroom by an otherwise decent teacher, then get her some support or professional development. After all, teachers constantly complain privately about discipline problems to each other and to friends and family. Some no doubt even use the same pejorative comments she used, but have the sense to keep such comments off the social networking websites. This does not make them bad teachers or a threat to children.

In contrast, firing O’Brien for cause (thus denying her unemployment benefits) is deliberately cruel and callous, and completely unnecessary. But since she is an adult who betrayed the public trust, an erstwhile defender of children’s innocence who slandered their purity, a whore in Madonna’s clothing, it is entirely reasonable—indeed, desirable—to throw her to the wolves.

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Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
1. A cry for help in this anti-teacher climate
Fri Jan 18, 2013, 10:19 PM
Jan 2013

Teachers should have their say because their principal or school system does not back them up.

Only the other day a student was pulled out of my class and then led away in handcuffs by two policemen. This is a fact of life.

knitter4democracy

(14,350 posts)
2. Yup. I've had that happen a few times, too.
Fri Jan 18, 2013, 11:07 PM
Jan 2013

I've dealt with several POs and cops in my years of teaching. Seriously, people need to get over their weird views of education.

msongs

(67,394 posts)
3. telling your students they are future criminals? she needed to be fired and all this crap
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:56 AM
Jan 2013

about madonna/whore etc is just BS. and she chose to make that comment about her students on a forum accessible to 100 million people? hardly a privacy issue.

Modern School

(794 posts)
5. Poor Judgment, Tactless, Mean?--Yes. Deserving of Unemployment?--No
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:16 PM
Jan 2013

1. Obviously, she showed poor judgement, naivete and callousness. However, I think it was also accidental that the posting became public. If I remember correctly, she thought it was a private posting that was only supposed to be visible to specific friends

2. Do these things make her bad teacher? Not necessarily. Teachers constantly make similar comments in private to their colleagues and family. It's called venting. Teachers do not necessarily believe such comments. Rather, they are sometimes simply expressions of frustration. Most of us who have taught in a low income school or in one with poor disciplinary support from their administration has experienced periods of excessive disciplinary problems in the classroom and the frustration, anxiety and stress that go with it.

3. Should a person be stripped of their career and dumped into poverty for a mistake that did not directly harm anyone? Of course not. Get her some professional development to deal with the disciplinary problems, some tech support to train her to be more savvy about the internet, some mental health support to deal with her anger and anxieties.

Children are not more pure, innocent, worthy or deserving of rights and protections than adults by virtue of their age and status. Yet teachers ARE expected to be Madonnas, perfect and pure in every sense. We are not permitted the luxuries afforded other adults, like the right to get angry, yell, swear, pee when we need to, or to make mistakes. We are expected to accept low pay, demeaning treatment by politicians and the press, long and challenging working conditions, and to accept them with smiles, hugs and tenderness because we are seen more as protectors of the "innocents" than as workers trying to support our own families.

Let's also put this in perspective. The harm from firing the woman is clear and immediate. She is unlikely to be able to teach ever again. She is unemployed (probably without benefits) and thus forced into short-term (if not long-term) financial stress. It will be very difficult for her to get another job soon (let alone one with the security of teaching) due to the still high unemployment rates and the fact she had been fired for disciplinary reasons.

The harm to her students is hypothetical. We do not know that her comments reflected her actual perceptions of her students, let alone her actual physical treatment of them or her behavior in the classroom. And while Children's perceptions of their teachers are influenced by the gossip of peers and parents, they are far more influenced by their teachers' actual treatment of them

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
6. They can fire you "for cause" and you can still get UI
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:43 PM
Jan 2013

"For cause" is whatever a moronic administrator says it is. It is nothing but a meaningless phrase which is supposed to be distinguished from a non-renewal, but both are firings. It sounds like this was an administrative hearing. Those things are nothing but show trials anyway.

If it was an administrative hearing, she can go the civil route if she hasn't already.

BTW, it's only if you commit "gross misconduct" is when you are denied UI like theft, etc.

 

duffyduff

(3,251 posts)
7. BTW, wasn't O'Brien the one who was ratted out
Sat Jan 19, 2013, 12:50 PM
Jan 2013

(even though she immediately deleted those posts) by a colleague who was accused of criminal behavior with students?

Sounds like pure retaliation for not being part of the "in crowd."

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