HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Economy & Education » Education (Group) » Went to my 25th Back-to-s...

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:14 AM

Went to my 25th Back-to-school night last night and heard something I haven't come across before.

The English teacher uses "Sentence Writing Strategy" to improve writing. I think they mentioned KU. Any opinions on this? What exactly does it involve? Thanks.

26 replies, 4961 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Went to my 25th Back-to-school night last night and heard something I haven't come across before. (Original post)
FSogol Sep 2012 OP
elfin Sep 2012 #1
WCGreen Sep 2012 #2
AnneD Sep 2012 #16
struggle4progress Sep 2012 #17
Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #19
AnneD Sep 2012 #22
Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #23
AnneD Sep 2012 #24
HiPointDem Sep 2012 #25
elleng Sep 2012 #3
Smarmie Doofus Sep 2012 #4
SheilaT Sep 2012 #5
proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #8
SheilaT Sep 2012 #11
proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #14
Goblinmonger Sep 2012 #20
Smarmie Doofus Sep 2012 #12
HiPointDem Sep 2012 #18
BadgerKid Sep 2012 #6
proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #9
SheilaT Sep 2012 #15
knitter4democracy Sep 2012 #21
proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #7
FSogol Sep 2012 #10
proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #13
HiPointDem Sep 2012 #26

Response to FSogol (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:28 AM

1. Don't know it, but I think they should bring back diagramming

I always thought that was fun, even though figuring out where to put those pesky adverbs was a challenge for me. Believe it was in 7th grade way back when.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elfin (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:44 AM

2. I remember in Honors English back in 10th grade, we had to diagram a couple of...

Thoreau sentences from Walden.

I think one of the sentences had over 200 words.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WCGreen (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:33 AM

16. Ivanhoe....

by Sir Walter Scott holds the record I do believe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnneD (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 03:04 PM

17. I would have thought Faulknerís "Absalom, Absalom!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnneD (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:16 PM

19. I thought it was Finnigan's Wake

 

or perhaps it is the last chapter of Ulysses.

Though neither of those are probably grammatical sentences.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:36 PM

22. Guinness's world records lists it

As in James Joyce's Ulysses as containing the longest sentence (4391 words). I think they said it was the last chapter. Since I have never cared for Joyce, I plead willful ignorance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnneD (Reply #22)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:50 PM

23. I've read Ulysses several times.

 

Still don't feel like I am close to fully understanding it.

But the last chapter is basically Penelope's speech to Ulysses upon his return. And is all one sentence. It's a wonderful chapter.

I have never read all of Finnigan's Wake but I remember hearing that it was all one sentence. I must be remembering that incorrectly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:58 PM

24. Good on ya mate....

Feel free to use my turn at the novel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnneD (Reply #22)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:40 AM

25. i think it's molly bloom's soliloquy which ends 'yes i said yes i will yes'

 

on checking, yes it is -- but apparently has been surpassed.

Molly's soliloquy consists of eight enormous "sentences." The concluding period following the final words of her reverie is one of only two punctuation marks in the chapter, the periods at the end of the fourth and eighth "sentences." When written this episode contained the longest "sentence" in English literature, 4,391 words expressed by Molly Bloom (it was surpassed in 2001 by Jonathan Coe's The Rotters' Club).[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Bloom%27s_soliloquy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elfin (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:58 AM

3. Does help, but maybe only 20+ years later,

understanding of WTF is THIS about!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elfin (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 01:25 PM

4. +1. Simple, elegant , effective.

 

Alas... lost in the haze cast by various pedagogical fads pertaining to language instruction that fall in and out of vogue with depressing regularity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 01:55 PM

5. Personally, I think that sentence diagramming

 

should be an essential part of English. It really helps a person understand the language, the various parts of speech, and so on.

Start in about fifth or sixth grade with very simple sentences. Work up to fairly complex ones by ninth or tenth grade.

Oh, and along the way, teach the difference between lie and lay, its and it's, and so on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SheilaT (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:03 PM

8. Research hasn't proved diagramming effective.

That's why they stopped teaching it. Most educational practices are driven by research.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:56 PM

11. Well, gosh.

 

I wonder just how they researched it?

I know that I have a reasonably firm grasp on English grammar and usage, and had reasonably rigorous high school English classes, including a decent amount of sentence diagramming. For years now, I've been wanting to take a really good, tough, college level English grammar class, because there's a bunch of picky little stuff that I still need to learn.

Do you, Proud2B, by any chance know if any such class is taught at the college level?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SheilaT (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 01:45 AM

14. I have no idea.

I teach elementary school.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SheilaT (Reply #11)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:17 PM

20. When I got my B.S. back in 1988

 

the Modern Grammar class I had to take for my English minor was completely diagramming using Chomsky's transformational grammar.

LOVED the class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:11 PM

18. NCLB & RTTT = research driven too.

 

i think there's a benefit to understanding grammar -- at least there was for me. for one thing, you can talk about the language, which helps with foreign languages and helps with understanding why there's a problem when you write something non-grammatical.

i agree, it's kind of meta, but i think it pays off later.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 02:35 PM

6. Others have mentioned diagramming; are there studies showing effectiveness?

As far as the N=1 anecdote goes....thinking back to when I learned diagramming, I believe I didn't really get it. It was only several years later in learning a second language that it all came together for me. For all I know, my earlier exposure to diagramming set me up to do better later.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BadgerKid (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:06 PM

9. No. That's why it's not taught anymore.

The focus has moved over the years from understanding language structure to writing. Diagramming helps us understand structure but there isn't any research to support it helping us learn to write.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BadgerKid (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:33 AM

15. Foreign language teachers will complain

 

bitterly that their students essentially know nothing of grammar. Don't know what a verb is. Don't know what an adjective is. They find they have to teach essentials of English grammar alongside that of the other language.

I've taken Spanish, French, German, and Italian in recent years at an excellent community college in Kansas, and I can verify that what those teachers complain about is true. The only class in which it wasn't as much of a problem was the Italian class. But three quarters of that class were older adults, 50+, who'd learned English grammar back in high school. Keep in mind that I took the Italian a decade ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SheilaT (Reply #15)

Fri Sep 21, 2012, 07:39 PM

21. As an English and Spanish teacher, I concur.

I look at diagramming as just a visual way to represent sentence structure. I've seen research-based programs in which students use highlighters or various symbols--diagramming's easier, I think.

I teach grammar specifically and refuse to change because I'm going to get these kids in my Spanish classes and don't want to have to reteach it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:01 PM

7. I went to KU

They had a bunch of strategies they had developed for writing. They involved mnemonics and rubrics. They had also done several research studies on their strategies.

But that was 20 years ago. I don't know if they are still using them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 06:30 PM

10. Thanks, I'll have to email the teacher and ask for an explanation. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to FSogol (Original post)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 02:45 AM

26. seems to be quite a bit of material on the internet.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread