Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Is it a mistake to pay 5+ percent of the (Original Post) roody Jul 2012 OP
Going in? Annually? elleng Jul 2012 #1
just going in roody Jul 2012 #3
If you are talking about "A" shares.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #2
Thank you. I just wanted to roody Jul 2012 #4
"If you pay no fees at all and get crappy returns, what have you got?" lastlib Feb 2013 #15
I wouldn't do it. n/t OllieLotte Jul 2012 #5
Ostensibly, the 5% you're paying is for the broker's help. Common Sense Party Jul 2012 #6
Thanks. roody Jul 2012 #7
Absolutely correct. N/T A HERETIC I AM Jul 2012 #8
Yes ! Billy Patterson Aug 2012 #9
Care to back that assertion up with facts? A HERETIC I AM Aug 2012 #10
I think Billy went with Elvis and done left the building. Common Sense Party Aug 2012 #11
Yeah. Noticed that shortly after I posted. n/t A HERETIC I AM Aug 2012 #12
Yes--if you pay 5% up front.... lastlib Oct 2012 #13
Thanks. roody Oct 2012 #14

elleng

(130,727 posts)
1. Going in? Annually?
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 07:58 PM
Jul 2012

I pay 1.20% on Account Asset Value annually, of a managed investment account.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,360 posts)
2. If you are talking about "A" shares....
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 08:09 PM
Jul 2012

Then 5% is not unusual for an equity fund. Bond funds tend to be lower, around 3% or so. The more you buy however, the lower the front end fees.

There are many people, including many on this board who will say that buying a so-called "front loaded fund" is a mistake and that the only Mutual Funds one should buy are those with no fees to purchase and low fees to own. While this is all fine and good in theory, what really matters is performance. If you pay no fees at all and get crappy returns, what have you got?

Crappy returns.

John Bogle, the founder of The Vanguard Group, made his living and his company on the idea that low fees are inherently better. The funny thing is, the largest Equity Mutual Fund in the world is a front loaded fund and it's performance on almost every measurement beats the crap out of the best of a comparable Vanguard fund. If you compare apples to apples in this regard, look at the oldest Vanguard fund and compare it to a similarly aged Equity Fund from the top 20 list (Easily found on Google) and you will see that the Vanguard funds are not all that special.

It really doesn't matter if the fees are 5% or 50% if you are getting returns you are happy with.

Keep in mind that every Mutual Fund company out there that offers front loaded A shares also offers C class shares. These have no fees to buy but a small fee (Typically 1%) to sell if the shares are held for less than 1 year. They carry slightly higher ongoing expense charges than A shares. Your broker can do a calculation (And if I remember correctly, is REQUIRED to do so and provide this information) that will show the break even point in years of buying an C share as opposed to an A.

Absolutely avoid being talked into buying a "B" class of Mutual Fund. These also have no up front load but have a sliding scale of sales charges - called the CDSC (Contingent Deferred Sales Charge) which can start as high as 5 or even 7% all the way to zero after 5 or even 7 years. They are also the most expensive to own. Some Mutual Fund companies have done away with C shares entirely.

One last thing - You often get what you pay for. When you buy a no-load fund from Vanguard or Fidelity for example, you are going to get VERY LITTLE advice. This is by design. It's part of how they keep their expenses so low. If you want guidance, you are either going to have to pay for it or meet account minimums.

roody

(10,849 posts)
4. Thank you. I just wanted to
Fri Jul 13, 2012, 08:29 PM
Jul 2012

move some IRA money to something more socially conscious and less volatile. The employee of the company, my 'advisor,' suggested this.

lastlib

(23,152 posts)
15. "If you pay no fees at all and get crappy returns, what have you got?"
Thu Feb 7, 2013, 11:14 AM
Feb 2013

If you pay a 5% fee and get crappy returns, what have you got? Crappy returns AND five percent less money.

Paying that front-end fee is no guarantee of better returns, and anyone who tells you differently is full of crap. Why pay the money to get the advice a broker wants you to hear, when, with a modicum of effort, you can find the advice you NEED to hear, and keep more of your own money in the process. I realize that not everyone is financially astute, but it's not that hard to acquire the knowledge needed to make good decisions on your own.

Common Sense Party

(14,139 posts)
6. Ostensibly, the 5% you're paying is for the broker's help.
Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:35 AM
Jul 2012

If the broker is going to help you now and in the future--help you decide what mix of funds makes sense for you, help you make decisions about withdrawals and taxation and future asset allocation--then the 5% is a bargain. I'd much rather pay 5% now and avoid making a mistake that could cost me 10% or 20% or even 50% later.

However, if the broker is going to collect the 5% and you'll never see or hear from him again...

lastlib

(23,152 posts)
13. Yes--if you pay 5% up front....
Sun Oct 28, 2012, 01:29 PM
Oct 2012

...you have 5% less at the end. Period.

Do some research before you invest, find a good-quality no-load fund that meets your needs. Morningstar.com can help you screen funds based on the criteria you want to use.

A broker/advisor on commission is going to point you toward funds that will pay him to sell them. Unless he's fee-only, he's not helping you. For the most part, you can do everything for yourself that a broker would do for you, and save yourself a a chunk of $$, if you just do a little research. Coming to sites like this and asking knowledgeable people will help also.

roody

(10,849 posts)
14. Thanks.
Sun Oct 28, 2012, 04:23 PM
Oct 2012

The weirdest thing happened! I actually said yes to this kid just to be done with him (before I posted). The money never was moved and I never heard from him again. The co. is Ameriprise.

Latest Discussions»Culture Forums»Personal Finance and Investing»Is it a mistake to pay 5+...