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dkf

(37,305 posts)
Mon Jan 2, 2012, 04:42 PM Jan 2012

Guess Which Country Has Debt Of Nearly 1000% Of GDP

It's the UK, per this excellent chart from Morgan Stanley.




A few notes here:

This chart is looking at all kinds of debt, not just sovereign debt. The UK's staggering debt-to-GDP ratio is largely due to the size of its financial sector.
All financial sector debt is, to some extent, potentially government debt, since all governments end up having to rescue their financial sectors in the event of a crisis. That's what brought down Iceland and Ireland.
And yet, for reasons we explained here, the UK is still seen as a gold-standard among safe-havens.
By no measure does the US look  remarkable debt-wise -- even household debt/GDP doesn't look that bad. For that matter, Europe doesn't look that bad either. Their problem is not debt, but fiscal/monetary structure.


Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-04/markets/30473957_1_household-debt-uk-safe-haven#ixzz1iKsBTAua

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Guess Which Country Has Debt Of Nearly 1000% Of GDP (Original Post) dkf Jan 2012 OP
K&R. Thanks. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #1
No, back in the good old days those who had the most slaves and serfs were virtuous. Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #2
I guess you didn't work for Matthew and Son, LOL Art_from_Ark Jan 2012 #3

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
1. K&R. Thanks.
Tue Jan 3, 2012, 06:08 PM
Jan 2012

Having lived and worked in the UK, this does not surprise me.

Back then, for most of my co-workers, the most interesting part of the working day was the tea cart. A momentous event.

I felt a little out-of-place. That odd American who actually likes the job.

One of the problems with a society that has a tradition of strict class structures is that not working hard is associated with respect and privilege.

I'm afraid we are moving toward that kind of society. Working hard -- physically hard -- is probably the least profitable way to earn your living today.

Back when a large portion of our population farmed the land, working hard was a sign of virtue. Those who worked hardest had the best crops and the best lifestyles.

Next we will decide that working hard -- mentally hard -- is also for losers. The Wall Street crowd sticks an algorithm in a computer and just watches what happens.

I worked in the mail room of a branch of a brokerage in LA back in the 1980s. We notified people on the floor of the completion of their trades among other things. There was a lot of work to be done. You had to be very fast. Now computers do what I used to do.

Sad to see how the kinds of work we do and our attitudes toward our work has changed.

Our attitudes toward personal debt have a lot to do with our attitudes toward work. Farmers hated debt but had to take it on to buy land and seed and their equipment. They understood that they would have to repay their debt out of the profits from their produce and livestock. If they didn't turn a profit and couldn't pay their debts, they could be turned out of house and home -- and then what would they do? Personal debt was a serious matter then. Farmers did not hide behind corporations, so their business debt was personal to them. Think of Thomas Jefferson. He lost everything. That is what farmers faced back then.

Today, we sometimes view personal debt as just an inconvenience. The constant stream of credit care applications to our house has slowed since I sent a couple back -- empty, but it hasn't slowed nearly enough.

Government debt is the least worrisome to me. The UK is a good example of a country that thrives on debt. As long as the tea cart appears reliably at its scheduled time, why should the English care?

Again, our country was built on debt. We did not have the money to pay for our Revolution. But that did not stop the revolution. Government debt is a bit of an illusion. The French were forced to devalue their currency after WWII, maybe more than once if I remember correctly. Obviously, they recovered nicely only to run up more debt in recent years. As long as people in a country produce products that other people want to have and can buy, the people selling and buying the products will figure out some form "currency" to facilitate trade.

I predict that the Greek people may develop an underground barter market for certain things -- something outside the tax system. Something like I will trade the vegetables in my garden for your car repair services. That's what happens when governments impose draconian austerity measures. People just change to a different kind of currency. It's hard to tax or punish the exchange of favors.

Saving Hawaii

(441 posts)
2. No, back in the good old days those who had the most slaves and serfs were virtuous.
Thu Jan 5, 2012, 07:12 AM
Jan 2012

The ones with dirt on their hands and sweat on their brow were scum. Same as always.

"Back when a large portion of our population farmed the land, working hard was a sign of virtue. Those who worked hardest had the best crops and the best lifestyles."

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