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Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:15 PM

What About the Men? Why Our Gender System Sucks for Men, Too

If you are anything like us, you spent some time when you were younger playing with optical illusions: the vase that, if you looked at it differently, was two faces; the fish that were also birds; the old woman who was also a young lady.

If you were reading this in a book in a bookstore, and some malicious person had not moved it into the Local Birdwatching category, it would almost certainly be next to some other books about gender. (Yes, this is related.) Look at the other books, and you’d find they have one thing in common—they’re almost all about women. Women and work. Women and body image. Women and race. Women and sex. Women and feminism.

You’d think that only women have a gender.

For a long time, we’ve only been able to see half the illusion—we see the birds, but not the fish; the vases, but not the faces. We’ve noticed the thousands of ways, big and small, that our current gender system wounds women. Rarely, however, and often only as an afterthought does anyone remark on how the current gender system harms men.

http://www.alternet.org/story/156194/what_about_the_men_why_our_gender_system_sucks_for_men_too?akid=9046.225459.5UWsCt&rd=1&t=2

37 replies, 6034 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply What About the Men? Why Our Gender System Sucks for Men, Too (Original post)
Behind the Aegis Jul 2012 OP
Skittles Jul 2012 #1
Behind the Aegis Jul 2012 #2
eek MD Jul 2012 #3
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #9
Skittles Jul 2012 #11
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #13
trumad Jul 2012 #14
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #23
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #4
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #5
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #24
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #28
Upton Jul 2012 #6
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #7
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #22
4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #27
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #29
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #8
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #10
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #12
trumad Jul 2012 #15
Behind the Aegis Jul 2012 #16
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #17
Upton Jul 2012 #18
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #19
eek MD Jul 2012 #25
opiate69 Jul 2012 #21
opiate69 Jul 2012 #20
Upton Jul 2012 #26
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2012 #30
Upton Jul 2012 #31
opiate69 Jul 2012 #33
Major Nikon Jul 2012 #32
Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #35
Cayenne Jul 2012 #36
Mosby Jul 2012 #34
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2012 #37

Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 04:48 AM

1. look at Congress

look at the Presidency

oh wait

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 04:56 AM

2. Did you read the article?

Or are you simply replying to the title of the article?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)


Response to eek MD (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:00 PM

9. We have the government that women elect. Women are roughly 54-55% of all voters. n/t

 

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Response to eek MD (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 03:44 PM

11. PRIVILEGE

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Response to Skittles (Reply #11)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:04 PM

13. Do not come into this group for the sole purpose of picking fights with members.

You have been warned.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:40 PM

14. You have been Warned!

 

God what a bunch of Wussies.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:08 AM

23. Are you suggesting that there's some sort of gender test for candidates for office?

 

The elected officials we have were put in office mostly by the 54% of the electorate who are female.

But again; none of this is germane to the OP. The article in the OP is an interesting one, and it'd be good to discuss some of the ideas in it, beyond just the title.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:02 AM

4. Then look at their bank accounts (n/m)

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:26 AM

5. Men are disproportionately represented at the top echelons true, however

 

they are also disproportionately represented at the bottom echelons also.

Where are the women garbage collectors, construction workers, fishermen (one of the most dangerous jobs in the country), loggers (also up there), sewage workers, coal miners, and line repairmen?

Also why with this great privilege is jail almost exclusively a male domain and the vast majority of the homeless are male?



Women may not rise up as high as some men, but they also don't tend to sink as low either.

Feminists get furious when men are too successful but they have little problem when we are too unsuccessful.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 12:13 AM

24. Yup. The glass cellar. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #24)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 09:44 AM

28. Which means anyone who tries to elevate women to the level of successful men

 

but does nothing about the unsuccessful men is trying to make women superior to men, not equal.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:39 AM

6. Look at my state of Washington..

Governor Christine Gregoire

Senator Patty Murray

Senator Maria Cantwell

Heck, even my Republican rep is female..Jaime Herrera Beutler

This must prove the "Patriarchy" is alive and well in Washington state and women are being kept down.........

oh wait.

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Response to Upton (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

7. I vote for equal representation in jails

 

either let a bunch of men go or arrest a lot of women to eliminate the gender imbalance caused by the . . er . . um patriarchy.

Likewise thousands of women need to be kicked out of their homes so we can get the homeless population to a roughly 50/50 mix.

Oh and suicide hotlines should stop taking calls from girls/women until suicides are roughly on par.

Equality shouldn't mean taking the good and leaving the bad.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:06 PM

22. The imbalance in jails I'd like addressed involves violent criminals v. non-violent drug offenders.

When we let murderers out to make room for pot smokers, we have a problem, I don't care what gender they are.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 09:35 AM

27. True but are that that many more male pot smokers

 

to create this imbalance?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 09:52 AM

29. When a man and a woman rob a bank.

 

The news talks about "the bank robber and his accomplice"

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:31 AM

8. My governor and both senators are women.

 

But that's a complete non sequitur, it has nothing to do with the article.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:01 PM

10. Except for the belief that fixing it should be outsourced to feminists, this is a great article.

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:02 PM

12. Im of the old "how do you get the goose out of the bottle without breaking it" Zen school.

The answer is, you dont. The goose gets itself out.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:41 PM

15. Another whiny ass thread in the Boys group.

 

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Response to trumad (Reply #15)


Response to trumad (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:54 PM

17. Won't be your problem anymore, pal.

Robble Robble Robble.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 08:59 PM

18. He's whining in Meta now..

good block Warren, but I have a sneaking suspicion that's exactly what he wanted.

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Response to Upton (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:01 PM

19. 'course it is. Don't care.

There's no group that would put up with that sort of thing. None.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #19)


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:53 PM

21. "He had a lot to say... He had a lot of nothing to say, we'll miss him"

 

http://m.#/watch?v=7E_rGd4ofcA

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Response to trumad (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 09:50 PM

20. And another complete waste of bandwidth from trumad...

 

Never have I encounteted someone so impressed with themself, yet with so little to be impressed with.

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #20)


Response to opiate69 (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 10:53 AM

30. Amazingly, these attacks were allowed to stand via jury in a safe haven....

....yet I was banned from the Meta thread because I called him what he's proud to admit he is.

Oh well.

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Response to opiate69 (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:27 PM

31. I have to give you credit..

you have that particular poster down..

"Never have I encountered someone so impressed with themself, yet with so little to be impressed with."

I've been thinking exactly the same thing for years..

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Response to Upton (Reply #31)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:37 PM

33. Yep yep.. I used to watch the sports wars between the two of you...

 

you always handled him pretty well... in the face of the most juvenile shit being thrown at you. Cheers

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 01:28 PM

32. Here's why the entire 'gender privelege' argument is flawed to begin with

The problem I have with some feminists who make gender privilege arguments is inevitably the only thing they want to talk about is equal outcome rather than equal opportunity. I'm a firm believer in equal opportunity. In fact, I'm quite passionate about the subject. I don't believe in equal outcome. The radical feminist argument regarding equal outcome is that the only difference between men and women is the plumbing. So all we have to do is completely reorder western society, make all gender roles neutral, and magically we will have equal outcome. That's why they only want to talk about outcome, rather than opportunity. To them, there is no difference. It's important to remember that this argument enjoys very little credibility outside the womens study departments of a few universities. As such I don't see much point in entertaining arguments that are built on that foundation.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:15 PM

35. I also question the credibility of anyone who CLAIMS to want to challenge rigid old stereotypes

who reflexively pals up with the likes of Ed Meese and Judith Reisman and Donald "He Restoreth Me" Hilton in their "put some clothes on and stop fucking, young lady!" agenda.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 04:56 PM

36. Title IX applied to STEM schools

Schools for at least the last two decades have unsuccessfully tried to increase female STEMS. Failing that the feminists want to use Title IX to cut down the number of male STEMS to match the overall university makeup which is typically 60% female. The economy will be devastated by the lack of STEMS entering the workforce. That's male privilege I suppose. Somehow the lack of male nurses and educators is not a crisis though.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:00 PM

34. Interesting read

I had not heard of Ozy's law before, seems like a very robust concept.

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Response to Mosby (Reply #34)

Thu Jul 19, 2012, 10:00 AM

37. Yes, it's very insightful. The best takeaway of the article. nt

 

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