HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Gender & Orientation » Men's Group (Group) » Proposing marriage is now...

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:08 PM

Proposing marriage is now sexist

But only if the man does it. Kinda like holding doors open I suppose. Amazing the stuff you learn on DU.

Although actually it sounds more like the radical feminism of the 70's and 80's that promoted the idea that marriage itself was all about ownership, which was somewhat easier to understand. I do think "traditional" marriage has outlived its usefulness and the government should get out of that business.

21 replies, 5104 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply Proposing marriage is now sexist (Original post)
Major Nikon Dec 2014 OP
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2014 #1
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #3
Eleanors38 Oct 2015 #21
Veilex Dec 2014 #2
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #4
Veilex Dec 2014 #5
Name removed Dec 2014 #18
Doctor_J Dec 2014 #6
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #7
Behind the Aegis Dec 2014 #8
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #9
Behind the Aegis Dec 2014 #10
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #11
Doctor_J Dec 2014 #12
Behind the Aegis Dec 2014 #13
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #14
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #16
Doctor_J Dec 2014 #17
Adcul1 Jul 2015 #19
Major Nikon Aug 2015 #20
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #15

Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:41 PM

1. I posted a poll sometime ago about...

...the government getting out of the business of sanctioning that, who and how many we choose as partners. Most folks that voted were against eliminating government recognized unions. I kind of favor having the government kicked out of all that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:54 PM

3. Tradition is a strong influence on most people

I don't think it's very progressive to have the government promoting tradition for no other reason. If someone wants a sanctioned marriage, they can go to a priest, a rabbi, or a witch doctor if they so desire. If someone wants a marriage contract, they can write their own out with whatever terms they want. Binding arbitration is even available commercially if there's a dispute. No government involvement is required.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 13, 2015, 03:36 PM

21. The gov. getting out of the marriage-sanctifying biz was a proposal for compromise...

 

on LGBTQ marriage debate. One which would have established only the equivalent rights of traditional marriage (wills, acting attorney, ownership, etc.), leaving the "Holiness" up to religious institutions, the Flying Speghetti Monster, Albert the Alligator, or no one in particular. But the far right, normally so loathing of government Anything, would have none of that. It wanted gubmint sanction or nothing. It got the latter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:52 PM

2. There's been a serious fight for a while now to redefine various terms...

 

Its nothing we're not already used to.... the GOP and Dems (mostly the GOP) have been doing this for ages.

There is a concerted effort to paint some actions, such as your example of marriage, as being sexist. I do agree with you in that I too think this is largely due to radical feminism... much in the same way that radical feminism would paint all men as rapists.

Feminism has picked up the notion that in order for women to achieve equal rights, men must be torn down. I think a lot of radical feminism emanates from and focuses almost exclusively on that idea.

The feminism I advocate, and think is much healthier, is one where we all lift women up. Help support and empower them.
It is exponentially harder for sexism to exist around women who have been empowered. The more strong/empowered women there are, the harder it is for it to exist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Veilex (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:58 PM

4. One doesn't even need to advocate for feminism, just gender parity

The true path to equality is treating everyone as equals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:16 PM

5. Agreed!

 

I'm fairly annoyed with people trying to label me as a feminist because I support that gender parity.
I'm not a feminist, because I choose not to be associated with radical feminism. Instead, I'm an Egalitarian. I support everyone's rights.
I believe in fairness for all...not just a select group.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Veilex (Reply #5)


Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:04 AM

6. I weighed in on that misplaced HoF, er, thing

 

I wonder what the jury results will be when it's inevitably alerted. If these are the people with whom we vote, our future world seem to be pretty dicey.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:17 AM

7. I'm not sure those who promote these ideas are doing their cause any good

Because while it may be true that at one time marriage consisted of hitting your prospective mate over the head with a club and dragging her back to your cave, whatever traditional vestiges that remain aren't necessarily sexist. If one does want to make the argument that the traditional marriage proposal is an example of benevolent sexism, then it seems an even better example would be alimony or perhaps even the entire institution of marriage as we know it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which gender stands to loose the most privilege if those traditions are dismantled.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:32 AM

8. There was no choice in my recent marriage (I got married 11/17).

Given we are both dudes, a man had to do it. It went something like this...

me: Now, that it is legal, think we should do it?
husband to be: well, it makes sense, especially if we do it before the end of the year and the benefits fair is coming up for my job.
me: OK, let me make some calls.
HTB: sound good.
me: hey wait? are we officially planning to get married?
HTB: sounds like it. I am cool if you are.
me: I'll start calling tomorrow.
HTB: good! Oh, did you feed the birds today?

ETA: Sorry for the sugary proposal!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:37 AM

9. Which begs the question

Which one of you was the victim of sexism and which was the perpetrator?

and...

Won't someone please think of the birds?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:44 AM

10. Yes, it does make things more complicated.

When many of these discussions come up, GL (sometimes B and T) are left out of the equation. Sometimes, it is a blessing in disguise, other times it is just another example of heterosexism. It was awhile ago (early 90's, I think) and there was an article about "sexism" in gay male coupling based on sexual proclivities. It was one of the most stupid things I had EVER seen. It was written by a straight woman, and it was so disgustingly homophobic, I would have rather read something from Fred Phelps, because at least he was honest in his bigotry. When I finally purge my files from college (so, some time in the next 20 years), I'll see if I still have the photocopy of the article.

Yes, we need to do better by our birds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:52 AM

11. I think there's a clear diversity benefit that gay marriage offers

Because out of sheer necessity it breaks down the barriers of gender expectations. The other side of that coin is that if someone wants to adhere to the traditional customs of getting down on one knee and proposing, trading rings, or whatever they should be free to do that as well regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 01:10 PM

12. Despite your underwhelming experience, I believe that many same sex engagements also involve

 

champagne and bended knee and rings, which sort of contradicts the narrative that such a "ceremony" is oppressive and misogynistic. But I am looking from a distance at that situation, so could be way off.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 01:20 PM

13. Oh yeah, that's true, as well.

Last year, on Modern Family the two main gay characters were both trying to have surprise proposals, and ended up proposing over a flat tire. It is true, our proposals come in many forms from elaborate to mundane. I don't see how someone could see the process as "oppressive" at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 04:25 PM

14. Some look very hard to find oppression

In the ATA group, someone accused DU of bigotry due to the demographics of the admins.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:43 PM

16. That's awesome.

 

I sometimes envy my same sex friends unambiguous relationships.
"You wanna get married?"
"Yeah, I suppose. The car will be paid off in January. How about March?"
"Okay. What do you want for dinner?"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 19, 2014, 10:51 AM

17. btw, bta. which of you clubbed the other over the head and dragged the other

 

back to the cave? Apparently marriage proposals are an extension of that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:49 PM

19. We tied the knot last Friday.

I was hoping to put my new husband on my insurance plan. I work at Werner Enterprises. They refused, we are scrambling now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adcul1 (Reply #19)

Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:27 PM

20. Best wishes on your new marriage

Sucks that the company you work for hasn't caught up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:39 PM

15. Engagement rings: symbol of the patriarchy.

 

If they think that's a good tactic to rekindle popular support for feminism... good luck with that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread