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flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 01:11 AM Jul 2012

Oswaldo Paya, prominent Cuban dissident, killed in car accident in Cuba

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/22/2907342/oswaldo-paya-well-known-cuban.html#disqus_thread

** The right wing is going nuts saying that he was killed by the government which is doubtful, it was in an area with very poor roads

Oswaldo Payá Sardiñas , one of the most respected names in the Cuban dissident movement and a tireless crusader for civil society, was killed in a car crash Sunday afternoon in eastern Cuba.

Rosa María Payá, his daughter, told CNN en Español that Payá was traveling near Bayamo, the capital city of Granma province, with a fellow dissident, Harold Cepero, when their car was struck by another vehicle. “There was a car trying to take them off the road, crashing into them at every moment. So we think it’s not an accident,’’ she told CNN en Español. “They wanted to do harm and they ended up killing my father.”

The Cuban Foreign Ministry’s confirmed the death at 1:50 p.m. local time and said the crash occurred in La Gavina, about 14 miles from Bayamo.

But a foreign ministry spokesman told the Spanish news agency EFE that Payá’s rented car “lost control and smashed against a tree, according to eyewitnesses.’’ The spokesman said Cepero, a native of Ciego de Avila, was also killed.

This is for nostagia purposes (from the comments):


MiamiMafia__Buster

Don't waste your time with that inbred moron.
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Yesterday 08:16 PM
in reply to medcom
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medcom



Thank you and your "guagua" snow white.
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Yesterday 10:57 PM
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notaslave

And you are a commie
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13 minutes ago
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medcom

Well, I figured I would let you know "beforehand" that I am an American. But that was my mistake. I should have also added "free capitalist!" Before you start with the "commie" fingerpointing... which is pathetic since you make the same argument against anybody who does not agree with you.
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Yesterday 08:10 PM
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HumbertoCapiro

medcom! SO YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A PROBLEM IF THE CASTROFASCISTS "GOVERNMENT" OF "LA CHINA" RAUL & "THE MUMMY" FIDEL ARE SUBJECT TO AN INVESTIGATION BY AN INTERNATIONAL INDEPENDENT GROUP OF INVESTIGATORS?
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Yesterday 08:17 PM
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MiamiMafia__Buster

Get lost, freak!
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Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/22/2907342/oswaldo-paya-well-known-cuban.html#storylink=cpy
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
1. We'll have to wait and see what the witnesses say when they recover.
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 01:38 AM
Jul 2012

I don't take anything the Cuban government has to say at face value. Not that I believe one inch of what the Miami mafia has to say.

But put it this way, I think there is more credence to Paya being murdered since he posed a threat to the power holders in a transitioning Cuba.

Remember Cienfuegos.

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
2. No I disagree. He's not much of a threat and is Anti-Embargo. The Cuban government would not
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 01:43 AM
Jul 2012

(not) edit --- not go after and kill him and possibly the two prominent young conservative European politicians he traveled with -- apparently in an effort to push the Cholera is spreading in Cuba meme. The real question is what was he doing with those right wing people. No, it doesn't look like a plot much. It would take Tom Cruise to land his car up against a tree exactly killing him but not his companions. It's not the 1980s either (Cienfuegos). The Europeans were fine, probably wore their seatbelts - not customary for Cubans.

The car must have marks if it was sideswiped, that at a minimum. Then, how to prove who did it.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
3. All legit Cuban dissidants are anti-embargo. They're also pro-democracy.
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 01:55 AM
Jul 2012

The powers that be in Cuba reject that they are anti-democratic, even when speakers like Eliécer Ávila point out the undemocratic aspects of the one party system.

Paya and the democratic movement in Cuba has an opportunity to grow as the country enables its privatization efforts.

Whatever the case the pro-Castro people are cheering tonight.

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
4. I disagree again. This is NOT good for pro-Cuba people or pro-Fidel people
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 02:01 AM
Jul 2012

It's more grist for the right wing mill and the republicans in Florida.

They all love to unite around this kind of conspiracy. Ros-Lehtinin is already saying it was homicide by car not waiting to see if there is forensic or other evidence, her excuse of course you can't believe them. blah blah

He was NOT A THREAT. His Varela project went no where though it had it's merits, he wasn't up to much lately.

Even though he was trying to be one by going into that area that's sensitive to report possibly true possibly false stories about Cholera spreading

Why? Do you know the routine of trying to wreck Cuba's economy? How about tourism, how about their credibility for being incredibly competent with disease and disaster.

You are not paying attention..

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
5. It's almost always good for a group when a dissidant is taken out.
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 03:17 AM
Jul 2012

I can't see any downsides because it throws a dent into the democracy project in Cuba. All you have to now do is replace Paya with a far right winger who wants to do stupid shit (like repatriate old property owners, etc) and it marginalizes the movement.

As I said, I'll wait for the witness reports once they're out of Cuba. If the reports say that it was just an accident on bad roads, then I will believe them. But I bet you dollars to donuts that if the reports say that they were driven off the road, chased, etc, you will say that they're right wing witnesses and can't be trusted.

BTW, if you really think the Varela Project went no where you should be reminded that one of its major goals was privatization. Cuba followed suit less than a decade later.

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
6. Thanks for taking a swipe at me for your own satisfaction
Mon Jul 23, 2012, 11:02 AM
Jul 2012

Nice superior tone there as you imply I am a Castro apologist and would deny the facts of a case. I'm pointing out that the right wing is taking a situation where there was a certain outcome and pretending all that could be planned -- on a poor road - and hitting a certain tree that would kill a certain dissident. It doesn't add up.

What does add up is that the right is making accusations against the Cuba government as usual and we should not get caught up in their cause because it is BS

You can see here how little threat he was in these cables sent by US diplomats in Cuba:

>>Paya and other long-time opposition figures were described disparagingly in leaked, confidential U.S. diplomatic cables as old, riven by petty rivalries and out of touch with the island's youth.

"They have little contact with younger Cubans and, to the extent they have a message that is getting out, it does not appeal to that segment of society," said one cable from 2009, which was made available by WikiLeaks the following year.

Cuba's government routinely dismisses opponents as American stooges bankrolled by Washington to undermine the revolution. The revelation that U.S. diplomats privately held so low a regard for the opposition was a major embarrassment for many.<<

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
7. You said I "wasn't paying attention" while being ignorant of the Varela Project's...
Tue Jul 24, 2012, 01:15 AM
Jul 2012

...privatization goals which the Cuban state has compromised on in recent years.

Of course I'm going to doubt that you'd believe what the eye witnesses say once they've recovered.

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