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Mon May 23, 2016, 09:07 AM

NYT op-ed: Do Sanders Supporters Favor His Policies?

.....More detailed evidence casts further doubt on the notion that support for Mr. Sanders reflects a shift to the left in the policy preferences of Democrats. In a survey conducted for the American National Election Studies in late January, supporters of Mr. Sanders were more pessimistic than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters about “opportunity in America today for the average person to get ahead” and more likely to say that economic inequality had increased.

However, they were less likely than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters to favor concrete policies that Mr. Sanders has offered as remedies for these ills, including a higher minimum wage, increasing government spending on health care and an expansion of government services financed by higher taxes. It is quite a stretch to view these people as the vanguard of a new, social-democratic-trending Democratic Party.

Mr. Sanders has drawn enthusiastic support from young people, a common pattern for outsider candidates. But here, too, the impression of ideological commitment is mostly illusory. While young Democrats in the January survey were more likely than those over age 35 to call themselves liberals, their ideological self-designations seem to have been much more lightly held, varying significantly when they were reinterviewed.
...
For many of them, liberal ideology seems to have been a short-term byproduct of enthusiasm for Mr. Sanders rather than a stable political conviction.

Perhaps for that reason, the generational difference in ideology seems not to have translated into more liberal positions on concrete policy issues — even on the specific issues championed by Mr. Sanders. For example, young Democrats were less likely than older Democrats to support increased government funding of health care, substantially less likely to favor a higher minimum wage and less likely to support expanding government services. Their distinctive liberalism is mostly a matter of adopting campaign labels, not policy preferences........

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/opinion/campaign-stops/do-sanders-supporters-favor-his-policies.html?_r=0


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Reply NYT op-ed: Do Sanders Supporters Favor His Policies? (Original post)
Rose Siding May 2016 OP
stopbush May 2016 #1
Rose Siding May 2016 #2
Walk away May 2016 #3
Rose Siding May 2016 #6
yallerdawg May 2016 #4
Her Sister May 2016 #5
BootinUp May 2016 #13
still_one May 2016 #7
Haveadream May 2016 #8
Rose Siding May 2016 #11
Haveadream May 2016 #15
fleabiscuit May 2016 #9
pandr32 May 2016 #10
fleabiscuit May 2016 #12
BootinUp May 2016 #14
pandr32 May 2016 #17
SharonClark May 2016 #16
FrenchieCat May 2016 #18

Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:34 AM

1. And there you have it. Proof that the Sanders campaign is personality driven,

not policy driven.

There is no revolution. There is no swing to the left. What there is is a cult of personality that young people find attractive, what with free arena events and the desire to fit in with the crowd and say "I was there."

I give the media 6 years before they catch up with what the actual driving factors were behind the Sanders campaign.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #1)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:39 AM

2. All of us like to feel as though we're part of something bigger than ourselves.

Something important. Sanders capitalized on that cruelly, without seeming to give a thought to what comes next.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:43 AM

3. This article makes Sander's supporters look like Uninformed Sheep who are voting against their own..

best interest. Wow!!!

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Response to Walk away (Reply #3)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:52 AM

6. I almost hope the survey is flawed

It's far from representative but the young people I know do favor liberal policy like min wage increases and other liberal policy.

I wonder if the survey was just able to gauge the strength, the depth, of support. I know Hillary people *do* (generally) strongly support the policies mentioned in the article.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:50 AM

4. The 'folk theory' of democracy.

From OP link.

Bernie fans and pundits are telling us it's a political revolution?

Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government
Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels

...the familiar ideal of thoughtful citizens steering the ship of state from the voting booth is fundamentally misguided. They demonstrate that voters—even those who are well informed and politically engaged—mostly choose parties and candidates on the basis of social identities and partisan loyalties, not political issues. They also show that voters adjust their policy views and even their perceptions of basic matters of fact to match those loyalties.

...democratic theory needs to be founded on identity groups and political parties, not on the preferences of individual voters.

And Hillary leads all candidates in 'popular vote' - social identity and partisan loyalty? Sure looks like it!

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:51 AM

5. So lot of his supporters are not really the leftest Left!

 

Just Democratic Party haters!

Purity test? yeah! right!

However, they were less likely than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters to favor concrete policies that Mr. Sanders has offered as remedies for these ills, including a higher minimum wage, increasing government spending on health care and an expansion of government services financed by higher taxes. It is quite a stretch to view these people as the vanguard of a new, social-democratic-trending Democratic Party.



Mr. Sanders has drawn enthusiastic support from young people, a common pattern for outsider candidates. But here, too, the impression of ideological commitment is mostly illusory. While young Democrats in the January survey were more likely than those over age 35 to call themselves liberals, their ideological self-designations seem to have been much more lightly held, varying significantly when they were reinterviewed.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/opinion/campaign-stops/do-sanders-supporters-favor-his-policies.html?_r=0

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Response to Her Sister (Reply #5)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:55 AM

13. Of course not.

Too many people still suffering from confusion from all the propaganda.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:53 AM

7. Sanders is an empty suit

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 09:59 AM

8. Thank you for sharing this insightful article

It examines the trend we have been seeing from too many Bernie supporters: a cult of personality rather than policy.



For many of them, liberal ideology seems to have been a short-term byproduct of enthusiasm for Mr. Sanders rather than a stable political conviction.


One of the ironies of the election is that while Bernie's theme of corruption and inequity created by the 1% is acknowledged by all, the relentless corruption and inequity by many people in the 99% towards their fellow citizens is only acknowledged by some. It might even be characterized as a struggle between the Bernie supporters who "have some and want more" and the many Hillary supporters who simply "have not".

It is this phenomenon that allows some to switch to Trump if Bernie does not win. I wish I could say I'm surprised but I am not. Unfortunately, this block of voters is the same as they have ever been and are revealing themselves to be basing their votes on values that are less than noble. We can only hope that the Obama coalition has a large enough majority to stop them.

Thank you for posting a great analysis of the mindset of those supporters.

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Response to Haveadream (Reply #8)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:44 AM

11. The voting block may be more amorphous, more nuanced, than this survey reveals

I've seen lots of indications that young people are becoming more liberal. The confusion on economic policy doesn't surprise me. They hear Bernie preach anger and demands without any real strategy. That noise from him overrides everything!

I believe that, as a generation, they are genuinely more liberal. However, it's a confounding consequence that libs who've aged out of the millennial assignation did such a kick ass job of teaching them to assume social equality, they seem to consider it a battle already won. It's not.

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Response to Rose Siding (Reply #11)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:11 PM

15. Exactly

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 03:47 PM - Edit history (1)

There is something very "second wave" about Bernie's entire campaign which really isn't surprising since he has not moved out of his privileged liberal sanctuary since the 60s. That is why he appeals to those in the 99% who simply have no real idea how the other "half" lives.

As you pointed out, many millennials who sincerely consider themselves to be progressive actually believe we are in a largely post racist, post sexist society. Evidence of that assumption is seen on DU every day. One example is the repeated defense of the theory that all boats rise together. Socialism of the kind seen in homogeneous countries like Denmark will not be effective here without reparative programs that compensate for the systemic discrimination women and minorities face. That is one of the essential failures in Sander's plan and one which many of his supporters still do not understand.

Much of the inequality faced by women and minorities, both social and economic, has little to do with Wall St. Bernie's focus is on a very white, male, top down model of inequity. While that dynamic also adversely impacts women and minorities, there are the even more pervasive challenges of lateral discrimination, from those who would otherwise be their peers, that have not been taken into account. The color and gender "blindness" of his policies and his supporters hurts many in the 99% whose challenges remain invisible.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:27 AM

9. And I'm still raw for the hide pointing out there is really no difference...

between the two camps supporters.

"...Yet commentators who have been ready and willing to attribute Donald Trump’s success to anger, authoritarianism, or racism rather than policy issues have taken little note of the extent to which Mr. Sanders’s support is concentrated not among liberal ideologues but among disaffected white men...."

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:37 AM

10. Sanders is a fad--not a movement

This line says it all: "For many of them, liberal ideology seems to have been a short-term byproduct of enthusiasm for Mr. Sanders rather than a stable political conviction."

Fads fade (bern-out)--becoming passé. No one who follows trends wants to be seen continuing an outmoded fad.

Bernie will wonder where everyone went.

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Response to pandr32 (Reply #10)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:54 AM

12. That article has actually boosted my moral quite a bit. eom

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #12)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:56 AM

14. lol nt

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Response to fleabiscuit (Reply #12)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:33 PM

17. It should!

We have been fed a sack of baloney by the media all along. But--it has been mentioned on occasion that Sanders' supporters do not translate into GE voters. Those big rallies are less about progressive policy than they are about the power and allure of a peer group. Bernie has been a craze and his massive rallies are "be-ins", "happenings", or political "raves."
Bernie will be a crusty old crank again really soon--resistant to change, as always, with his "my way or the highway" attitude, and resubmitting all the same dead-in-the-water proposals he always does in Congress. So much for progress.
He should retire, but then Jane would probably get tired of hearing his stump speech day in and day out--he probably mutters it in his sleep. If you asked him how he was feeling any particular day he would probably give his usual speech as his reply--he is a few splinters short of a board.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:25 PM

16. Interesting article and hard to make generalizations from

This seems accurate:
"In a survey conducted for the American National Election Studies in late January, supporters of Mr. Sanders were more pessimistic than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters about “opportunity in America today for the average person to get ahead” and more likely to say that economic inequality had increased."

This doesn't among the Sanders supporters I know:
"However, they were less likely than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters to favor concrete policies that Mr. Sanders has offered as remedies for these ills, including a higher minimum wage, increasing government spending on health care and an expansion of government services financed by higher taxes."

I'm baffled.

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Response to Rose Siding (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 01:26 PM

18. Well yeah....

"LESS LIKELY than Mrs. Clinton’s supporters to favor concrete policies that Mr. Sanders has offered as remedies for these ills, including .....Increasing government spending on health care"

When you're on your parents' health care coverage, you ain't paying for your own health care, so you wouldn't necessarily care about increasing spending in that area.......cause you personally aren't paying anything to begin with....you parents are via their corporate jobs.

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