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Tue Oct 29, 2019, 07:32 PM

If I can be so rude to ask, how are you planning to vote?

12th of December folks for a general election. It is all up for grabs, hey. My seat is held by a New Labour MP who decided today to abstain from voting on the 3rd sitting. I really want her team to knock on my door to explain why the Lib Dems have my vote. Apart from their revoke stance, with had me at hello, the more I watch Jo Swinson in the house, the more I rate her. And the fact that my MP is running scared (I think she should be), it is not her fault, she is part of the Corbyn party…. But it means I can not vote for her and she obviously has no confidence in her ability to win. Why vote for someone who thinks she will lose. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, the Lib Dems have my vote. I think they may well take London. The MP next door is the tory wanker who manhandled a protester, Chuka is fighting that seat. In mine an immigrant child worker who came for a better life is standing, which will resonant with my neighbours.

Shit is about to get really interesting!

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Reply If I can be so rude to ask, how are you planning to vote? (Original post)
Soph0571 Oct 2019 OP
vsrazdem Oct 2019 #1
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #2
vsrazdem Oct 2019 #3
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #4
Celerity Oct 2019 #31
Denzil_DC Oct 2019 #7
vsrazdem Oct 2019 #8
mwooldri Oct 2019 #15
Pope George Ringo II Oct 2019 #5
OnDoutside Oct 2019 #9
Pope George Ringo II Oct 2019 #11
OnDoutside Oct 2019 #12
Pope George Ringo II Oct 2019 #14
OnDoutside Oct 2019 #22
Pope George Ringo II Oct 2019 #29
muriel_volestrangler Oct 2019 #6
Denzil_DC Oct 2019 #10
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #17
Denzil_DC Oct 2019 #24
Denzil_DC Oct 2019 #25
T_i_B Oct 2019 #30
Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #32
Denzil_DC Nov 2019 #33
OnDoutside Oct 2019 #13
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #20
OnDoutside Oct 2019 #23
mwooldri Oct 2019 #16
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #18
T_i_B Oct 2019 #19
Soph0571 Oct 2019 #21
Celerity Oct 2019 #26
BooScout Oct 2019 #27
LeftishBrit Oct 2019 #28

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 07:36 PM

1. Everyone on this board will vote D, otherwise they would not be here. That is all you need to know.

If you are asking about England, we don't vote there, and I actually have no clue how that system works.

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 07:40 PM

2. Ah but in the UK it is not that simple

You have Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens

All of them are relevant and progressives, but their stance on Brexit is very important in this General Election. How us UK DUers are going to vote really matters re what the next seated Parliament looks like.

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 07:43 PM

3. I see. Personally I think Brexit was idiotic, but that's just me. I really don't have any clue

what goes on in England, except that Boris Johson is a Freak.

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 07:46 PM

4. Boris is a wanker

And all of us here would not vote Tory...but the other choices are not as clear cut as they are in the US.
How we vote for progressive parties right now really matters if you want to stop Brexit. Brexit was the most idiotic thing ever.

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 11:35 AM

31. The Lib Dems are not progressives, they are Tory collaborators, they propped up Cameron for 5 years

5 years of austerity, privatisation, and a general diminution of our welfare state and protections for workers and the less well-off.

see here for more detail

https://www.democraticunderground.com/108817957#post26

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:07 PM

7. You replied to a post in the United Kingdom Group.

I'm not sure why, but there you are.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:09 PM

8. Sorry.

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 11:25 PM

15. If I had the vote in the UK it'd be LD.

Since I was a card carrying member of the Liberal Democrats.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:01 PM

5. I've been in the US long enough I don't get to vote in the UK, barring major changes.

But I joined the Liberal Democrats just to make a Brexit statement. If I were still in the UK, I'd hold my nose and vote tactically. A Tory majority means Brexit, while any other outcome is almost certainly a referendum, so I think that's the priority. Long term, my home is really probably Labour, but I despise and loathe Corbyn, so maybe after I've forgiven Labour for Brexit I'll see what's happening. It also looks a lot easier to forgive the Lib Dems for the coalition as time goes on and we see the full catastrophe which is a Tory government in all its miasma. I'm moving to Ireland next year (I've got an American spouse to naturalise and an Irish passport too, so Brexit encouraged us to avoid the UK), and at least I can vote there.

As a bonus, Americans don't know what to make of a card-carrying Liberal Democrat.

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:11 PM

9. Hey, welcome to Ireland !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:18 PM

11. Thank you. I was last there in 1976.

I gather it's changed just a little bit. The worst part is that I'm probably headed to Limerick, which poses all sorts of problems with internet research. Still, I'm really looking forward to going back. As an Anglo-Irish-American citizen, it's nice to have one government which is vaguely honourable.

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:26 PM

12. Everything is relative !

It's changed hugely alright, mostly for the better but still plenty of issues. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I go to Limerick for the Munster Rugby games, and I have cousins living on the Clare side of Limerick Actually Killaloe/Ballina is a nice place to live, and only a 20 minute drive into Limerick. Being born in Cork, naturally I prefer Cork over Limerick but I have made good friends in Limerick, through rugby.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:46 PM

14. Thank you for the offer. I may take you up on that.

My grandparents were from Cork, and I enjoyed a visit there more years ago than I care to admit. It looks like work is going to take me to Limerick, and housing can be exciting as my wife has some medical issues and can't drive or really walk very far, so the commuter towns might not be the choice they would be if I were single or she were healthy. I'm still actually a little relieved as Dublin was a possibility for a while and all I could see were €€€€€€ signs living there. Limerick looks a lot more reasonable, even if I am trying to find her a place with a bus stop right outside the door. And I do notice some of the commuter towns do okay on public transportation, so I'll look into Killaloe/Ballina, and thanks again.

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 06:53 AM

22. Having connections from Cork is always a positive ;)

Limerick is definitely more reasonable for property. I wouldn't live in Dublin myself, either.

Of the choices

Killaloe/Ballina - nice pretty town, with lots going on in the summer. Local bus goes into Limerick, and a train from Birdhill too, into Limerick.

Dooradoyle area - close to University Hospital Limerick and the Crescent Shopping Centre, but you don't get the scenery !

Limerick - https://www.daft.ie/limerick/houses-for-sale/farranshone/ Friends of mine live in this area, close to the Shannon river and the city centre.

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 07:49 PM

29. Thanks again. I'll include it in my homework.

Take care.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:05 PM

6. Lib Dem. Winchester and Chandlers Ford is a Tory/Lib Dem marginal that voted Remain

The Tory MP Steve Brine (in since 2010) was a junior minister who rebelled to stop No Deal, lost the whip, and got it back this evening (he'd been voting for both the May and Johnson deals), so I presume he will be standing as a Tory again (they'd left it unclear). It was Lib Dem from 1997 to 2010, and the local councils are Lib Dem majority, so there is a chance they can take it.

On the subject of Brexit and dates:

Brexit meltdown: 50p coins with 31 October date to be recycled

The decision comes after ministers agreed last week to “pause” production of the special-edition coin by the Royal Mint because of concerns that plans to leave the EU at the end of the month were unlikely to be fulfilled.

It is understood that thousands of coins with Thursday’s date on them will be melted down and the metal kept aside until the next Brexit date is agreed.

A Treasury spokesman said: “We will still produce a coin to mark our departure from the EU.”

The coins were supposed to mark Britain’s departure at the end of the month but the Treasury told the Royal Mint to begin stockpiling last week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/29/brexit-meltdown-50p-coins-with-31-october-date-to-be-recycled

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:14 PM

10. It probably won't be a surprise to hear I'll be voting SNP.

This constituency used to be Lib Dem country, the nearest challengers being the Tories, not much of a showing for the SNP or Labour.

It stopped being Lib Dem country after the Coalition, when our MP at the time, Alan Reid, discovered to his apparent surprise that, adequate constituency MP as he was, a lot of the Lib Dem vote here was tactical and folks didn't take kindly to his party empowering Tory austerity etc.

It went decidedly SNP in the 2015 landslide, the majority slipped somewhat in 2017, but should be a safe seat this time round. Brendan O'Hara is a decent MP, if rather unflashy.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 04:17 AM

17. I would not be surprised than other than Jo Swinson seat the whole of Scotland..

...goes SNP

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:02 AM

24. Swinson's seat is by no means secure.

She's not endeared herself to her constituents by living in Somerset and seldom visiting East Dunbartonshire - ironic as her major appeal as a candidate there was that she was a "local girl".

The seat was hers up until the SNP's 2015 big wave, when John Nicolson took it, then she won it back (amid some campaign finance irregularities) in 2017, and it's a definite SNP target this time, their candidate being Amy Callaghan, another "local girl". We don't have a full slate of candidates for that seat yet. If the Tories don't stand (which seems unlikely), Swinson will probably get their tactical votes.

There's a little surprise that Swinson didn't switch to an English constituency for this election. Given her ambitions, she's going to fall foul of Cameron's English Votes for English Laws legislation.

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 08:35 AM

25. Oh, and this plopped through my letterbox this morning:




I'm bracing my self for the avalanche of ultra-glossy Lib Dem literature that's sure to come my way if the last election is any guide.

Shades of the Tories and their "Ruth Davidson Party" campaigning - which has backfired not just because Davidson stood down as leader and the Scottish Tories have yet to choose her replacement, but because last week Davidson took a very lucrative second job with a lobbyist firm, then finally had to give it up after a major backlash (including from some in her own party's leadership) about the impropriety of a serving MSP taking on such a role, especially as she resigned from the leadership pleading the need to spend more time with her young child.

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Response to Denzil_DC (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 31, 2019, 10:35 AM

30. I've had the same one!

Looks like the Lib Dems are looking to build on local election success, and their success in getting the local MP to defect to them. Only leaflets I've had since May have been from them.

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Response to T_i_B (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 04:34 AM

32. I don't think this was a targeted mailing.

I've seen reports of it being seen throughout the UK.

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Response to T_i_B (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 1, 2019, 06:28 AM

33. Ha! Andrew Neil savaged Swinson about that leaflet on his show:



Wordamentalist @wordamentalist

Andrew Neil brings Swinson back down to Earth with a bang: “Everyone knows you’re not going to be the next prime minister.”

[Twitter video]

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 08:27 PM

13. Whoever people vote for, I hope it's tactical !

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Response to OnDoutside (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 04:22 AM

20. Too bloody right

Still if it goes wrong I am heading to the Irish embassy to get my passport. Gotta love the GFA and the rights for duel citizenship...

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 06:56 AM

23. I have a relative working in the Passport office in London and you can imagine how busy they've been

since Brexit ! The morning after the Brexit vote in 2016, they received 21,000 emails !

One cute thing that's been happening is (and it appears to be British Asians particularly who have copped on to it), is women travelling to Belfast to have their babies, because anyone born in NI, is automatically entitled to an Irish passport.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Oct 29, 2019, 11:55 PM

16. Guildford constituency should be interesting.

Anne Milton is one of the ex-Tories - kicked out of the party when she didn't go along with Boris's line. It's been mostly Tory but has had a Lib Dem MP in the past. Guildford voted remain. On a Brexit GE I can see the LD gaining this seat, especially if Anne Milton runs - she's not for cancelling Brexit.

East Surrey will also be interesting - it's been one of those constituencies where you could stick a blue rosette on a donkey and the donkey would win. Sam Gyimah switched to the Liberal Democrats after being booted out of the Tory party but his constituency voted Leave, albeit narrowly.

If this general election is a pure substitute for a Brexit referendum then lots of Tories in Remain areas will be receiving their P40s this December.

I fear Labour will receive a drubbing at this upcoming election. The LD message on Brexit is clear: Bollocks to Brexit.

In Wales, I believe the Conservatives will make gains at the expense of Labour.

I believe Caroline Lucas will retain her seat in Brighton Pavilion.

This is not a normal general election, as Brexit is imminent and that has people's minds focused.

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Response to mwooldri (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 04:19 AM

18. Is Sam Gymiah standing in his old seat as a LD?

He is not well liked in his constituency.

This is a Brexit election and I think the ma is going to be redrawn. We live in interesting times.

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 04:21 AM

19. I think he is standing in Kensington and Chelsea

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Response to T_i_B (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 04:23 AM

21. That makes more sense and he could take that

It has such a tiny majority.

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Response to Soph0571 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 10:18 AM

26. I vote in Kensington, I am voting Labour, I will NEVER vote for that ex Tory Gymiah, not a chance

The constituency is simply Kensington, not Kensington and Chelsea. Kensington and Chelsea was abolished for the 2010 election, when the 1974–1997 Kensington constituency was recreated and Chelsea formed a new constituency together with the southern part of the former Hammersmith and Fulham constituency, called the Chelsea and Fulham constituency.

Emma Dent Coad won Kensington by 20 votes in 2017 (5 from me and my family), the first time we beat the Tories in the history of its modern iterations.

I do not trust the Lib Dems at all, they are Tory collaborators. They propped up that rotter Cameron for 5 years, 5 years of austerity, privatisation, and a general diminution of our welfare state and protections for workers and the less well-off.


Sam Gyimah’s voting in Parliament Vote for Lib Dems, you get more of this rot in many cases:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24789/sam_gyimah/east_surrey

Generally voted against UK membership of the EU
5 votes for, 17 votes against, 2 absences, between 2016–2019


Almost always voted for fewer MPs in the House of Commons
6 votes for, 1 vote against, 1 absence, between 2010–2016

Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year
1 vote for, 0 votes against, in 2010


Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
0 votes for, 11 votes against, 4 absences, between 2011–2016


https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24789/sam_gyimah/east_surrey/votes

Consistently voted for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas
6 votes for, 1 vote against, between 2013–2015


Voted against investigations into the Iraq war
0 votes for, 1 vote against, in 2016


Consistently voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system
5 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2016


Generally voted against more EU integration
33 votes for, 58 votes against, 8 absences, between 2011–2019


Consistently voted against strengthening the Military Covenant
0 votes for, 3 votes against, between 2011–2012

Almost always voted against a right to remain for EU nationals already in living in the UK
0 votes for, 15 votes against, 3 absences, between 2016–2019


Consistently voted for military action against ISIL (Daesh)
3 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2014–2015

Generally voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax"n)
12 votes for, 0 votes against, 6 absences, between 2011–2018


Consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices
0 votes for, 5 votes against, in 2013


Almost always voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
0 votes for, 11 votes against, 4 absences, between 2011–2016


Consistently voted for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support
4 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2012

Almost always voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
47 votes for, 0 votes against, 7 absences, between 2012–2016


Almost always voted against spending public money to create guaranteed jobs for young people who have spent a long time unemployed
0 votes for, 8 votes against, 1 absence, between 2011–2014


Generally voted for lower taxes on fuel for motor vehicles
6 votes for, 8 votes against, 2 absences, between 2010–2013

Consistently voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000
0 votes for, 12 votes against, between 2012–2015


Generally voted against a banker’s bonus tax
1 vote for, 13 votes against, 4 absences, between 2011–2015


Voted a mixture of for and against higher taxes on banks
6 votes for, 9 votes against, between 2011–2018

Almost always voted against an annual tax on the value of expensive homes (popularly known as a mansion tax)
0 votes for, 3 votes against, 1 absence, in 2013

Consistently voted for allowing employees to exchange some employment rights for shares in the company they work for
5 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2012–2013


Almost always voted for more restrictive regulation of trade union activity
9 votes for, 0 votes against, 2 absences, between 2010–2017


Almost always voted for reducing capital gains tax
8 votes for, 1 vote against, between 2010–2016

Consistently voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax
25 votes for, 1 vote against, between 2010–2016

Consistently voted against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS
0 votes for, 7 votes against, between 2011–2012


Almost always voted for reforming the NHS so GPs buy services on behalf of their patients
7 votes for, 0 votes against, 1 absence, between 2011–2019


Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education
2 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2011


Consistently voted for university tuition fees
5 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2010–2017


Consistently voted for a stricter asylum system
8 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2015–2016


Consistently voted for stronger enforcement of immigration rules
9 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2015–2016


Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities
3 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2016

Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change
3 votes for, 16 votes against, 1 absence, between 2011–2019


Generally voted for lower taxes on fuel for motor vehicles
6 votes for, 8 votes against, 2 absences, between 2010–2013

Consistently voted for selling England’s state owned forests
2 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2011

Generally voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) to extract shale gas
1 vote for, 2 votes against, 1 absence, in 2015

Consistently voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail
3 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2010–2011


Consistently voted against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents
0 votes for, 5 votes against, between 2014–2018

Almost always voted for the policies included in the 2010 Conservative - Liberal Democrat Coalition Agreement
61 votes for, 8 votes against, 12 absences, between 2010–2015






As for Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems in General

hard pass



Here's more proof why it's hard to trust Jo Swinson on anything

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2019/09/16/heres-more-proof-why-its-hard-to-trust-jo-swinson-on-anything/

Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson has pledged “to stop Brexit altogether”. But here’s more evidence showing why it’s hard to trust her on anything.

“What?!?

At party conference, the Liberal Democrats agreed to cancel Brexit if they get into power. Swinson said:

We will do all we can to fight for our place in Europe, and to stop Brexit altogether.


But if her voting record and refusal to work with Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t bad enough, a new video has emerged showing that Swinson previously backed a referendum on UK EU membership.

In 2008, Swinson said:




The Liberal Democrats would like to have a referendum on the major issue of in or out of Europe.


As her voting record shows, Swinson did indeed vote for a referendum in 2008. And indeed, despite blaming David Cameron for the 2016 referendum, the Lib Dems supported this option while Nick Clegg was at the helm, who led the party between 2007-2015:








The Lib Dems are deeply stained by austerity. Don’t trust them

With a new leader the party is enjoying a resurgence, but its support for the Tories in coalition can’t be forgotten so easily

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/23/lib-dems-stained-austerity-trust-tories



The Liberal Democrats are back, or so we’re told, with Jo Swinson’s leadership victory being pitched as the rebirth of the party. The unique conditions of Brexit have given the Lib Dems not only a reason to exist but the opportunity to detoxify their brand after their fatal coalition with the Conservatives, and to cast themselves as a reforming, progressive party in troubled times.

And yet remarkably little has changed since the days when Nick Clegg stood laughing in the Downing Street rose garden next to David Cameron as he signed Britain up to years of sweeping public spending cuts. When asked throughout this summer’s leadership campaign, Swinson (and her opponent, Ed Davey) consistently defended her party’s role in austerity measures. In an interview with Channel 4 News, Swinson said she had no regrets about the coalition, stating it was the right move “to get our country back on track”. This is despite the fact it has been shown that austerity shrunk the British economy by £100bn, and has even been linked to 130,000 preventable deaths. Swinson acknowledged “there were policies we let through [in coalition] that we shouldn’t have done”, naming the bedroom tax, but remained unrepentant on a whole host of others.

Instead, Swinson repeatedly claims credit for the Lib Dems being a moderating influence on the Tories. They may well have helped to rein in the Conservatives on some things (the party is said to have forced George Osborne to temporarily shelve child tax credit cuts) but this fundamentally misses the point: the Lib Dems weren’t coerced into the partnership, they voluntarily chose it, and as such were a reason every Tory cut that was passed was possible.

This isn’t about holding grudges or some sort of ideological purity. Political parties naturally evolve depending on the political times, and progress in policy positions should be credited. It was four years ago this week that the Labour party adopted its abysmal abstention strategy for key “welfare reform”, but the party has since wrestled internally to have the strong anti-austerity message it holds today, winning back support in the process.

The same cannot be said for the Lib Dems. This is a party that as recently as last year spoke of sacrificing some of the poorest people in society to benefit sanctions in exchange for a 5p tax on plastic bags while in coalition. Nor are their MPs against forming a pact with the Tories again, with Swinson simply ruling out joining forces with Boris Johnson or any Brexiteer.

snip

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 03:10 PM

27. Well I can't vote...

...since I don't have British Citizenship, I can't vote. I guess I'd vote tactically if I could...which probably means Labour..but I really don't like Corbyn. If it wouldn't cost me another £1500 to get citizenship, I might have gone for it, but there's really no point to it since I have Indefinite Leave to Remain.

I still get to vote against Trump though!

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Wed Oct 30, 2019, 07:02 PM

28. LibDem - more on 'who's the least worst' basis

Can't stand Johnson. Not a fan of Corbyn (for competence reasons as well as some other issues), though anyone's better than Johnson. Swinson's a bit underwhelming, but at least she's anti-Brexit.


I do positively like my MP Layla Moran, and I'm in a LibDem/Tory marginal, which makes the decision a bit clearer.

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