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Wed Nov 16, 2016, 10:52 AM

Wow! The Guardian isn't pulling their punches

I think they're more upset about the election results than we are.

As to the descent into leftwing in-fighting, so distracting from the task of trenchantly opposing a fascist, it has the same driver: if you are fighting to reach a consensus, however bitterly, you can only do so with people who will move. You cannot discuss climate change with a person who thinks all scientists are crooked; you cannot discuss abortion with people who conceive women as chattel to begin with; it’s meritless. And yet to fight with one another is not neutral, it does more than just pass the time. It creates false equivalence or, worse, a hierarchy that has its arse on backwards. If you are talking about Hillary Clinton’s corporate cosiness and not Trump’s endorsement by the KKK, you are unavoidably putting one above the other.


edited to provide link:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/15/dangerous-fantasy-donald-trump-normalisation-us-president-elect-barbarism?CMP=fb_gu

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 12:06 PM

1. this

 

"The purpose of making these basic arguments is solidarity with one another, lest, in the silence, we lose our bearings."

this, we have to remember.

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:34 PM

2. I still say we need to get the message that we need to focus on reviving factory jobs....

 

Every time the subject of "jobs" comes up the answer from too any Democrats is still "education". The idea of free college only so you can "learn the jobs of the 21st century". This is a Neoliberal dream where we are a nation of administrators and coders working out of our homes in suburbia doing high tech.

Then it turned out all the high tech jobs could be outsourced to India.

Refusing to give up the failed policy and STILL treating the working class as ignorant because they don't have college degrees for those nonexistent high tech jobs is something that needs to be discussed and rejected.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:36 PM

3. That's not true. Re-tooling also came up

However, no debate moderator once mentioned climate change, so it didn't really become part of the campaigns at any point (moving coal jobs to renewable energy jobs). You don't think that was on Hillary's agenda? Because it was, yet she had to sit there during that ridiculous "Commander in Chief" forum and answer 11 straight minutes of questions about emails.

We also should be discussing our educational system and how we can revive vocational training in high schools. That, also, didn't come up at any debate.

When we have a media complicit in not raising real-world issues, this is what happens.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:41 PM

4. This is why Bernie would have been better.....

 

He could pivot a question about his shoes toward any topic on his agenda.

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:49 PM

5. Boris the new semi-Neville Chamberlain (although Boris is a fucking closet fascist himself)

 

But Boris Johnson, foreign secretary, telling EU leaders to “snap out of the doom and gloom”, calling Trump a “dealmaker”, “someone with whom we can do business”, telling us to “see this is an opportunity”

Its sorta like watching 1933 onward ALL OVER AGAIN.

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 01:52 PM

6. Now support the Guardian

Like many periodicals, the Guardian has expenses for their excellent US reporting and opinions. Try supporting them. And if you haven't subscribed to the the Washington Post, DO IT. We need a voice besides Breitbart or your Facebook page to get real information. Freedom ain't free.

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Response to njcpa1978 (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:49 PM

9. Sent in my donation after I read the article.

Will be subscribing to WAPO after my free offer expires. Love what they have been doing.

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Response to njcpa1978 (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 07:20 AM

12. Yes. I have a friend who is a deputy editor there, getting laid off. They're in financial trouble.

The Guardian does tremendous work, not just on elections but also on climate change. Their environment section is my go-to source for climate change news (after the climatologists I follow on twitter.)

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:29 PM

7. Surviving an autocratic regime Rule No 5: Dont make compromises.

"Politics cannot be the art of the possible when the impossible has already happened."

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:51 PM

10. That's probably the most important rule.

Democrats just always seem to be so wussy and kumbaya.

We need to stand firm against fascism!

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Wed Nov 16, 2016, 02:48 PM

8. Excellent article!

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Response to ewagner (Original post)

Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:10 AM

11. Obama's face when he's shaking that buffoon's hand

Obama knows

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