I have family in North Carolina, someone help me understand.

[Tigress DEM]

My family is made up of good people in general, hard working, generous with their time and resources. The kind of people who would help a neighbor, friend or stranger and feel it was just part of their Christian journey have been lied to and they believe it.

They seem to think that Romney will help bring back manufacturing jobs to the state.... though he is one of the original outsourcing millionaires and Obama has actually helped the Auto Industry and has been trying to get jobs bills through while putting out all the fires started by the Bush administration. Still... they believe a man who lies every chance he gets just because he wraps a flag around himself and says he's a Christian (well Mormon) and now is against abortion, though he was for it before.



I know people on DU who live in NC aren't drinking the koolaid. What do YOU say to friends and neighbors who think Romney is the answer? Any kind of facts seem to fall on deaf ears.

Tig

[FLyellowdog]

1. "Any kind of facts seem to fall on deaf ears."

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Bingo!

[Tigress DEM]

5. I know, but I love my family and hate to see them voting against their own best interest. nt

[Politicalboi]

2. Ask one of your friends or relatives

If they would raise a rape baby. I mean what if their wife got raped and later became pregnant. What if abortion isn't available. Or the mothers life is in danger, and abortion is not a choice she may make. Ask your friends if they prefer wearing condoms with their girlfriends, or is birth control better. A lot of men don't think this involves them.

[Tigress DEM]

3. It took more than that and I got only minimal admission of real compassion

I posted the below photo and associated story:

This is what I said about it, knowing my family believes that God can help someone rise above any challenge.

"Compassionate people who believe in a God of love do see that He can heal all wounds, yet somehow, I think this is asking too much in some cases and there should be a choice."


(story that goes with pic:
Consider the question.

Natasha Jordan asks - Is it sinking in yet?
They all (republicans) want women to carry to term and have their rapist’s baby, while they heal from being beaten, tortured, stabbed and sometimes even shot. It does not ...matter if she is near death or not. It does not matter if it was even her own father who got her pregnant. The Republican's made it an official part of their party platform for the convention. No abortion for rape or incest. Can you imagine if this happens? Your daughter, girlfriend, sister, mother or wife or even YOU would be forced by law to give birth. FORCED by LAW.

I suggest you start paying attention. This is NOT 'smaller' government to barbarically force ANY woman or young girl to do this. This is not the role our government should be taking. People need jobs. Our roads and bridges built in 1950 need repair, our children need better education, our poor and veteran's need our help. This is not the party of what is good for the people of our nation. This is the party of false morality, because once you are born, you do not matter.

Image by: We the people via Strong Intelligent Women Choosing Equality and Freedom
Note: The picture used by Strong Intelligent Women Choosing Equality and Freedom is of an 18 year old woman that was beaten.


Remember pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.See More )

[Tigress DEM]

4. This is a typical family response to the idea of rape and choice....

My Aunt:
the morning after pill is the medication usually given as soon as the person is admitted to the hospital. Girls can get pregnant any time after age 9-It is a shame that animals roam among us, and I do not believe in aborting a child, but if the womb is treated it will reject the eggs. It is available over the counter to.
Friday at 10:44pm




So by voting for Romney she is supporting a group that will not only make it difficult or nearly impossible to get the morning after pill, but since they are trying to legislate that a woman has to have a judge determine if she was raped before she can actually take any pill like that the time will be passed for anything like that to work.

[Tigress DEM]

6. I even put links to clear information that PROVES Obama is doing better than FAUX news would lead on

How are people trusting one of the ORIGINAL Outsourcing Millionaires vs someone who shows by his attitude toward people and his track record that he cares about America and American jobs? I guess those are some pretty impressive political a...ds and a lot of dazzling bs on the campaign trail, because I just don't see the appeal of Romney *****

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/06/fox-amp-friends-fails-to-discredit-obamas-manuf/186974

I snipped out the important parts:

1) During the BUSH Presidency ..... <snip> " nearly 4.5 million manufacturing jobs were lost. These job losses led The Wall Street Journal to call Bush's history of job creation "the worst track record on record."

2) <snip> In June of 2009, shortly after the federal government rescued the automotive industry, jobs in the manufacturing sector started to grow. From the official end of the recession in June 2009 to May 2012, the manufacturing sector has added 228,000 jobs.

3) <snip> "... since the official end of the most recent recession, Ohio has added 43,800 jobs to its manufacturing sector. During the ***Bush*** administration, Ohio's manufacturing sector lost over 315,000 jobs.

[julian09]

7. Just a few weeks ago the repugs voted down a bill that Obama wanted

it would have given a taxbreak for companies that bring jobs back to US and would have done away with tax breaks for companies
exporting jobs, in other words paying the company for exporting jobs equipment etc.
Does that sound like repugs are interested in bringing jobs back.

[Tigress DEM]

15. Anyone have a link to that story or which bill was it? I could look it up in Thomas.gov

Because these things are happening DURING Obama's term of office so NC relatives have been convinced HE is DOING this TO them.

Even the whole Ryan speech blames Obama for stuff Ryan himself is the culprit for or things that happened in 2008.

[Tigress DEM]

8. Here's a different question. Who REALLY killed the manufacturing jobs in North Carolina?

Maybe data showing that these jobs were lost due to some other reason, perpetrator, then my family would see reason.

Romney is giving lots of lip service to bringing manufacturing jobs to hard hit areas.

[GOPonziconz]

9. Here are a couple of excellent rants I read on DK just tonight. The one by Jesse LeGreca is

here:

[link:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/09/1053088/-An-open-letter-to-the-people-who-hate-Obama-more-than-they-love-America|

and here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021201993

They might give you some good ideas. I have a sister that I fight with every 2 weeks like clockwork. She is a t-person and just can't help herself, she's a serial hater that I sometimes don't talk to for a year or 2 at a time. She is 70 and I am almost 60 so there isn't much time left for us. I am so disappointed as I always thought she was the smart one and I looked up to her until I was in my 30's and realized she was the dumbass!

[Tigress DEM]

16. I don't see the links.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Well, North Carolina got all those jobs largely because...

companies like J.P. Stevens moved their union mills down there for the cheap labor. Low taxes, limited regulation and subsidies helped

Now they found cheap labor somewhere else,

It sucks, but if you're going to sell cheap labor and less regulation to get business, well, it's gonna come back and bite you in the ass.

[Tigress DEM]

17. Right, but some think that cheap labor and less regulation is a God given right for corporations

My best line is that if I have to pay bills as a citizen, have to clean up my own messes, then corporations should too.

[Warpy]

11. They'll deny it but they're still fighting the Civil War down there

They kept Jesse Helms and are keeping Virginia Foxx in power because they know such cretins piss off all those pointy headed college boys up in New York.

That's really all a lot of them care about when it comes to politics, pissing off the Yankees.

[Tigress DEM]

18. My family are honestly believing they are doing the right thing.

For them it's mostly about the abortion issue and they are believing that Obama is lying and doing terrible things.

It seems some churches are even preaching propaganda.

[Warpy]

21. Some churches?

I'm afraid that's where they're getting most of it.

[Tigress DEM]

25. Yeah, so how can they believe me vs God's word?

But if I look at the situation as a Christian, to me it's obvious that someone like Romney is a Pharisee type and more likely to abuse power. Especially since so much of what they say about Obama is pure lies.

God wouldn't have to steal an election if he wanted someone in power.

God would never have His chosen lie, crush the oppressed and scatter the faithful.

At least not the God I grew up learning about.

[Squinch]

12. Hey! I have those same relatives!

Some ARE good people

But let's face it, some are just people who for whatever reason feel inferior and the Republican party helps them to think that others are more inferior than they are. Those, you'll never have any traction with.

The good ones, though, are tough. The conservative culture is so strong down there that they are always reinforced. It's pervasive, and it is in every moment of life.

I remember being at a party down there once when some man who I never saw before came into the kitchen and handed me a plate and said, "Here, do something with this." Because I am female. I pointed to the sink, to let him know that he could as easily put the plate in there as I could. Another woman, a woman who I knew to have a high level job, grabbed the plate from him and he walked out of the room. The other woman gave me a look as if I had been rude.

That's just a minor, nothing incident, and it just touches on one area in which Republicans are offensive, namely their assumptions about the role of women. But it seemed to me to be an indication of a very, very different worldview than I have ever experienced.

[Tigress DEM]

19. You were so nice. I would have told him to 'Bend over," but I'm a damm yankee.

[Squinch]

22. You're coming with me to their next party!

[Tigress DEM]

26. Cool!

[NorthCarolina]

13. They don't want to hear facts....period.

Prior to the Paul Ryan VP selection I was having a discussion with a staunch Republican (and gay) friend regarding the Ryan plan to dismantle Medicare noting that Romney had publicly backed the Ryan plan. He vehemently denied that Romney had publicly endorsed the plan and said I was making it up. I grabbed my iPad, went to YouTube and pulled up the clip where Romney did in fact endorse the Ryan plan. He wouldn't even LOOK at it, simply stating that if it is on YouTube it was undoubtedly a Photoshopped fake that he had no interest in watching. When I told him that he was in effect cutting off his own nose to spite his face, and that if Romney did win he would likely move to enact the provisions of the Ryan Plan, he became angry and yelled there is NO WAY they would ever do that because nobody would vote for them, then just kept repeating "it's not gonna happen" "it's not gonna happen", then walked out. I haven't spoken to him about it since, but I can't help but wonder if he has personally revisited our conversation in light of Ryan being selected as the VP nominee.

The GOP is pushing seniors here, attempting to instill the thought process of "I got mine and it won't go away for me, so voting a GOP ticket is fine". My guess is that it will work for many who feel that voting GOP is voting as god would.

[Tigress DEM]

20. MY relatives want me to see that 2016 propoganda flick

I know I get my fill of lies pretty quickly and want to retch at stuff.

Your friend and my relatives must feel the same. The propaganda seems real, after all it's in the "news" and it doesn't matter that even the people who are lying through their teeth come back and recant, the damage is done. They have their sound bite.

So when we can disprove their position, it must seem like someone trying to tell us that Obama never showed his birth certificate. Both forms have links from the White House website, but, you know.

[johnlucas]

31. The only thing stranger than a Black Republican is a Gay Republican

Your friend is coocoo for Cocoa Puffs I'm sorry to say.
His refusal to admit he was mistaken robs him of the opportunity for wisdom.
Maybe he was just too proud & didn't want to admit defeat in front of you.
He might come back to you later & admit he misread the situation...I hope.
John Lucas

[Tunkamerica]

14. that pic doesn't look much like nc.

[Tigress DEM]

32. I never said the "pic" was NC. My relatives who live there get all these "talking points" crap.

In fact one of my relatives that is giving me the hardest time lives in NM, and that CEMCO is headquartered there.

Whoever originated it, wherever it is, isn't my point. They agree with the sentiment is the purpose of the pic.

I don't understand them and I wish I could because maybe I wouldn't feel so sad about it then. Maybe I'd be able to accept it and not feel so personally betrayed. Family says they love you all the time, but I think to myself, "How can you say you love me and then vote for PEOPLE who REALLY took jobs away?!

[Tunkamerica]

37. But you can see how people might think it was in NC.

I'm sure you can find some stupid sign in bumfuck, NC to make your point.

[Tigress DEM]

38. Don't take this wrong, but are you OCD?

I've explained about the picture all up and down the post and I'm not going to find another picture.

[Tunkamerica]

39. no. and i think i might have been pretty close to the first to mention it.

if not, you didn't have to respond; especially with an insult.

[carolina blue]

23. Speak their language

I suspect their religion has much to do with their opinions. NC Baptists have a long history of opposing Mormonism, but have been conspicuously quiet about the subject during this campaign. In the '80s my Baptist church showed us a movie about Mormonism. It criticized, ridiculed, and warned of the LDS church's desire to control the US. Points that will matter to Christians:

1. Mormons are not Christians.
A. Mormons do not believe Jesus was born of a virgin. (This is prereq to accepting Christ, your family confessed to this.)
B. Mormons believe that men become gods of their own personal planets when they die.
C. Mormons believe that the God of the Bible is merely a man who graduated to god after death.
D. Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers.
E. Mormonism relies on scripture that Joseph Smith alledgedly discovered in the US a couple hundred years ago.

2. Mormons want control of the US.
A. Google the White Horse Prophecy.
B. Mormons disguise themselves as Christians to gain acceptance by the mainstream. They claim to be Christians, and the
uneducated do not know better.

The Billy Graham Evangelical Assoc. declares Mormonism is a cult. http://www.billygraham.org/articlepage.asp?articleid=2072

Others:

http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/comparison.php

http://www.religionfacts.com/mormonism/comparison.htm

[carolina blue]

24. Do your homework first

Make sure you can back up any claims you make. Don't be disappointed if the best you can do is discourage them from voting for either. That is an accomplishment in itself, believe me. I live among them.

[Tigress DEM]

27. Thanks. The White Horse Prophecy. Interesting.

[kestrel91316]

28. I'm curious why you felt the need to post that pic since anyone with

the slightest knowledge of American geography can see it's NOT from NC. In fact it's not even close.

[patrice]

29. New Mexico

[Tigress DEM]

34. I think you're right.

One of my relatives that has also been giving me a hard time lives in NM and the CEMCO HQ is in NM too.

SHE probably liked it so my Aunt in NC saw that and went 1 step further and liked it and SHARED it on Facebook, which is how I got the pic in the first place. I didn't even think about "where" the pic was located, just the fact that my Aunt was so gung ho about bashing Obama for job loss in NC.

[patrice]

36. I googled the company's name on the sign.

[Tigress DEM]

33. I really hadn't thought about "where" the pic is located. It was a "like this" Facebook thing.

Since my relatives in NC are on my Facebook their political leanings are too. One of my relatives "liked" this pic and associated anti-Obam article and SHARED it.

What bugs me about the pic and the article is that I KNOW Romney is the one who will close plants or lay people off and Obama is the one who'll create jobs. So the fact that my relatives have tons of propoganda that says just the opposite and that they believe every word of it makes me cringe and feel so hurt.

HOW can people I know and love THINK this way?

[JohnnyRingo]

30. Deaf ears? It's like that here in NE Ohio too....

My conservative friends start the conversation with a comment about Obama, but once I begin addressing their concerns they tell me they don't want to talk about politics. They say they've never actually heard him speak and always change the channel when he comes on TV.

They do however listen to AM radio, and most of the comments they make are parroting Limbaugh or the local loudmouth koolaid pusher. They never seem to know the details of their criticisms, just the basic accusations. That's why they don't like to discuss it long. These are the infamous "low information voters" Mitt Romney is counting on.

Despite their lack of depth when it comes to politics they can rattle off the stats of the Cleveland Browns starter, and cite every offensive lineman by name. They keep track of how many games out the Tribe is on any given day the way Warren Buffet watches the Dow Jones, but they don't know the real name of "Obamacare" or have a clue who Lilly Ledbetter is.

Makes my head spin.

[Tigress DEM]

35. I listen to AM radio too.... AM 950 - Air America Radio

My biggest problem is the sheer mass of dis-information out there.

There isn't enough time in the day to counter it all. I don't even watch TV because it's such a waste of my sanity.