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socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 09:04 AM Apr 2014

Interesting article from Worker's Power-GB on the Left Unity ........

organizing and policy conference. Interesting because this is something that a lot of us in this forum would like to see, BUT is not a total panacea when it comes to transforming society. This is the Second International "reform vs revolution" debate all over again. But at least it's a start towards unifying the far left and the reformist left for immediate goals.

http://www.workerspower.co.uk/2014/04/report-of-left-unity-policy-conference-29-march/

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Interesting article from Worker's Power-GB on the Left Unity ........ (Original Post) socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 OP
Interesting... 2banon Apr 2014 #1
You're welcome and yes...... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #2
No.. can't quite seem to cut that cord. 2banon Apr 2014 #3
Oh yes, mos def.......... socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #4
exactly so.. 2banon Apr 2014 #5
Researching Marxist and Leninist ideas on co-ops will be my........ socialist_n_TN Apr 2014 #6
My instincts suggest that will be the case.. 2banon Apr 2014 #7
Post Script.. 2banon Apr 2014 #8
 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
1. Interesting...
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 03:05 PM
Apr 2014

excerpting (bold emphasis mine)

The policy commissions drafted the main policy motion for each section of the conference agenda, with the privileged position of both motivating the motion and then to replying to amendments before the vote, but without any slot for a speaker to oppose the motion and the movers of amendments having no right of reply. Very little time was allowed for speeches from the floor, and most of these were speaking for and against the amendments, not on the main motion, thus often focussing the discussion on smaller issues.

So the key motion on the economy – i.e. the answer to the question “how would a left Unity government pay for all the reforms and changes it proposes?” – was voted on after two speeches for and none against. The chair’s (correct and democratic) decision to take an opposing speech was challenged from the floor and voted down by conference.

Indeed the constitution commission acted throughout the conference as some sort of authority on “its” constitution. This was in part because the standing orders of the conference are thoroughly inadequate and need serious amendment. In addition any privileged positions for the commissions needs to be ended, as these bodies are self-selected not elected and should have no authority to decide what the conference can and cannot decide.

This procedure has to be challenged. An essential element of democracy is conference hearing both points of view, and limiting it in the name of “saving time” is pure demagogy. This happened quite a few times after a point of order from the floor. This is a bad practice and we should ensure it doesn’t become the norm.



These are the kinds of challenges (to put it as diplomatically as I can) that do need to be dealt with head on. But even the process of struggling through these challenges is enormously frustrating, taxing on energy, motivation, and unfortunately often times toxic.

I'm of course projecting my own experiences on a much smaller scale rather than (or as compared to) working with an international organization..

It's interesting to read about this though, thanks for posting..


socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
2. You're welcome and yes......
Fri Apr 11, 2014, 05:02 PM
Apr 2014

it's the "moderate" reformers that hold the positions that controlled the debate. As I said in the intro to this post, these are almost exactly the same arguments and tactics that plagued the Second International. Reformists can't allow TOO much debate on the practical "how" of ruling for the people because their tactics are doomed from the start because they don't want to get rid of capitalism. And as long as capitalism is in place, you'll continuously face the question of "how".

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
3. No.. can't quite seem to cut that cord.
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 01:14 AM
Apr 2014

it's a conundrum. capitalism is fairly frmly in place globally, even in "communist" countries.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
4. Oh yes, mos def..........
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 10:03 AM
Apr 2014

As an aside, one thing about capitalism that allowed it to become so entrenched is that it's not really that incompatible to the feudal system that it replaced. IOW, both systems could co-exist for decades and centuries while capitalism, being the historically more progressive system, was able to undermine feudalism. Overt revolution was not always necessary, but when it was needed, the societal structures were already in place to support the revolutions of the bourgeoisie.

Replacing capitalism with socialism will not be as easy since the more progressive system is diametrically opposed to the old system. It will be a LOT more messy. The previous historical systemic transformations have also led many people into the illusion that it can be done gradually. It can't. Gradualism when it comes to replacing capitalism is not going to be possible, at least not on a large scale.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
5. exactly so..
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:09 AM
Apr 2014

Not going to be possible. As you say, it would be too messy. Which is why the tendency to create micro communities (communes essentially) has a certain appeal. Cooperatives is a natural business model. For example there is a very successful bakery here in the Bay Area, Arizmendy, which is a Coop which would be useful to model after.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
6. Researching Marxist and Leninist ideas on co-ops will be my........
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 11:30 AM
Apr 2014

next "study" project. I think this pattern will be a large part of a socialist USA.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
7. My instincts suggest that will be the case..
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 01:02 PM
Apr 2014

I haven't made a study of it, but I think about the possibilities from time to time. Just haven't fleshed out the details.. There's this sort of hazy, utopian dream like version, but then, right at the point of the collective decision making processes, everything vanishes in the fog, because we can't quite seem to get past that boggy, toxic cesspool slosh of identity politics. But on a micro level, it's doable I think.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
8. Post Script..
Sat Apr 12, 2014, 01:40 PM
Apr 2014

To be clear, it's not as though I don't have empathy for issues of racism, classism, sexism, and all the other isms.. I'm so there..

However.. there's a point where it almost seems as though if those issues are not completely solved for the entire world for all time, well then forget about moving forward, because there is no forward when we're mired in the eternal blame game of privilege.

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