Game of Thrones 7.6 "Beyond the Wall" (spoiler alert)

[NewJeffCT]

sorry I'm late - I was out of state in an area with poor internet... The episode clocks in at over 67 minutes tonight, so adjust your DVRs, if needed.

Jon's mission continues north of the wall, but the odds against his ragged band of misfits may be greater than he imagined.

[bettyellen]

1. You are tardy, my friend! And me, I read the spoilers for the rest of the season...

Still excited to see it. Going to be some awesome CGI ending off the season. So I hear!

[Iggo]

2. Uh-oh.

[Iggo]

3. By the way...is this going to be a "leak free" thread?

It's okay if it's not.

I just try to make my GOT experience leak free.

[NewJeffCT]

4. yes, I won't post anything on the leaked episode

until after the episode starts.

[blogslut]

10. Me either!

Although I did miss the last 10-ish minutes because the bootleg stream cut it short. Regardless will totally re-watch it tonight on HBO Now.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. You mean, will Tyrion piss from the wall again? I won't tell you. nt

[Iggo]

11. Yes, exactly that. Thank you.

[NewJeffCT]

5. some articles from the past week

Sansa and Arya do carpool karaoke:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/carpool-karaoke-game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-sophie-turner-apple-music-1202533930/

final season starts shooting in October:
http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/19/game-of-thrones-final-season-october/

most likely to die tonight:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/08/20/ranking-the-game-of-thrones-characters-most-likely-to-die-in-jon-snows-suicide-squad/#5df3af24e578

The "big moment" for Jon Snow?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-see-moment-winter-is-jon-snow-1030903

[Solly Mack]

6. I'm excited.

As usual.

My sister watches leaks online and I almost have to hang up on her to keep her from telling me.

I like going in cold.

[MuseRider]

8. I am freaking out about the Hound.

He has such a strong story line but...........

He became one of my favorite characters reading the books and it is even better now. It would suck to lose Tormand as well. I would be surprised if anything happened to Jon. I see him going at least through most of the next season if not to the end, I just cannot see him going out now but they are certainly compromised North of the Wall and nobody minds killing them off. Is Thoros with them? Beric? Whew, I think they are. Gimme a kiss Beric!

Oh god, I just remembered, isn't The Onion Knight with them too? Ooooh, I am so glad it was a busy week or I would have been totally freaked out by now. Now I just have until the show tonight. I hope we don't get rain or we will lose our TV. Ohhhh I am officially upset and worried.

I honestly do not know how I got this consumed by this show. The books yes but the show? It is outstanding...except for some really stupid stuff this season. I can certainly deal with that.

Does anyone else listen to podcasts? I usually listen to Take the Black but would be interested if someone knows another good one. They are perfect entertainment when I am cleaning the barn.

[Iggo]

12. Jon's the hero, so he's safe.

Just like Ned.

Wait. Wha...?

[MuseRider]

13. Exactly!

I will never forget reading that moment with Ned thinking, well now, this is a different sort of book.

[NewJeffCT]

14. same here

that was the big moment for me - he was the central character up to that point, and he died. And then Drogo died in Essos soon afterwards as well.

[MuseRider]

16. In between there were a few I did not care about

at least Visery's...eeewww, what a creep and what a way to go. Wow.

[Iggo]

15. Second to last chapter, wasn't it?

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Will delve into your links, since I have time before GOT.

In case anyone has time to kill, would appreciate it if you would drop in to read an Oped I wrote this morning. Looking for feedback. Respond to that thread, if you so desire or feel free to PM me.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029492467

Thanks in advance!

[bettyellen]

18. I really liked it but couldn't follow exactly what happened w the HOA?

I think I get the general idea, but in avoiding talking about the exact issue that came to them... it sort of made it read more complicated to me? Or just distsracted me because I was wondering what the issuer itself was while reading it- if that makes sense.

[Baitball Blogger]

32. That's good feedback.

When the time comes, I know that will have to be the first hurdle I have to tackle. Start by describing an event that will show that public- private backwater politics lead to catastrophic community dynamics. And definitely create an impossible situation for minorities.

Thanks bettyellen!

[bettyellen]

34. It sounds like you have good reason to be discreet, but I'm dead curious...

Maybe if you could write yourself out of the story and not use your name- and see how that feels?

[Baitball Blogger]

37. No need to write myself out of this story. Just have been looking for the right way to write

if from first person view.

[bettyellen]

53. Oh, I assumed you didn't go into detail because of potential blowback?

[Baitball Blogger]

54. It can always get worse, I suppose.

I try to be philosophical about it. It just gives me more to write about.

[bettyellen]

56. Well that's why I thought it would be a good exercise to just let it all out and then

Maybe go back and strip out identifying details? Or do some research on similar things happening to make it part of a bigger thing, culturally? Not sure I'm explaining it right. I'd be interested in reading more at any rate.

[Baitball Blogger]

59. I'll keep that in mind.

Thank you.

[bettyellen]

61. Oh sure, anytime!

[bettyellen]

17. 33 minutes to go....

[NewJeffCT]

20. 20 minutes now

should be epic

[bettyellen]

22. I'm channeling you, Jeff! Hee hee. Am excited about this season....

It's really the first time I have all the families straight.

[bettyellen]

19. Has anyone else fallen in love w Insecure and Issa? My god I love that show!

[NewJeffCT]

21. never heard of it

i'll look it up

[bettyellen]

23. It's thirty minutes after the end of GOT. The lead actress writes it....

Young black women in LA, funny and very smart. She's put together an interesting ensemble cast too. It's the second season, but it's kind of a modern MTM- work shit and guy shit- so you can pretty much jump in anytime.

[NewJeffCT]

24. just about time now

should be fun

[Yavin4]

25. Here we go. Let's all take a deep breath.

Waiting for this episode all week.

[NewJeffCT]

26. here we go

the suicide squad/magnificent 7/7 samurai to set forth - north of the wall

[NewJeffCT]

27. Gendry not doing well North of the Wall

mocked by Tormund and The Hound complains he's whining

[NewJeffCT]

28. Jon - don't give away Longclaw

to Mormont. Nice gesture, and glad Mormont turned it down

[bettyellen]

29. OMG he loves Brianna of Tarth! Awesome!

[Grassy Knoll]

30. And The Hound Says " Iv'e Met Her"..

[MuseRider]

82. God I love the Hound

that line was perfect and Rory McCann does a fabulous job with this character!

[bettyellen]

31. Why is the mountain staring at that guy? Who is he?

Last edited Sun Aug 20, 2017, 10:38 PM - Edit history (1)

[NewJeffCT]

33. Run Forrest Run

I mean, Gendry...

[Baitball Blogger]

35. Starting late!

Love the way all the travelers are going over the way they wronged each other, and finding a reason to befriend each other.

But, I think Mormont's handing of the sword was a adieu.

[bettyellen]

36. Danny is wearing a nice icy colored ensemble! Nice!

[bettyellen]

38. Ack !! who just died?

[Baitball Blogger]

40. Giant sloth!

Two down already. The fire is coming to the hound! He's paralyzed!

Why is no one using Dragonstone?

[bettyellen]

39. My girlfriends back and there's gonna be trouble!

[NewJeffCT]

41. That was a horrific death

for one of Dany's dragons

[Baitball Blogger]

42. Aaahhhhhh!

Spoiler for me. I need to step out for another 45 minutes.

[bettyellen]

44. Oh man that was crazy!

[Baitball Blogger]

43. Why is Sansa revealing so much to Little Finger? Why?

[Baitball Blogger]

45. Someone explain why all but one zombie shattered?

[bettyellen]

46. I know there's different kinds of them and different things kill them? But yeah, I dunno.

HE BENT THE KNEE!!

[NewJeffCT]

47. the wights that they were battling

were all created by that white walker - except for one. Kind of hokey, but maybe that's their strategy in case a white walker dies

[tblue37]

70. The White Walker who raised them was killed by Jon's Valyrian steel. Apparently the

wight that didn't collapse was raised by a different White Walker--the king Walker, perhaps.I

That is why killing the White Walker king would destroy most of the zombie army--because he is the one who raised most of them.

BTW, the show calls the AS king the Night King, but in the book the Night's King (Notice the possessive) lived 8000 years earlier and is not alive now. (He was the Night's Watch commander who fell in love with a White Walker woman in the distant past.)

[Baitball Blogger]

71. He fell in love with a zombie?

Aren't White Walkers just a high level of zombie?

[tblue37]

73. No, I don't think they are. They are transformed beings, not raised dead ones.

Notice that they don't decompose, whereas the wights eventually do.

However, the nature of the WWs is fuzzy around the edges, especially since the show has gotten beyond the books. Also, even in book series with no show galloping ahead, and even when the writer doesn't take years between books, by the later books the author's conception has often matured or at least changed somewhat, so that there is some degree of contradiction or discontinuity between characters or points in the first book(s) and characters or points in the later book(s).

[NewJeffCT]

48. wow

I guess the Night King has upgraded his ride.

Dead Horse to Dead Dragon

[bettyellen]

50. I was so dying to say something about that! HA HA I read the spoilers...

[Yavin4]

52. Trump is rooting for the wights n/t

[NewJeffCT]

79. they're some very fine people

on their side, dontcha know?

[Baitball Blogger]

55. Damn. I think you're right.

[bettyellen]

49. A very cute Jon Snow video for you guys....

https://m.

[MuseRider]

51. My My

NOW we have Ice and Fire.

Catching my breath then on to packing for tomorrow. See y'all on the other side of the eclipse!

[underpants]

58. In Myrtle Beach. Should be 99% totality tomorrow.

People are pouring into the condo hotel we are staying at. Our stay just happened to coincide with the eclipse but I did get glasses for $2 at Lowes about two months ago. We got here on Saturday.

Lots of Canadian plates. No idea if it's just their vacation or it's the eclipse. The overhead interstate signs on I74 all the way down warned of eclipse traffic on Monday. Charleston will be 100%.

[MuseRider]

62. They are expecting a lot of people here

since it is a long totality. We are leaving very early to drive a little over 100 miles. Packing all kinds of stuff including a little can of gas because these little towns are not used to so much being used.

Have a great time watching!

[underpants]

64. Can't wait.

O)

[Liberal Veteran]

57. Hope the Night King doesn't make it to Highgarden.

If he resurrects Olenna Tyrell, things will get really scary.

[Baitball Blogger]

60. LOL!

I think I would love to see that!

[MuseRider]

63. Oh me too!

That would be awesome. Cersi would be in a LOT of trouble!

[Solly Mack]

65. Power out for hours. Just came back on. Have to watch now. Damn!

Won't read thread until after.

[Baitball Blogger]

67. Definitely don't read ahead.

Two twists that you don't want to see coming.

[Baitball Blogger]

66. I loved the ending.

Still not sure if Dany is more aunt than love-interest though. There were clues. I liked the reason she gave for rejecting "Dany" and Jon provided the right response. He is definitely falling for her and I don't see anyone else on the horizon. And I think she made an advance when she told him that she couldn't have children.

[Not Ruth]

83. She wants to break the wheel (speculation, not spoiler)

She can marry someone that can carry on her plan, perhaps with his own children after she dies

[Baitball Blogger]

68. Loved the way it looked like Daenarys was flying to King's Landing, just to double

back to save Jon and his group of Merry frozen men. Nice twist.

[Baitball Blogger]

69. Arya is scaring me.

Her thirst for loyalty and vengeance is counter-productive. It's a writer's law that once you describe the gun on the mantle, you have to use it by the end of the chapter.

So, she talked about Sansa's face. What could that mean?

I do see a sad twist where Little Finger succeeds in killing Sansa, and Arya takes her place out of regret and revenge in order to kill Little Finger. Lord knows he would deserve a painful end.

[Not Ruth]

84. Arya and Sansa disappointed me in this episode

Given all that they have seen and what they know of Little Finger, they are not questioning the timely appearance of the letter? They are not discussing it's source. Jumping right into passive aggressive threats?

[underpants]

72. Just GOT the report from my wife. OH MY GOT? A zombie dragon?

Okay I went to the well too often there.

Really? Zombie Dragon?

[Iggo]

74. When you read that there's zombies and also that there's dragons...

....it only takes a few years before you realize there are going to zombie dragons.

[Solly Mack]

75. OK. Actually watching now. Still not read thread.

Seems all the men are bonding beyond the wall. For now.

Arya, stop being stupid.

Admittedly, I have thought everything you are saying. every single word.

Still, stop being stupid, Arya. Please.

Poor Sansa.

Poor Arya.

Littlefinger MUST die.

I freaking love Tormund! "You do know her" (said with such awe, respect, and love for Brienne)

The Hound does have sad eyes.

I'm afraid to watch more. I'm afraid someone I like will die tonight.

I'm tired of the good guys dying.

I'm tired of bad winning - in TV and in real life.

I'm in the wrong mood tonight to watch GOT, I think.

It's supposed to be an escape.

Tyrion is taking a risk but I think he's right.

Tyrion is right. The succession matters.

And back to the North, beyond the wall...where death waits.



I feel it coming.

I may turn off the telly.

Red-shirts dying so far.

Damn.

Sansa - don't be stupid. Though that it is your fall-back position. And you are listening to Littlefinger, which makes you dumber than dirt. See? You're listening to Littlefinger plot to murder your sister using Brienne.


Sansa, Sansa, Sansa. Perhaps you need to die tonight. Idiot.

Oh, my. A battle.

A very strange, albeit handy, battle. It did leave one to capture. How handy is that?

The one alive, so to speak, is alive because the one main dead guy in the battle didn't make him.

I think, anyway.

They better hurry. The dead are coming.

They need Michonne to show them how to capture and walk the dead.

Look at all the dead people.

Golly!

That's unfortunate.



Gendry can fly, can't he?

Get up, Gendry! Get up, silly man!

That's a fine pickle they are in, init?

Kicking the dead doesn't help, Hound. Just saying.

Dude died. He'll turn. Burn him now. Please burn him now.

There you go.

Send help...someone...anyone.

I knew I should have turned off my TV.

Jon and the Big Man Dead fellow again.

I'd rather they sent dragons than have anyone else die.

Did that raven note really come from KL or from Littlefinger?

I don't trust any messages.

Sansa is stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Brienne is ever so much smarter than Sansa.

Yeah, someone kill Sansa and put everyone out of the misery of having to watch Sansa being stupid.

I truly dislike Sansa and each time I get to feeling a little bit better about her, she goes and does it again - act stupid. She'll never have a good excuse to me. Never.

Silly Hound. Look at what you've done.

Com'on dragons! Come now!

Well, fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!

I knew it!

I should have stopped watching.

Poor Dragon.

Poor Daenerys.

Poor Jon.

Except Jon isn't dead.

Ha!

Ha!

Ha!

To be fair, Benjen was already dead.

She's worried about Jon.

She's mourning her child.

There's Jon.

OK. What is that idiot up to?

Stupid, stupid, stupid, Sansa.

Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Always stupid.

Always.

Arya - don't be stupid either, please.

Sansa can't be redeemed if she dies.

And I want her to redeem herself. I do. Mostly. Sort of.

Don't be stupid, Sansa. She let you live.

Please, please, please, Arya - don't be stupid.

Killing Sansa would be a betrayal of your family. A betrayal of your father. Please remember that.

Ick. Dany and Jon contemplating incest while people cheer it. Gross.

Really gross. Sorry - but it's gross. Gross. Gross. Gross.

Nothing romantic about homemade sin.

Poor dragon. Hope it is Viserion - since Viserys was such an asshole. Would be fitting - since one of them got changed into a dead dragon, it should be the one named after that cruel fuck.

Because Rhaegal belongs to Jon, dammit!

Dear Arya and Sansa - stop allowing your chains to be yanked by Littlefinger, you stupid, stupid, Stark sisters.

That's how your enemies defeat you!

Well, OK. I'm done.

[regnaD kciN]

77. Uh...

I'm afraid to watch more. I'm afraid someone I like will die tonight.

...why should this be different from every other episode?

[Solly Mack]

94. That's true! But it's coming to a close soon and that's a dangerous time for the good guys.

[shanny]

81. We'll, at least now we don't have to figure out

who the third dragon rider was going to be.
.
.
.
.
But what about the prophecy?

[Solly Mack]

93. Guess it's time to shatter prophecies?

Or maybe the dragon turns again?

[Baitball Blogger]

86. Benjen was already dead?

I thought he high-tailed back from the wall and sacrificed himself?

Well, if Benjen became a wight and still retained his human qualities, then others can be turned as well?

[Solly Mack]

92. I always thought so. He had turned somehow but with his human senses.

He couldn't pass the wall, like the dead couldn't.

Maybe the children got it right, finally?

[Kablooie]

76. Since they've passed the books the story seems thinner than before.

It feels like it's being rushed compared to the previous seasons.
When Martin's books were the inspiration there was a complex tapestry of characters and motives that would take time to weave together but now they all seem somewhat simple minded and more direct. Easier to follow perhaps but not as satisfying as before.

Does anyone else feel that Way?

[NewJeffCT]

80. I felt it started last season

with the rush towards the end. With all the material they have, it could easily have been 10 seasons with 10 full episodes each season.

[Yavin4]

87. Yep. It seems very dumbed down, but blame GRRM

By not putting out books 6 and 7, he let other people take his narrative away from him. The only upside is that now he has some room to finish his story without letting the show do it.

[NewJeffCT]

90. not sure it's dumbed down

as much as it's really condensed - almost like a Cliff Notes version of Books 6 and 7. Benioff & Weiss have been working from an outline Martin gave them of the ending, but I think they're racing to get their ASAP.

While I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei ends up blowing up the Sept of Baelor, I doubt we'd lose 80-90% of her enemies in one fell swoop like we did in that moment.

And, really, Jon stranded on an island North of the Wall.. while stranded there, Gendry has time to make a heroic Marathon like run back to Eastwatch, where they send a raven to Dragonstone. The raven goes all the way from Eastwatch to Dragonstone (hundreds of miles). Dany then decides to fly north with her dragons to rescue Jon and company?

Unless they were less than an hour out from Eastwatch when they first met the wights/white walkers? Then, Gendry makes his run to Eastwatch and they release the raven within 15-20 minutes? The raven then flies hundreds of miles to Dragonstone at up to 50mph (I just googled the air speed velocity of a raven, and 50mph is realistic, and ravens can fly 500 or more miles in a day (record is over 700 miles in a day). Dany then decides to fly away immediately and dragons maybe move faster than ravens?

So, one hour run back to Eastwatch
Raven flies maybe 400 miles in 8 hours
Dragons cover the 420 miles in 4 hours maybe?

[NewJeffCT]

96. Follow-Up

while there was much criticism of the episode in terms of how fast the raven could have gotten to Dany and the dragons back to Jon and company, there was a good point made in defense of the show.

The Night King seems to have at least somewhat similar powers to Bran in terms of seeing the past and the future. (He was in one of Bran's dreams and the old 3 Eyed Crow/Raven then realized the white walkers were coming for him...) It is possible that the NK did not go all out in attacking Jon and company because he knew the dragons were coming to the rescue?

I mean, if the NK could take down a flying dragon with that ice lance, he would have been able to pick off the guys on the island with an ice lance as well. and, I'm sure some of the other WWs could have joined in with smaller spears.

[Yavin4]

99. Would it have been better plotting to have Dany go to the Wall with her dragons

from the start?

[NewJeffCT]

100. Yes

if Dany can get to the Wall and beyond that quickly, why not just fly north of the wall and snag a wight herself?

[Baitball Blogger]

102. Dany did not believe Jon. She just humored him based on Tyrion's advice.

When she and Jon have their face to face she told him not to be sorry for the loss of the dragon, because she had to see the WW/wight swarm for herself to believe it.

So, what does it mean about fire and ice? Does Dany represent fire and Jon, ice? What new power do they get if they combine forces?

[Baitball Blogger]

97. Maybe the raven and dragons had good tail winds?

[Yavin4]

98. It's waaaaayyy dumbed down.

The whole Suicide Squad plan seemed so contrived and forced. Felt like a D.C. Comics movie.

[Not Ruth]

101. Perhaps the raven was drafting an unladen swallow

[Proud Liberal Dem]

104. African or European?

[RandySF]

78. Dany and Jon are SO gonna do it!

[NewJeffCT]

85. yep

the last 10 minutes really ratcheted up the sexual tension there.

[bench scientist]

88. Ugh. They are Aunt and nephew.

Personally I hope one of them dies before the end. Everyone has plot armor now though so unlikely.

[NewJeffCT]

91. I doubt both will survive

Martin's ending is supposed to be bittersweet, so if Dany wins the Iron Throne, she likely will have lost most of those she cared about

[Solly Mack]

95. I got the feeling Jon was a goner tonight in the very end.

[Drahthaardogs]

105. Here's how I guess it ends...

Danaerys and Jon become an item, incest and all - they are Targaryns so it doesn't matter.

The Wall falls, maybe when zombie Viserion flys over it? Jon learns of his parents real identity somehow - probably Sam. Jon now rides other dragon

They bring the wight back to Kings Lansing. Jamie gets it, Cersei not so much. Jamie kills her so their army can help fight the dead.

Dead Army reaches KL epic battle ensues. Humans get ass kicked. Jon has Rhaegul killed underneath h, bit he lives.

Dany realizing desparity of situation Kamikaze Drogon into Knight's King astride Zombie Viserion. Dany Knight's King and dragons die.

Dead army disintergrates. Jon sits iron throne without a queen.

[NewJeffCT]

106. My guess

next episode, Jon and Dany have passionate sex and fall in love.

Some time early next season, the truth is revealed to Jon about his parents. The dead are marching south and seem unstoppable. Jon, his Stark morals being what they are, still loves Dany but realizes that incest is wrong. Jon plunges Longclaw into his own broken heart - Dany comes in and sees him dead - she draws forth Longclaw from his heart, but Jon's blood has now rechristened it Lightbringer and she is revalead to be Azor Ahai, the Prince that was Promised. She uses Lightbringer and stabs the Night King with it, killing him.

She then sits the Iron Throne, but has lost all of her loves - Drogo, Daario, Ser Jorah (assuming he dies along the way) and now Jon Snow - and is alone in the world. Samwell Tarly becomes the Grand Maester.

Not sure what happens with Tyrion. I'm guessing Arya lives and Sansa dies.

[Drahthaardogs]

107. But Jon is obviously Ice and Fire

This is his story. I don't see how he dies before the last episode

[Baitball Blogger]

108. Here is what I think:

The reason why certain magical traits run strong in the Targareyns is because of the incest. Their immunity to fire is a mutation. It is also possible that only someone with the same gene structure can impregnate Dany. If Dany becomes pregnant, Jon would never leave her side.

I don't see Jon freaking out and killing himself over incest with a person, who claims she can't have children.

[Nevernose]

118. Dany has to die, plot wise

They'll build it up so we think Cersei is a goner, and switch to killing Daenarys at the last second.

It was foreshadowed in this episode during the talk with Tyrion. She's a conqueror but not a ruler, and makes a poor choice for a new dynasty because she can't have children. Tyrion might even help make it happen. First duty to Westeros, best for changing the future, etc.

The dragons work for Jon afterwards because he smells right.

[Iggo]

89. Ew.

[NewJeffCT]

103. Last night's episode was a record-setting 71 minutes

longest Game of Thrones episode in history.

However, that record will only last a week. The final is a movie-length 81 minutes (the original Toy Story was also 81 minutes)

[Solly Mack]

109. Question for the book readers.

Are you a little disappointed in this season and how it is playing out?

I am.

It all seems light in development and rushed in delivery.

The characters are beginning to be less than what they were intended to be. If that makes sense.

I worry that GRRM might base the rest of his writing on the show and a book series I've invested so much time in - so much pleasurable time - will now become as light and rushed as the show.

Might be a popular show and I'm sure it's made him a lot of money - but I am feeling let down.

No, GRRM doesn't owe me anything, except kind of he does - why bother creating this world, and giving us such wonderful characters, only to punk out at the end? Hasn't he already reduced the number of books?

He formed an unspoken contract with us as readers - he would tell this magnificent tale and we would patiently wait for the telling - expecting always the best the tale could be - and we'd not only wait and devote ourselves to the waiting, but we'd pay for the pleasure of reading his words and with the chunks of our own lives by waiting.

Yes, writing the tale has taken a large part of his life - and it's always nice to bask in the success of one's labor - but - BUT - he asked us to come along on this journey and now it seems as if he's moving on instead of staying with the group. And not really moving on - he seems to be forgetting the group of people he made a promise to - and isn't writing a multi-series novel a promise of sort - not just to us but to the characters he created?

For those characters to be reduced to automation, so to speak - losing depth. The same depth that drew us in and got us hooked. Characters that challenged the imagination and had us craving more.

See? Like I said earlier. I'm in a mood regarding GOT. Can't seem to shake it.

Maybe it's just me.

[LexVegas]

110. The show is like fan fiction of the real story. Thats how I view it.

I enjoy it for what it is. Many of the best parts of the book have already been twisted beyond forgiveness by the show, but it doesn't matter. The books are canon.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

111. The writers have pretty much been on their own content-wise since S5/S6

They have Martin's general endgame in mind and are working towards it as best as they can. S5 was a mess (except for Hardhome) but the last two seasons have actually been pretty good IMHO even if somewhat unbelievable at times. I don't understand the decision to make S7 only 7 episodes as it would have been better to slow things down and expand the season over 10 episodes like every other season but this is the choice they're making, so we just have to roll with it.

The only way we'll ever get to compare what happens in the books vs. the show is if we *ever* actually get more books.

[LexVegas]

112. I agree. There have been some unforgivable (to me) changes from the material they do have.

Like I said, it is like good fan fiction to me. I hope to see the books completed in the next 10 years.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

113. 10 Years?

You're an optimist LOL

[Solly Mack]

114. I'd been trying to view it that way... until this episode.

Maybe it was just the episode.

[LexVegas]

115. It almost lost me when they killed of Selmy so nonchalantly.

Perhaps the greatest knight in the history of Westeros. Should have had a better death.

[Yavin4]

116. You are not alone. I share your sentiments and feelings.

The show went completely off the rails on Sunday night. It became as dumb as your typical super hero action movie, but that's understandable. HBO is taking big losses with this show, and they need to get it completed soon.

It's clear that the direction of the show will be completely different from GRRM's vision which is a good thing. GRRM now has more than enough room to create his narrative and not let the show spoil everything. A lot of the major players--the Tyrells, the Martells, the Boltons, Stannis, etc.--are still alive in the books. GRRM can do whatever he wants to do with them. He's in a totally different universe.

GRRM owes his fortune to this series and nothing else. Without this series and his hard core, dedicated fan base, he would be just another writer some where. He owes his fans a conclusion to the series, and he should not be focusing on anything else until its done.

[Solly Mack]

117. I hope he takes it as the freedom to go forward and complete the characters in the way

they deserve.

Thank you!

[NewJeffCT]

119. Benioff and Weiss

know the fates of all the characters from Martin and I doubt they strayed from it too dramatically, and I believe they also have a general outline of the ending.

That said, they've definitely condensed a lot the past two years and dispensed with quite a few minor characters. And, WTF was going on with Dorne?(I'm not a big fan of the Dorne storyline in the books, either, but it was several notches below that on the show)