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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsGame of Thrones 7.1 "Dragonstone" - season premiere (spoiler alert)
In the Season 7 premiere, Jon organizes the defense of the North; Cersei seeks to even the odds; and Daenerys comes home. #WinterisHereNewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)MuseRider
(34,095 posts)but I have to. 😣. Big family doings tonight of all nights. I will be staying far away from my phone but however late we get back in town I will be watching.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)this is pretty cool, and a ton of work
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4700724/Game-Thrones-scenes-portrayed-77-metre-long-tapestry.html
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)There have also been great scenes of goodness, kindness, and heroism that I guess got lost in the shuffle.
Or maybe I just remember those scenes because they particularly stand out against all the bleak butchery.
Maybe that's why this show works so well. When the good stuff happens--whatever it is--it's REALLY good.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Game changer for women on TV?
http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/game-of-thrones/news/a833250/gwendoline-christie-game-of-thrones-changed-platform-women-television/
Where we are?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/watching/game-of-thrones-season-7-premiere.html
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/game-of-thrones-returns-for-season-7
Favorite fan theories?
http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/14/game-of-thrones-cast-fan-theories/
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)How the GoT will be won
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/07/how-will-the-game-of-thrones-be-won/533727/
Why is Game of Thrones so popular?
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/07/drawn-game-thrones-170714130659046.html
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)How did I miss that?
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Thanks Trump!
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Will comment after all is said and done.
Team Arya!
(and Jon)
(and Bran)
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(Sansa - we'll see)
mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)Save the Imp!
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Now back to the show. Season finale..and then...Yes!!!!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)in the show and in the books
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Jon should marry Lady Lyanna Mormont once she gets several years older. She's got the right name.
Daenerys need not think to keep the incest habit going.
Though Tyrion might be willing.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)for Jon. My guess is that is Targaryen parentage will eventually be revealed which won't be a good thing.
Since it is most likely that Dany can't have kids, probably marrying her nephew is not the worst thing.
At some point Tyrion is going to become a liability for Dany. Patricide and regicide (at this point you never be able to prove otherwise) will prevent Tyrion from ever winning the support of the Lannister faction.
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)It's made a point in the books that marriage within the family is no big thing and was, in fact, a tradition.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 17, 2017, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)
Lots of hints for that happening in the show - and some in the books.
And Jaime will only be allowed to live by the grace of the remaining Starks. Even Tyrion knows Jaime owes them a death. Though Tyrion will want Jaime to live in the end. He still loves him, but we'll see. The books are one thing - the TV show another.
No one on the show wants a single Lannister left alive. In the books - meh. A few might. Doubtful. The fate of the family Lannister is found in the song they are so proud of - The Rains of Castamere. It comes home to bite them in the butt.
The Lannisters are nothing (on the show). They are over. Tyrion is the only part Lannister that matters. Part Lannister assuming he is the 3rd head of the dragon. His mother was also a Lannister by birth. Tywin married his cousin. But the Mad King could very well be Tyrion's actual father, and most likely is.
No head of the dragon has been raised by their rightful father. Not Dany. Not Jon. Not Tyrion. I think that's part of the theme. (from the books) Or mothers either - and that matters.
Jon is a Targaryen by blood - but by raising and conscience he is Eddard Stark's son - a man of the the North and the North frowns on incest that close.
Tyrion was raised by Tywin and he is his son - by raising, training, and expectations - but Tyrion is free from most of all that and in more ways than one. But the training remains - the tactician remains.
Dany had no real father figures. Just a series of men who used her for their own gain. With the exception of Drogo...and until Ser Barristan Selmy - and eventually Tyrion - she had no real positive father figures...or brothers who wanted to help without gain.
As Dany probably can't have kids - she makes for a bad regent. She shouldn't wear the crown - that's one of the decisions a leader has to make for the good of the realm - as Tyrion keeps reminding her. Sacrifice for the good of the realm. They'll need heirs and if she can't produce them, the result will be a broken dynasty with factions fighting for power. That means more war. Dany keeps saying she wants to end war.
Jon could marry her in name only - and still have a powerful Northern mate. Tyrion could marry his sister (Dany) in name only, and still have a mate from around Casterly Rock that offers an alliance...and heirs by Jon and Tyrion - BUT even then - as the Targaryen history (in the books) shows - you need one indisputable heir to keep the dynasty strong. They've fought and killed each other over that point and all because of the incest...and all the bastards..clamoring for power. A good ruler would prevent that from the onset.
Except, Jon isn't a bastard. He is the actual rightful Targaryen heir. It will prove out that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. Otherwise, the King's Guard, especially Arthur Dayne, would have never been at the Tower of Joy protecting Lyanna and her child. Dayne would only remain behind from battle to protect the future King. That is the only reason he'd ever allow Rhaegar to ride out without him. Ser Arthur Dayne could not have done it any other way. On that much of his character, all agree. Even Eddard Stark.
I tend to talk GOT in terms of the books and not the show. The books matter over the show. To my thinking anyway.
Though that wasn't the case with my remark about Jon and Lady Mormont. I just really like her character on the show. On the show. The book is different, of course.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Smickey
(3,305 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 19, 2017, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)
I have not read the books but he (Tyrion) would be a good choice as a "rider" along with Bran (you will never walk again but you will fly) Stark.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)One would think you'd have to be a Targaryen to be able to ride a dragon, so that's
Daenerys, Jon Snow (who we now know is a Targaryen) and someone to ride the 3rd dragon, who?...
(some people think Tyrion is a Targaryen also).
Catmusicfan
(816 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)till we get to season 7
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)can't wait. Watching Lady Mormont kick ass right now
Catmusicfan
(816 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)in her revenge. Wow! That was huge.
herding cats
(19,558 posts)Arya is my favorite character.
politicat
(9,808 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)she learned well with Jaqen
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)Don't tell me anything!!!!!!!!!!!!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)surprising start
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)Arya begins her revenge streak. And it's everything that was promised!
Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #21)
herding cats This message was self-deleted by its author.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)she is getting better at playing the game.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)with some of the Lannister rank and file?
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)You think she's just playing along?
herding cats
(19,558 posts)The hound is back again.
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)until I read it on Twitter
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)A good beginning to set up the end.
Shall we begin?
A HERETIC I AM
(24,362 posts)George R. Martin kills people.
By the bushel.
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)So, is it possible that they have a use? i.e. is it possible that they can handle dragons without being burned to a crisp?
still_one
(92,061 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)little girl with the deformed face lived. But, that family has been eliminated, which is why the castle is vacant?
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)while I don't believe he 100% abandoned it in the books, he basically went "all in" when he sailed North to assist the Night's Watch at the Wall. All of his soldiers, his family and all the supporting crew went along with him. I think in the books they knew about the Dragonglass there and he did have people digging for it, but it was only a skeleton crew of people.
Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)Did scouts inform her that it would be available?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,684 posts)She doesn't yet know that she's near the dragon stone mine. Sam is going to have to hurry up and empty those bedpans so he can get time to tell Jon.
VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)exboyfil
(17,862 posts)This could have been a strategic mistake for Dany. If Euron is able to destroy the troop transports before they make landfall on the mainland, then she is in trouble.
As a base of operations though, an island has some distinct advantages.
avebury
(10,951 posts)If so, then he didn't die in Season 1.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)And ser Mormont I believe.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Iain Glenn has a distinct voice.
avebury
(10,951 posts)and that he really didn't burn to death.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Still adore Arya.
She needs to ride north and not south. As capable as she is, and there's no denying she is, she's not ready to take Cersei on alone.
If she happens to ride south in Ed Sheeran's face I'm going to name the shark Fluffy.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Catmusicfan
(816 posts)I thought it was going one way and then WOW!!!!!!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)then, it dawned on me
Gothmog
(144,945 posts)politicat
(9,808 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)That Arya survives.
I had typed out several paragraphs but most of it book spoilers. So I deleted.
Because what is most important to me is that Arya survives.
But I doubt she will.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)both Arya and Sansa making it to the end - I can see one or the other, but not both.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)either Jamie or Robin Arryn.
Jamie if the Lannisters are not entirely destroyed. Robin Arryn to hold the Vale to the North.
Outside shot that Lyanna Mormont marries Robin Arryn.
The feud will eventually end with some alliance marriages. That is unless the White Walkers win.
Given how the humans treat each other on the show, maybe that would be the best result.
It would be fun if Robin Arryn marries Cersei Lannister. That poor boy.
politicat
(9,808 posts)It actually doesn't make much dynastic sense to marry Lyanna to Robin -- they're both only, eldest surviving children. Their estates do not abut, so for at least a decade, they either have to live apart or travel between the two seats, because both the Vale and Bear Island are used to hands-on administration. This is part of why the Freys end up being so influential -- because they have so many subsequent children, they can marry into other houses without risking their own dynasty.
Which doesn't mean stupid marriages aren't possible, but it would still be stupid.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)She could have a caretaker until her child comes of age. Her leige Jon would be supportive. It would bond one of the Great Houses to him. Who better to be the caretaker than the Onion Knight.
politicat
(9,808 posts)It's not a step up if she has to, ya know, live with the literal whiny-ass titty baby. Which she would have to do for a few years -- she's 10? 12? She controls her own fate right now. She's the regent in her own right.
Davos does have his own holdings. They're not huge, but they're his. Being made a steward is actually a demotion -- it takes him out of the owner class and puts him back in the employee class. Promotion would be handing him Karstark or Umber and making Alice or Ned his ward. (Which would probably be better for them; he seems to be an excellent foster father. But given that Lyanna and Bran have been allowed to master their own fates, doing so to either Alice or Ned or both would be problematic.)
The Arryns are pretty much pruned to death. Robin is the last one; all of Jon Arryn's cousins/nieces/nephews are dead. If Robin dies without issue, the Vale will be up for grabs, and it will depend who is on the High Throne.
Which is the terrifying part of aristocracy - so much power and responsibility in such young hands is a real possibility.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)But that probably won't happen.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Openly using The Faceless Men's abilities to advance her agenda. They will shut that down eventually.
You might think that the Iron Bank of Braavros may have a contract in place on Cersei. Arya may be doing their will without even knowing it.
Of course the Frey stop was totally self seeking for Arya unless the confusion and need to move support northward is part of the plan to isolate Cersei.
My guess is she never gets to Cersei.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Ser Gregor is on her list as well. I'm guessing that ZombieGregor can't be killed via poison...
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)I think he comes in play as Cersei's constant bodyguard. You would think Arya would try to approach Cersei as a trusted handmaiden/servant.
Gregor could be on the list since his troops killed Lommy, but I don't think he is a high priority. Gregor was also a reaver and torturer in the Riverlands.
The Boltons would be on the list, but they are already taken care of.
When did we last see Ilyn Payne? The man definitely took too much pleasure in his work.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)had to leave the show due to a serious bout with cancer. It was supposedly terminal, but he recovered.
I think the show had Bronn take over training Jamie
In the books, Ser Gregor was definitely on the list.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)I disagree about the Frey slaughter. That was a conflation of things that happen in the books, though there was no mass poisoning.
I hope she is deterred from her mission in the south. (on the show)
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)The White Walkers I gather are another matter. Could they be a representation of Climate Change - The common challenge of all of Martin's world?
It appears The Wall is vulnerable and Sam may have a big part in the future.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)the whole war that brought down the Targaryens was because Rhaegar Targaryen ran off with Lyanna Stark. Robert Baratheon was smitten with Lyanna and said it was kidnapping and rape of Lyanna and rallied the Crownlands against the Targaryens, and swept up The North and the Vale with him (because of his friendship with Ned Stark and Jon Arryn)
But, Tywin Lannister was a very stern, overly strict and domineering father figure - the opposite of his own father, who was seen as soft and weak. Cersei, Jamie and Tyrion are what they are because of how Tywin raised the three of them. Jamie and Cersei both have aspects of their father in their personalities, but Cersei doesn't have the wisdom of Tywin, hence Joffrey turns out to be a monster and Tommen seems to be another shallow weakling like Tywin's father?
The same with the Starks - Ned is like his father, and Robb Stark is like his dead - dignified, honorable, serious... Arya has some of her wild and carefree aunt Lyanna in her, while Sansa is like her mom.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)Once we divide into power families, we get this crap. Look to the Bushes and the Clintons. They get on ok. But the rest of us are divided into hate groups. And everybody pays the price for this idiocy.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)With all the ugly and decent family/human dynamics in the squishy middle.
It's like an ever evolving, ever enduring creation myth. To me, anyway.
The White Walkers are a specie of being, much like the Children of the Forest, tied to the most basic makeup of that creation.
They are malignant, as they consume life and pass on an imitation of it. But they, too, are fighting for their survival - and dominance.
Only, their dominance means no more life. (as we conceive life)
GRR Martin needs to write more on them but he seems happy enough to bask in the attention of the show's popularity than to actually finish the tale properly. (but I'm not bitter!)
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)He can't be rushed. Whether or not he has the end in mind we just don't know.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)Just playing.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)Spent a couple of weeks reading up and investigating articles and watching most of the series. I still haven't watched season three - and never will. But I've read plots summaries on Wikia and tried researching characters. Thankfully many of exited thanks to relentless bloodshed. But the undead are a nuisance and a conundrum.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)I have a curious about them.
politicat
(9,808 posts)GRRM's wife loves her. Arya may be the only character with that much plot armor.
If Arya dies, it won't be a fridging or waste.
Solly Mack
(90,758 posts)I had heard before that his wife loves the character. I hope that's enough for him.
She needs to survive. She IS the Starks.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I didn't see it listed tonight on HBO.
They really need to get somebody like Chris Hardwick and have a live show on right afterwards
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,088 posts)HBO dumped them apparently.