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Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 04:50 AM Apr 2016

I have an automotive question. Actually a problem. A big, big problem

1992 Chevy S10. It's practically an antique. It's also my daily driver. No heater, window is stuck in the down position, paint is coming off in places, but the running gear has been ultra-reliable until now. It has nearly 100K miles on it, which isn't much for its age. I rarely drive it more than a couple of miles a day, and never out of town.

I always keep the oil level topped up, but I've been noticing low oil pressure at idle for a while now, and last week it got noticeably worse. Oil pressure when cold was fine, but as the engine warmed up, it would drop nearly to zero. At stops, I'd throw it into neutral and rev the engine to keep the pressure up. Last Thursday was the culmination. As I pulled into my driveway, I heard/felt a....stuttering sensation, I guess. For no more than 5 seconds, then I got to my parking spot and shut it off. Went out and cranked it again a few hours later. Oil pressure came up, but it was very noisy. At that point I called the garage and had them tow it in.

The noise when I cranked it up the second time was not something I could describe accurately-I'm no mechanic, and my state of mind at the time was not one to listen calmly and objectively. But my vehicle is usually very quiet on startup, and this was very loud. In among the other noise was what sounded like a knock, and from my googling, I've learned this would be very bad news.

Best case scenario: Oil pump going out. Expensive, but fixable. Worst case, bad rod bearings, indicated by the knock, if that's what it was. That would mean a rebuild or new engine, which would cost more than the vehicle is worth. The smart move would be to write this one off and get something else, but I can't afford anything new or even recently used-Anything I could afford would be either super-high mileage or have other problems, and I'd not be significantly better off than before. My best option may still be to fix this one, although most people would view that as a foolish choice.

I haven't heard from the garage since they towed it in. I am hoping that is a positive sign, that they've found something they could fix without contacting me to see if I really want to do this. OTOH I may just mean they haven't gotten to it yet since it was an unscheduled job and the weekend was approaching.

If anyone has been through this or is automotively minded, I'd love to hear your thoughts, But mainly I guess I'm just venting. I've been torturing myself with youtubes of engine noises, and most of them are bad news I hope this will get some feedback. I think this forum doesn't get as much traffic as the main one.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I have an automotive question. Actually a problem. A big, big problem (Original Post) Ex Lurker Apr 2016 OP
I'm sorry, but I can identify. I drive a 2001 Pontiac which I love, but I know it's a matter of time Rhiannon12866 Apr 2016 #1
A relative would be able to just forget about it over the weekend and take whatever comes. Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #2
I worry about my car, too. Rhiannon12866 Apr 2016 #3
You might try this quickesst Apr 2016 #4
Thanks, that's one of the sites I've been reading Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #13
Good quickesst Apr 2016 #17
Last sentence of first paragraph is telling... Wounded Bear Apr 2016 #5
Same here Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #12
I once went to an oil change store, and they had me start my engine with no oil added. Kokonoe Apr 2016 #6
If it was dry of oil, I would be less worried Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #14
the engine is a goner and frankly, not worth repairing. uncle ray Apr 2016 #7
What I liked most about my early 80's c-10 edgineered Apr 2016 #9
To elaborate on post 7 above - edgineered Apr 2016 #8
Probably not worth the repair Major Nikon Apr 2016 #10
Understood, however, these vehicles are known for having low oil pressure at warm idle Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #11
food for thought NJCher Apr 2016 #15
Had a boss once, sr engineer... Wounded Bear Apr 2016 #16
I didn't know that was even possible Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #19
Too bad "The Car Guys" on NPR are gone. Laffy Kat Apr 2016 #18
I had a 1992 S10 rurallib Apr 2016 #20
Look around for a forum or "group" for people who own the make of car- there will be loads of bettyellen Apr 2016 #21
I've been looking around on some those sites Ex Lurker Apr 2016 #22
Rough day- I am so sorry! Try to get some sleep soon and process the advice from here and maybe bettyellen Apr 2016 #23
The low oil pressure indicates the engine is shot. Sorry. jmowreader Apr 2016 #24

Rhiannon12866

(204,494 posts)
1. I'm sorry, but I can identify. I drive a 2001 Pontiac which I love, but I know it's a matter of time
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 05:16 AM
Apr 2016

I'm not a mechanic, but I can sympathize and kick your thread. And I also know garages close early on weekends. Where I take my car, they're only open till noon on Saturday and closed on Sunday. When my car was towed there on a Friday night once, they were just getting to it on Monday.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
2. A relative would be able to just forget about it over the weekend and take whatever comes.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 05:24 AM
Apr 2016

Not me. I didn't sleep at all Thursday night, slept a few hours Friday night, and here I am again up all night. Google is the devil

Rhiannon12866

(204,494 posts)
3. I worry about my car, too.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 05:31 AM
Apr 2016

It's been a great car, but it's starting to rust and I can never get another Pontiac. I just had it into the dealership for repairs last week, then on Friday I had a flat tire.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
4. You might try this
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 08:58 AM
Apr 2016
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/#/forumsite/20875

Takes a few minutes to register. Post your problems in the proper forum and wait 4 answers. You will be surprised at the amount of knowledge truck enthusiasts have concerning their favorite vehicles. Chances are someone has had the exact same experience as you. Knowledgeable people and they're not trying to make a buck off of you. Good luck and if the s10 doesn't work out buy a used Toyota truck. Check out Craigslist.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
13. Thanks, that's one of the sites I've been reading
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:22 PM
Apr 2016

Apparently this is not uncommon, because there are a lot of posts about similar things.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
17. Good
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 03:09 PM
Apr 2016

I was actually serious about looking into a Toyota truck. Couple of years ago I gave $2,500 cash for my 1995 T100 closing in on 250,000 miles. I wouldn't be afraid to jump in it right now and drive to California and back. I'm in Louisiana. One of the most solid reliable trucks built. Luck to you.

Wounded Bear

(58,574 posts)
5. Last sentence of first paragraph is telling...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 09:52 AM
Apr 2016

Last edited Sun Apr 3, 2016, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Short hop driving is the worst thing you can do to your vehicle. You need to get it out on the open road several times a month at highway speeds for at least a half hour or so. Not so true for the modern computerized ones, but on older cars, it ain't good to just drive it a couple of miles a day.

Best of luck on the repair. I know a lot of people will say don't bother on an older vehicle, but IMHO it's not just a financial decision.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
12. Same here
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:21 PM
Apr 2016

A rebuild or swap would cost more than it's worth. OTOH it would still be cheaper than even a bottom end used vehicle, which would come with its own, possibly hidden, issues. At least with this one I know what I'm dealing with.

Kokonoe

(2,485 posts)
6. I once went to an oil change store, and they had me start my engine with no oil added.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 09:56 AM
Apr 2016

It shook and rattled, they said turn it off. They put oil in it, and it was fine.

I think when oil is restored it may be OK.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
14. If it was dry of oil, I would be less worried
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:24 PM
Apr 2016

This had plenty of oil the whole time, which means something was preventing the oil from getting where it's needed. I hope you are right, though. Thanks for reading and answering.

uncle ray

(3,155 posts)
7. the engine is a goner and frankly, not worth repairing.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 10:01 AM
Apr 2016

when you factor in the other issues with the vehicle, i'd suggest scrapping it and getting a newer vehicle. if your shop could find a low mile junkyard engine for dirt cheap you could get it back on the road fairly cheap, but still more that i'd spend on that vehicle. a cheap($300) engine and free labor is the only way i'd consider the repair viable. if you pay a shop to do it, it will cost several times what the truck is worth. the reason you don't see many around anymore is because they were disposable vehicles that got used up and thrown away, yours is now used up. instead of going newer, you could consider going older and finding a 73-87 c-10 which are still easy to find, as are parts. they are a good platform to learn your own repairs on, which is necessary when utilizing dirt-cheap transportation.

i've had several s-10s over the years, fwiw. my current daily driver is a 1966 c-10 updated with newer drivetrain, suspension, etc. from a 80's c-10.

edgineered

(2,101 posts)
9. What I liked most about my early 80's c-10
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:44 AM
Apr 2016

Not only did it get lighter in weight as the fenders, quarterpanels, etc dissolved away, but eventually one could almost look through it to see what was on the other side! All kidding aside though, they do last and are easy to maintain.

edgineered

(2,101 posts)
8. To elaborate on post 7 above -
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:37 AM
Apr 2016

and your best case scenario of the oil pump being bad - The oil pump is the most reliable component in the engine, it sits in oil and always lubricated. Every other part of the engine starves for oil before the pump does.

If you can get by with a car I can make a suggestion. I was trying to sell an '01 Hyundai Elantra with 85k miles on it. Because that generation had such bad paint (the black ones) no one would buy it, even for $600, and that was in Orlando - a huge market. Look on craigslist or other sites for one of those with low mileage. Compare the prices of white ones to black ones - it may be one of the best deals going.

Major Nikon

(36,817 posts)
10. Probably not worth the repair
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:39 PM
Apr 2016

Even if you replace the oil pump, my guess is that there's significant wear damage from moving parts that went dry. Low oil pressure is a problem that needs to be fixed immediately as in as soon as it goes low pull over and have it towed. Continuing to operate with low oil pressure probably doomed the engine.

As someone else pointed out, frequent very short trips are very hard on an engine. The reason is because moisture builds up in the crank case over time, so if you run it for about 30 minutes or so at least once per month the moisture will evaporate. However, frequent short trips means lots of condensation which builds up but is not removed.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
11. Understood, however, these vehicles are known for having low oil pressure at warm idle
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:19 PM
Apr 2016

I think the specs are something like 5-7 psi. So it wasn't something that stood out as a major change. And this thing ran so smooth right up to when the incident happened. Literally no symptoms of anything unusual at all. I had gone to run an errand, pressure was fine on the way, and was fine when I glanced down at it halfway home. I turned off the highway, drove half a block at low speed, and turned on to my street. That's where I noticed the stuttering sound that went away when I accelerated. Happened again at my driveway a very short distance down the street. That's all that happened. Oil level was full throughout, engine temp was normal throughout.

Let it cool down for a few hours, went out to start again. Oil pressure came up to normal immediately. Lots of noise, most of which I attribute to the valve train in the top end. That is less worrisome than what I think was a louder knock. Not steady, with the RPM's but slower, and erratic. Knock, knock-knock, knock-knock, knock, etc. Like it was fading in and out Only for a few seconds, then I shut it down.

So I guess we'll see tomorrow or whenever the mechanic gets around to it.

NJCher

(35,606 posts)
15. food for thought
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 01:46 PM
Apr 2016

Once you get past this experience, think about this. It is a story about a couple math professors I used to work with.

They would constantly be shopping for used cars. It was an ongoing thing--almost like a hobby. When I asked why, they responded in typical math professor logic: when you drive an older car, you have to leverage your odds. Odds are that an older car, once it gets a certain # of miles, is going to do something like what has happened to you.

Subsequently, you never let it get to that point.

Now, it is difficult to find a used car with 38k miles, but it can be done. That is why you have to always be searching. So when you find those cars, you dump the car you've been driving and go on to the next car with lower miles. That is how you keep this kind of stuff from not happening to you. That's not to say it's a perfect theory, but it worked pretty well for them.

There was one flaw their theory: they were such diligent shoppers they turned up a fair number of good used cars at low mileage. They couldn't "not" buy them. Therefore they always had around 4-5 cars on their property, which in the upscale neighborhood they lived in, did not endear them to the neighbors.

But as far as getting around at low cost, they were able to pull that economic coup.



Cher


Wounded Bear

(58,574 posts)
16. Had a boss once, sr engineer...
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 02:11 PM
Apr 2016

who never bought a new car. He demanded something like 50k miles, at least, before he'd even consider the vehicle. He called them "road tested." I shit you not.

I remember one car he had that threw a tie rod. He got under the car and basically disconnected the piston from the crankshaft. He called it his 7-cylinder after that. Drove it a couple more years like that IIRC. Emission standards were a little looser back then. Of course, by buying old, most of his cars were grandfathered in to the local smog ordinances.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
19. I didn't know that was even possible
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 03:28 PM
Apr 2016

Hell, I'd be willing to do it if I could limp around for a few more months like that.

rurallib

(62,372 posts)
20. I had a 1992 S10
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 09:10 PM
Apr 2016

it ran good for about 5 years. As it approached 100,000 it fell apart fast.
Sorry I can't help.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
21. Look around for a forum or "group" for people who own the make of car- there will be loads of
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 09:13 PM
Apr 2016

really smart hobbyist people there to give you advice. I have done this twice when my old VW had serious issues that the local guys could no figure out at all. I very quickly got the specific info. I don't think it is a Yahoo or Google group, but there maybe it;s worth looking for one there too. You just want a very active group.

Ex Lurker

(3,811 posts)
22. I've been looking around on some those sites
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:05 AM
Apr 2016

Of course I don't know exactly what my situation is yet, so they're of limited help so far, but what I'm finding out doesn't encourage me. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems more likely than not I'm looking at a major, major expense if I want to keep the vehicle, or trying to find something reliable that I can afford. I'm tempted to give up driving entirely except my town has no public transportation, and even pedestrian travel is problematic. No bike lanes, few sidewalks. You share the road with cars almost exclusively.

It's midnight here, and I find myself putting off going to bed. Why? Because if I go to sleep, that will make tomorrow seem to come sooner. On top of that, my dog is sick, he's stopped eating again. An ongoing thing with him. He has a number of issues including food allergies, reflux, high liver enzymes, and susceptibility to sinus infections. I lost my other dog last year, and I worry that something might happen to him. Not a real good day today.

Sorry, I know a lot of people have it much worse, so I try not to complain too much. Sometimes it just gets to me.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
23. Rough day- I am so sorry! Try to get some sleep soon and process the advice from here and maybe
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:11 AM
Apr 2016

some good things will come out of it this week. I have had cats with the same issues, and the advice I have gotten on Yahoo groups (for both kidney problems and also some bad intestinal issues and allergies with another cat) have really been life savers.
When I asked about the issues on the car forum they really broke it down so it at least saved me the time and money the mechanic would have spent "experimenting" when they really had no idea. Those people nailed it right away. I hope for a similar swift resolution, and for better health for your poor dog.

jmowreader

(50,522 posts)
24. The low oil pressure indicates the engine is shot. Sorry.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 03:42 AM
Apr 2016

Main bearings, in addition to suspending the crankshaft, maintain oil pressure. When they wear out, you get low oil pressure. Then the knocking indicates your rod bearings are also going out.

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