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diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:49 AM Jan 2015

Update on the condo pet issue thing. ONLY giving a one time update as a few requested.

I had EVERY intention to stay away but I got a few PMs requesting I keep them inform. I figure this is the best way to give people the update.

The Lawyer visit still has us wondering what happened. We went to see a lawyer about the pet issue considering one set of rules said pets are allow and another said dogs only and the Sec of the condo assoc wrote in her letter to us that ONLY CERTAIN PEOPLE HAD PERMISSION TO HAVE PET VISITS. We did not have that right. First the guy said we had a case then we didn't then we did and while talking to him he accused me of "dominating" him and threw us out of his office.


So My wife is going to a different way. She is going to try and change the rule. She is going for the big guns and going to change the rule that pets can't live in the units.

This is her letter that she wrote to the President and Secretary/Treasure.

This is what she sent them:
Just because a rule is in place over so many years DOES NOT MEAN IT CAN NOT BE OVER TURNED! I will fight TO MY DYING BREATH to see pet ownership—especially cat ownership is allowed. I will petition my fellow Condo dwellers every week, month, and year to help me overturn this rule.

Also you cannot post conflicting rules and decide which rules is going to fit your whims! One posting says pets while another paper says dogs only and IT IS NOT FAIR to give CERTAIN PEOPLE PERMISSION AND NOT OTHERS.

This letter is not meant as a threat just an intent to let you know my goal and if it is a long fight with the condo association I will not back down on the issue. Some issues are worth fighting for and in order for this place to feel like a home to me I need a pet(s). I did try your way without a pet but this place feels cold and lonely. I also want you to know had I been allowed to have a visit with a cat I would not even be writing this letter or taking these steps.

TO MY DYING BREATH I WILL FIGHT TO SEE PET OWNERSHIP IS ALLOWED:
_____

She also now has signs hanging on all our windows facing the parking lot which read Change the Rules.

The day we went to see the lawyer the President had the nerve to come out of her unit smiling at us like nothing was wrong and talk to us. My wife was livid she turned to the woman and in a firm tone said Do Not SPEAK to me. The woman looked down shamefully almost like she felt guilty (at least that is how I interrupted her actions)

My wife plans on writing to every owner in the two buildings that make up our condo association every week pleading her case as to why pets should be allowed.


What's even worse is that earlier this week where going to have direct TV installed. We saw one rule stating satellite dishes are allowed another stating Dish is now allowed as well. So my wife had me go down and make sure we are allowed direct TV. I specifically asked if DIRECT TV could be installed. The Secretary/Treasure said yes. Then when direct TV came and he started to look to see what type of wiring we had she started yelling at the guy that no holes can be drill. Why this psycho didn't tell me this before when I asked I didn't know.

The wires in the condo would not support direct TV without having outages. They would have to run new lines. So we couldn't do it. BUT there are a couple units with dishes. SO if they have satellite TV those lines must have been ran so I think this woman is trying to screw with us. that is the only thing I can think.

So this is the update a few of you requested. Sorry if it bothers some of you who think I am posting to much. It won't happen again.

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Update on the condo pet issue thing. ONLY giving a one time update as a few requested. (Original Post) diabeticman Jan 2015 OP
It doesn't bother me! I'm glad to see your wife is being proactive mackerel Jan 2015 #1
your wife should tone down her letter, a bit. KMOD Jan 2015 #2
That letter is way too emotional and needs to be toned down. R B Garr Jan 2015 #3
I'm concerned about the interraction with the lawyer, elleng Jan 2015 #4
One other thing: you can ask for the Minutes from previous HOA meetings R B Garr Jan 2015 #6
Yes, and to do this effectively, elleng Jan 2015 #7
I have to agree with the tone of the letter. You really do "catch more flies with honey..." Rhiannon12866 Jan 2015 #5
Yeah, I have to agree. cwydro Jan 2015 #13
turn it down a few notches hibbing Jan 2015 #29
yes, really blackcrow Jan 2015 #8
Sounds a tad overly dramatic. Certain not in any way, professional. SammyWinstonJack Jan 2015 #9
"certainly would not change the rules for them": The rules are allegedly being applied arbitrarily. WinkyDink Jan 2015 #14
Diabeticman, cwydro Jan 2015 #10
I agree completely. femmocrat Jan 2015 #15
I absitively agree with both of you. Tobin S. Jan 2015 #18
My wife did send the letter to the two women. I have asked her to let me ask here for help. diabeticman Jan 2015 #19
The window signs could be a problem- cwydro Jan 2015 #20
I would tone that letter down a lot magical thyme Jan 2015 #11
Dial way down the tone of that letter. HappyMe Jan 2015 #12
annoyng the heck out of the other owners with weekly letters is not going to help either. blackcrow Jan 2015 #28
Have you looked at the Condo/HOA Declaration to see what the actual process is for changing a rule Lex Jan 2015 #16
I imagine you both feel like you're surrounded by enemies right about now. LiberalAndProud Jan 2015 #17
Personally, I'd be getting the hell cwydro Jan 2015 #55
Some Condo's unfortunately become benld74 Jan 2015 #21
Do you have a printed copy of your association's CC&R's? CreekDog Jan 2015 #22
We were sent 2 down-loadable files. Half of what we have is photocopies of hand writtien items. diabeticman Jan 2015 #23
what about the copies you signed when you bought your property? CreekDog Jan 2015 #24
To my knowledge...or let me put it this way I don't remember signing a paper stating I got a hard diabeticman Jan 2015 #25
You signed the CC&R's, but you didn't get a copy of what you signed? CreekDog Jan 2015 #26
Let me go through all the paperwork again. I guess the PDA/ down loable files were my copy. diabeticman Jan 2015 #27
Did you sign the CC&R's or not? CreekDog Jan 2015 #30
My mother lives in a condo. cwydro Jan 2015 #31
Not all rules are good, but there's obviously a need for rules in a condo community CreekDog Jan 2015 #32
Oh I understand. cwydro Jan 2015 #35
I do not see anything saying it is a CC&R--in fact I never heard of that term until talking about diabeticman Jan 2015 #33
Something about CC&Rs: elleng Jan 2015 #34
You signed stuff without reading it? blackcrow Jan 2015 #36
Not trying to be mean here - Have you been to a property closing? Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2015 #41
stepping in cautiously here... Phentex Jan 2015 #42
From what I understand, they lost their pet(s) before moving into the condo. demmiblue Jan 2015 #43
that's not what I read... Phentex Jan 2015 #45
Yes, I remember that one cat died in late November. betsuni Jan 2015 #46
and something about not enough volume in a football to deflate Phentex Jan 2015 #47
And also, for the record, in October: betsuni Jan 2015 #56
I lived in a mixed condo/rental complex in Florida Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2015 #48
i don't understand the weight thing... Phentex Jan 2015 #50
I think the theory was a cat or a small dog Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2015 #51
And we all scroll through the internet agreement crap. cwydro Jan 2015 #53
I've been to two property closings blackcrow Jan 2015 #52
Your a better person than I am Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2015 #54
I'll ask my mom about it. cwydro Jan 2015 #37
CC&R = by-laws. demmiblue Jan 2015 #44
Drama....shudder. This is approaching restraining order level. alphafemale Jan 2015 #49
CreekDog is right (I don't believe I actually just wrote that) Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2015 #40
The letter needs to be professional and MUST be proofread... a la izquierda Jan 2015 #38
This is true. cwydro Jan 2015 #39
Durn, cwydro Jan 2015 #57
YOU WANT UPDATES! No there was no hard copy of the By laws and no there was no paper we sign diabeticman Jan 2015 #58

mackerel

(4,412 posts)
1. It doesn't bother me! I'm glad to see your wife is being proactive
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:02 AM
Jan 2015

and going for what she wants. I've heard this about condo associations and their rules. Some of the people on those boards let the position go to their heads. It also makes me wonder if whoever had the place before you was trying to get out of there quickly because of all the contradictory rules.

 

KMOD

(7,906 posts)
2. your wife should tone down her letter, a bit.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:03 AM
Jan 2015

just my two cents.

It's a good idea to fight it, but her letter would do more good without threatening tones.

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
3. That letter is way too emotional and needs to be toned down.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:19 AM
Jan 2015

I would ask them in writing to direct my attention to the relevant portion(s) of the CC&R's (or whatever the property covenants are called in your state) that specifically exclude cats during the 48-hour visitation. Absent them answering your request for that portion excluding cats, I would then say that there is no further issue and you will continue to enjoy 48-hour visits with the pet of your choosing and within the guidelines of the covenants. The End.

Just something for your future reference: if the HOA has to start sending you letters from an attorney (usually they have one on retainer at their disposal), you can probably expect they will pass those attorney charges on to you in the form of increased fees for those attorney services to obtain your compliance. If you don't pay those fees, it's possible they could proceed to get a judgment against you.

It sounds like there is too much emotionalism from both parties. I know it's frustrating, but if they are trying to provoke you so they can document your noncompliance, then they are succeeding.

Also, don't piss off any more attorneys. Good luck.

elleng

(130,126 posts)
4. I'm concerned about the interraction with the lawyer,
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:22 AM
Jan 2015

and suggest you find another. S/he should be able to clearly demonstrate how arbitrary and capricious the behavior you are being subjected to is.

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
6. One other thing: you can ask for the Minutes from previous HOA meetings
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 03:22 AM
Jan 2015

Assuming they meet regularly, which they most likely do, they will have recorded Minutes from those meetings. At this point, I wouldn't ask for them in a threatening or hostile manner, but as a matter of course in polite discussions. It might give you some insight into previous discussions about capriciousness with regard to how other residents are treated and what their issues were.

elleng

(130,126 posts)
7. Yes, and to do this effectively,
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 03:58 AM
Jan 2015

competent counsel should be used; removes emotion from the proceeding, at least on side of 'plaintiff.'

Rhiannon12866

(202,961 posts)
5. I have to agree with the tone of the letter. You really do "catch more flies with honey..."
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 03:10 AM
Jan 2015

Best of luck with this. I don't know what I'd do without my pets...

hibbing

(10,076 posts)
29. turn it down a few notches
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 04:23 PM
Jan 2015

I read the original thread and knew that was going somewhere (like kudzu). I agree with many here that the tone of the letter needs to be mellowed out quite a bit. I do wish both of you the best of luck.

Peace

 

blackcrow

(156 posts)
8. yes, really
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 08:46 AM
Jan 2015

If I were in some position of authority and I got a letter like that, I would assume I was dealing with someone who was bonkers and certainly would not change the rules for them. I would look at trying to get them out of the condo complex, since they probably make their neighbors very uneasy as well. As for getting others recruited to her cause, this is the opposite way to accomplish that.

You guys must be nightmare owners.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
14. "certainly would not change the rules for them": The rules are allegedly being applied arbitrarily.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jan 2015
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
10. Diabeticman,
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:28 AM
Jan 2015

don't worry what other posters tell you in regard to what you can and cannot post.

Yesterday GD was full of threads about balls and bread bags. And of course, anything goes here in the Lounge.

Post when and what you want.

femmocrat

(28,394 posts)
15. I agree completely.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 12:18 PM
Jan 2015

Thanks for the update. I like your wife's proactive approach and admire her determination. You go, girl!!!

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
19. My wife did send the letter to the two women. I have asked her to let me ask here for help.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jan 2015

yes, I have posted another thread just so we can keep things less confusing--for me.

My wife wants to have the letter she sends to all condo owners. She will write and mail letters one a week asking them to stand with her.

My wife is also planning on using our windows as a way of protesting she plans on making signs large enough to see,

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
20. The window signs could be a problem-
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:29 PM
Jan 2015

My mother's condo does not allow anything in windows. Careful on that one.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
11. I would tone that letter down a lot
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jan 2015

it's not going to attract any supporters, and likely to drive people away. And I have to wonder what would lead a lawyer to throw you out of his office.

Iirc, you mentioned before that you wondered if the condo was trying to get you to sell and leave. I have been in that situation before, and suggest that for your own peace of mind, that may be something to consider. Or renting it out and moving someplace where pets are contractually.

Other than that, she could consider volunteering at a shelter filled with cats. She may find steeping herself in needy cats during the day will satisfy her needs s well.

HappyMe

(20,277 posts)
12. Dial way down the tone of that letter.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jan 2015

It should sound professional and to the point. I would also take down the signs. If you are going to do this, alienating people will not help.

Lex

(34,108 posts)
16. Have you looked at the Condo/HOA Declaration to see what the actual process is for changing a rule
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
Jan 2015

officially? Usually you have to put it up to a vote at the HOA meeting where a quorum is present and have a certain percentage vote for the rule change. Then the HOA has to file an Amendment to the Declaration/HOA rules of the change. There is a specific process.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
17. I imagine you both feel like you're surrounded by enemies right about now.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jan 2015

That's no way to have to live. I'm sorry you're having to go through this.



By way of encouragement, I remind you that you will get through it. Best of luck to you, your wife, and your (hopefully) pet. I hope you feel free to come back and post here whenever you feel like it. I don't mind at all.

benld74

(9,888 posts)
21. Some Condo's unfortunately become
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

fiefdoms for those on their own power trips. We lived in one after getting married. Never have I seen so much bickering over what the association rules 'stated' and 'meant'. One owner wanted to paint the outside of her units entrance door. Its her door, yet, it was ruled the paint on it belonged to the association and could not be re-painted. And since no records were kept on who painted it, she could not. Every monthly meeting became a Law School 101 exercise. Glad we bought a home,,, ,,,, ,, most of the time.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
22. Do you have a printed copy of your association's CC&R's?
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:43 PM
Jan 2015

also known as "Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions".

do you have a copy of that?

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
23. We were sent 2 down-loadable files. Half of what we have is photocopies of hand writtien items.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:53 PM
Jan 2015

It is hard to read. I can send these files to you through e-mail. Then there are posted rules (in the foey) that are typed.

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
25. To my knowledge...or let me put it this way I don't remember signing a paper stating I got a hard
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 03:05 PM
Jan 2015

copy. I think I had to acknowledge the down loadable files.

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
27. Let me go through all the paperwork again. I guess the PDA/ down loable files were my copy.
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jan 2015

Should it have been printed out and given as a hard copy? (I worked last night. let me get some sleep)

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
30. Did you sign the CC&R's or not?
Fri Jan 23, 2015, 05:40 PM
Jan 2015

simple question.

when you signed the closing documents a big portion of those documents were the CC&R's of your condo association.

those are the rules you would have agreed to by signing them.

it doesn't appear that you remember signing them or that you were aware that buying a condo even involved rules.

CreekDog

(46,192 posts)
32. Not all rules are good, but there's obviously a need for rules in a condo community
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:14 AM
Jan 2015

because people share ownership of many things within an association.

because people are in close proximity to each other.

because people who run the association need to have rules and procedures for their actions in that capacity.

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
33. I do not see anything saying it is a CC&R--in fact I never heard of that term until talking about
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:48 AM
Jan 2015

on this board.


I looked through EVERYTHING we signed that day. It is not in our set of copies. The only thing was asked is if we got a copy of the by- laws.

I know I sound like an idiot--I probably am but This is the first time I ever bought a house and at the signing the settlement person was handing us papers and telling us where to sign. at the signing she made copies of everything we signed and put it in a folder for us. My wife and I have gone over this folder and there is no paper calling about CC&R.

elleng

(130,126 posts)
34. Something about CC&Rs:
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 02:12 AM
Jan 2015

'Often, title companies will not have copies of the CC&Rs affecting the property until the day of closing, and they are often overlooked at that point. However, CC&Rs are binding upon the purchaser, and the purchaser will become subject to them, whether or not they have been reviewed, read, or understood. The general rule of "constructive notice" applies in these cases. No real estate contract should be signed until a purchaser has reviewed all the CC&Rs (and zoning laws) affecting the property.'

http://realestate.findlaw.com/owning-a-home/cc-r-basics.html

Who conducted closing? Did you have counsel?

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,780 posts)
41. Not trying to be mean here - Have you been to a property closing?
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jan 2015

If you are purchasing a home with a mortgage, there are reams of paper to be signed. Most people don't read most of it, save for the actual offer and sale terms, and the basic terms of the mortgage. They have attorneys advise them as to the content, and get writers cramp from signing their name 50 times.

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
42. stepping in cautiously here...
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:21 PM
Jan 2015

I know there are lots of papers to sign. But as a pet owner who considers my pets part of my family, I would make sure my family members would be able to stay with me once I purchased the condo. I don't consider my pets to be on the same level as to what color curtains I can hang or how many parking spaces I can use. But that's just me.

diabeticman and his wife had cats when they moved in. It seems they didn't ask or were never told about the pet rules. And now they have a mess on their hands.

demmiblue

(36,742 posts)
43. From what I understand, they lost their pet(s) before moving into the condo.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:14 PM
Jan 2015

I also believe that diabeticman knew in advance that the condo did not allow pets.

That is what I recall, anyway.

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
45. that's not what I read...
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 05:37 PM
Jan 2015

but I try to remember I can't believe everything I read on the internet.

betsuni

(25,119 posts)
46. Yes, I remember that one cat died in late November.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 09:46 PM
Jan 2015

Was the cat just visiting? Did it live in the condo? Was it staying elsewhere? How do airplanes stay up in the sky? Can I use body lotion on my face? Why are soft drinks measured in liters but gasoline in gallons? I have so many questions.

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
47. and something about not enough volume in a football to deflate
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 10:59 PM
Jan 2015

the way a tire deflates during a temperature change. These are the mysteries of life.

betsuni

(25,119 posts)
56. And also, for the record, in October:
Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jan 2015

"Of our two remaining cats one will bat at the cell phone while the other seems to lay on top of it." Where was this batting and laying taking place? WHERE WERE THE CATS? (Yes, I have too much free time, it's a long story.)

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,780 posts)
48. I lived in a mixed condo/rental complex in Florida
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 02:04 AM
Jan 2015

Upon moving in, I had no pets, but was told I could have one up to 30 lbs. I adopted a cat, and was informed by the board that there was a no pet policy.

I wasn't there. I won't judge. He probably should seek legal advice.

Phentex

(16,330 posts)
50. i don't understand the weight thing...
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 09:17 AM
Jan 2015

Will a 35 lb dog do more damage than a 25 lb dog? I know some small dogs who have done way more damage than some great big ones. It seems to me that when you own the place, you take care of the damage no matter what caused it.

demmiblue

(36,742 posts)
44. CC&R = by-laws.
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 04:21 PM
Jan 2015

As I stated in another one of your threads, you really need to go over the by-laws fully before you take any action.

And, of course, you and your wife can try to get those by-laws changed. I do not believe, however, that you will change many minds on your current path. People in tight quarters hate drama (with the exception of a few). As another poster wrote, you catch more flies with honey.

Good luck to the both of you. I totally sympathize with your wife.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
49. Drama....shudder. This is approaching restraining order level.
Sun Jan 25, 2015, 07:57 AM
Jan 2015

Something tells me someone got their way with temper tantrums beginning as a toddler.

Adult coping skills with dealing with disappointments never had to be learned.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,780 posts)
40. CreekDog is right (I don't believe I actually just wrote that)
Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:08 PM
Jan 2015

You'd have signed a copy at purchase. The CC&R is most likely with the documents you signed at closing.

The Association should have your signed copy. Ask them to make a copy for you. If, as you say, you agreed to abide by downloadable copies, ask for a copy of the receipt with your digital signature (or live signature, if you signed a document). That document should stipulate to a version or an effective date of the documents, so you'll need a version that was effective as of that date.

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
58. YOU WANT UPDATES! No there was no hard copy of the By laws and no there was no paper we sign
Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:29 AM
Jan 2015

about any by laws.


My wife is drafting another letter to all the other condo residence but these two who live under us are bitches. How the hell does this woman say Yes you can have direct TV installed than start screaming no wires can be ran. OTHER people in the complex have dish. I purposely went down ask asked because one hand written bylaw says dish another said satellite.

These people have been screwing with us for weeks now. First 48 hour notice and never mentioned anything wrong with a cat now it is wrong.

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