A RANT: Can folks stop calling these women 'Plus-size models'!!!!

[LynneSin]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/robyn-lawley-plus-size-ralph-lauren-model_n_1897703.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Robyn Lawley Becomes First Plus Size Ralph Lauren Model

Plus-size shapes have been inching further and further into the mainstream, from magazine covers like Vogue Italia and Glamour to high-end designer lines like Burberry. But Robyn Lawley, one of the most successful plus-size models in the biz, is going where no plus-size stunner has gone before: Ralph Lauren.

Lawley announced her new gig as the first plus-size model for Ralph Lauren on "Good Morning America" today. The size 12 model, who stands at a statuesque 6 feet 2 inches tall, spoke to "GMA" about her journey to get here -- how she initially worked as a "straight" model at age 16, felt the pressure to diet and change her body, and eventually hit her stride as a plus-size mode at 19.

This woman is NOT a plus-size model. She is a NORMAL size model. Her size & weight are way more mainstream than these starved looking waifs they have been using for years. And yes, I know there are some people out there who can't help but be size 0 even if they eat everything in site. But size 12-16 is about the norm you're going to find for the rest of us who haven't hit the genetic jackpot for modeling.

The girl they picked as the model is absolutely stunning and yet to call her 'plus-size' makes her sound like she's some unhealthy beast of a woman whose diet consists of all you can eat junkfood everyday.

To me 'plus-size' is insultive. It's the fashion industry telling us that if you aren't size 0-4 you're not beautiful. Young girls in school see words like 'plus-size' and it has such a negative overtone that leads so many to diseases like anorexia and bulumnia.

If the fashion industry wants to promote healthy body types like Robin Lawley, the size 12 model hired by Ralph Lauren, then start using words like regular-size model or healthy-size model or just call her a model. But get ride of this 'plus-size' word because as someone who really is plus size (i'm just above that 14-16), it is offensive.

Thank you.

Oh this is Ralph Lauren's so-called 'PLUS-SIZE' model

[Baitball Blogger]

1. I'm thinking that the "waif" look is more about looking perpetually youthful, than it is about

being skinny for the sake of being skinny.

And not just youthful, but adolescent youthful.

[Iggo]

2. I don't. They (the industry) do.

I call them actual size. (And yes, I guess that's also a little insulting to the undersized models.)

[LynneSin]

3. I think it would be best if they just dropped all prefixes

Because you are right - there are women that just stay superthin naturally and i don't want to be insultive to them either.

[HappyMe]

4. Yeah, just say 'model'.

No need for any size adjective.

Personally, 'stick' and 'skeleton' is getting really fucking old.

[crunch60]

26. Thanks, because I am one of those super thin

ladies. I can't tell you how many people over the years said to me, " your to thin, you need to eat."
Some people think it's OK to say that. The insult goes both ways.

[LynneSin]

8. Really??

A woman who is size 12 is hardly plus size. She's around the national average here in the USA. Plus size has always denoted a woman in the modeling industry outside the 0-4 size, which is far below the norm here in the USA.

Why do we even have to refer to her as 'plus-size'? Why can't we just call her a model? Why must we be all glee that Ralph Lauren or anyone happens to hire a model whose weight is more to the norm of everyday women?

The modeling industry has had a long history of turning perfectly healthy women into eating disorder walking sticks because of their insistance that these girls achieve a size that is difficult for most women to obtain. And for the young girls & women who read the magazines it builts alot of body insecurity.

Wouldn't it be better to just call them all models and stop trying to justify using someone who, although normal weighted for real life is still larger then fashion industry norms, 'plus-size'. Plus size is someone like me who shops in the women's department where there is a 'W' next to all my sizes.

Sure they the fashion industry can call them all they want but it just plays into that long-running standard that extreme thinness is the only thing deemed beautiful in the fashion industry. That's just outdated thinking.

[LynneSin]

11. Well it is offensive

To alot of people. It also creates negative body images for many young women who see this as a negative. Maybe you don't follow fashion or the whims of a young girl who reads those magazines - who knows. But I've met girls who felt some reason that size 12 was 'fat' to them even when these girls were perfectly healthy and normal size. And I've seen those girls starve themselves because they didn't understand that size 2 isn't a normal size for the majority of people. Sure some girls are naturally that size and I don't judge them as being unhealthy but when a girl starves herself to near death just to get to that elusive 'size 2' then I have a problem.

I'm not asking that the fashion industry give positive names to the varions size models out there. I think what many people are asking is simply to NOT use the plus-size when referring to a perfectly health, normal size, normal weight woman. Just call them model - that's what they do.

Sorry, I thought I was posting this at a website where we value political correctness. Hell let's just toss it all out the window and bring back all the negative stereotypes out there because we need to cater to people too lazy to bother or recognize the problem with negative words.

[LynneSin]

19. I can't even believe I'm having his conversation with anyone at DU

Have you always been rude to people not like you?

[antiquie]

13. Plus-size Model v. Plus-size Woman

To me, there is a big difference between the two.
Plus-size model means in the fashion industry the model is larger than the usual.
I could understand if some women are offended by the phrase plus-size woman.

[LynneSin]

15. that's the problem

I respect the fact that i am a plus-size woman. I shop in the women's department and i"m about 40lbs from being able to get back into the regular size misses department.

But because Plus-size is attached to women who are above normal size weight or obese, it sounds bad when used with a model who happens to be normal size, normal weight but bigger than the modeling industry's standard size of 0-4.

And for many young girls and women who follow fashion or watch shows like 'America's Next Top Model' - they see 'plus-size' as a negativity even when Tyra tries her best to make plus-size seem fabulous. That negative body image leads to alot of girls developing bad eating habits - some that could possibly kill them.

[antiquie]

18. We try to emphasize healthy size.

My two grandaughters are 7 (and a half!) and 15. They both struggle with weight issues, the youngest due to medications, the older from eating challenges. Their brother (8-1/2), struggles to gain weight. We are all short. I am barely five feet and and the horrible size 4. Please note that at my height I bear no resemblance to over-five-nine models.

(Gotta go watch the shuttle live)

[LynneSin]

20. Even if you are 5'10 and size 4 I wouldn't assume you had an eating disorder

I'm 5-10 and use to wear size 6 for the longest time. Unfortunately I never had healthy eating habits and it caught up to me when I got older.

[Scuba]

6. This country's crazy.... models get smaller, meals get bigger ....

you can buy an SUV the size of a warehouse and a cellphone smaller than a dime.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Size 12 is "plus size"?

Jeebers. I wish I could still wear a 12. So - even though I can still shop in the "regular" sizes, I guess to the fashion industry I must be a "mega-size" or something because I'm too monstrously huge to wear a 12.

[LynneSin]

9. When I was a healthy weight I was between size 14-16

And I looked good at that size.

I tried to get to a size 12 and I felt like I was starving all the time. I can't even imagine trying to get myself slimmer than that because not only would I have to give up eating in general but i would probably have to rule out most forms of exercize since that tends to bulk me up.

[Neoma]

12. I don't even know what size I am.

I didn't grow up with peer pressure, and I'm not going to start now. I grew up wearing vests... The horror.

[yawnmaster]

14. so just accept that plus size is normal...help society remove the "stigma"...

Don't try and limit what they call it...
Start a campaign that plus size is normal.

[LynneSin]

16. Why can't we just call normal size normal?

Plus-size is for gals like me who are above normal weight and shop in the women's department.

Did you see the photo? Does that girl look like she has a weight issue?

[yawnmaster]

27. You can. I can. Many can...

also, there really is no "normal" weight.
Society has to learn that "normal" is a very broad range.
And, I believe, that is done by evangelizing that point to as broad an audience as one can.

[AnneD]

37. Why can't we call normal...

Normal. It seems normal is a moving target.

Have you ever noticed that men's condoms come with more flattering size names than women's dress sizes. I have never seen condoms come in small sizes. They seem to be large or extra large and come on guys...who are they fooling. It surely isn't the ladies.

[riderinthestorm]

21. We even had DUers complain that Jennifer Lawrence (sz 2!) was "too fat" for Hunger Games!

Our notion of "normality" when it comes to body size and types is fucked. up.

FWIW, the model in that pic is stunning and looks like a perfect size for her height. Much thinner and she'd lose her beautiful face to gauntness.

Great OP.

[LynneSin]

22. Are you kidding me?

First I'm even shocked to hear Jennifer Lawrence is size 2. She looks a bit curvy but normal weight.

That's what i thought about the model - she's perfect size.

[HappyMe]

25. I have heard from sales

associates in a couple of different stores that the clothes are cut bigger these days. With some brands a size 4 pair of jeans is a bit too big, with others a size 4 is too small.

Anyway, how the hell does anyone know what size an actress wears?

[riderinthestorm]

29. Nope, no kidding. She's the exact same weight and height as my older girl

http://www.zimbio.com/Jennifer+Lawrence/articles/MGv9NkQrFkb/Jennifer+Lawrence+Bra+Size+34C+Weight+125lbs

I found this by googling.

[bamacrat]

24. I'm going to get shit about this but...

It depends a lot on height. A 5 foot woman who is a size 12 is plus sized. A 6 foot tall woman might not be. To declare that the average is 12-16 is ridiculous, well it may not be ridiculous in our current obese world nation. But for example my wife is 5 feet tall and is what I would call normal as far as how in shape she is and she is a 2-4 depending on make. My mother is 5'7" and she is about a 6-8, and very thin. (I asked them before posting to not be incorrect.) It's ok to say people are fat. Women with slim toned bodies are not waif or starving themselves. (Some may be but not outside the Twiggy model realm) These women who are plus sized models may be a size 12 but they are 6 feet or taller. So not comparable. Size 12 and not 6 feet tall is on the bigger side.

Sorry for a rant, being proud of the way you look regardless of how big or small you are is great and I encourage everyone to feel that way.

[LynneSin]

28. But as I said in my original rant I realize some people are naturally size 0-4

And i would never suggest calling them minus-size.

I'd rather we just call everyone normal.

But your last sentence does sum it up quite nicely. Unfortunately I have known girls that don't see it that way and felt that their size 12 was 'fat' simply because they would see or read about 'plus-size' models. The industry would do a world of good if they just dropped that term altogether.

[NewJeffCT]

36. I agree with you that it's ridiculous to say a size 6 or 8

is plus sized.

However, on the opposite side, every time somebody posts a picture of a slender woman, a person on DU will inevitably post something along the lines of "eat a cheeseburger" or sandwich or similar.

[dawg]

30. I think there should be plus-sized models, but they should, well ... be at least a little chubby.

One of the sexiest women I have ever seen in my life was size 12. She was not chubby at all. That is a normal-sized woman, and calling a woman that size "plus-sized" is ridiculous. (You know, unless she's 4'10" or something.)

I think there is a role for plus-sized models to play in the industry because some clothes are specifically designed and marketed for plus-sized women so it only makes sense to have plus-sized models to model them.

But for general fashions, models should come in all the normal sizes. (And it wouldn't kill them to let a shorty up there every once in a while.)

[pipi_k]

31. Here are my suspicions...

they call size 12 and above "Plus Size" so they can use those women to model the clothing and make us true plus size women think that if we buy their clothing we'll look like those women when we wear it.

And yes, I've fallen for it, then been disappointed when I didn't look like those models.

I was once a size 10. Someone who didn't know me then saw a photo and was shocked enough to say that I looked like a crack addict...i.e. very thin and unhealthy. So...I suppose when I gained a few lbs. and became a size 12, that made me "Plus Size" instead of just regular size.

One of the Plus Size catalogues I like is "Junonia". They use actual plus size models (probably at least size 16 and above). No chance there of being fooled into thinking I'm going to lose 75 lbs. by buying their stuff. I get to see what it actually looks like on someone my size (bigger than 18).

Oh, and I refer to myself as "Zaftig"

[Lady Freedom Returns]

32. Size 12 is not a plus size.

[jmowreader]

33. In modeling it is

There is a Dutch-born model named Doutzen Kroes who (before the fashion industry started trending away from waifs) lost a lot of jobs because she was too big for the samples. Ms. Kroes is size 6.

To you and I the lady in the OP is a normal-bodied beautiful woman. To the maniacs in the fashion industry, she's huge.

[LynneSin]

42. No i actually am plus size

But I'm in the woman's department.

I'm just thinking it's crazy she is called plus size when she is not.

And because us big girls are called plus size and there are size 6+ models called 'plus size' it gives the girls who read the magazines or watch shows like 'America's next Top Model' and they think 'Plus size - geez that means fat'.

I remember a quote in 'THe Devil wears Prada' where Tucci, the Fashion Editor said 'Size 2 is the new Size 4' and Anne Hathaway replied back 'Well I'm only size 6'. His response - 'That's the new size 14'. I know it's just a movie but honestly in the fashion industry if you are above size 4 you might as well be size 40 in their book.

[HeiressofBickworth]

34. Back in the early 90's, I discovered a "real person" modeling agency

I was in my mid-forties, and a large woman (not quite so big now). I did 9 runway shows at local malls, one TV show, and won a modeling contest at a local department store (women's department did an annual fashion show). I had a great time but as a business model, "real people" just didn't have much of a market in the fashion world. The agency then changed to providing extras for movies shot locally. And then there was nothing.

[RiffRandell]

35. I want those boots.

I have 4 pair of Ralph Lauren riding boots and now want those. Going online right now to find them.

[Burma Jones]

38. A NYC friend of mine was dating a successful so called Plus Sized model.....

She wasn't emaciated, but she sure wasn't fat.....I would guess she was in the middle of her "normal" weight range.

I suggested to her that perhaps, "Healthy" would be a better name for her type of model.

[haele]

39. Even worse in pattens - Vogue size 12 is different than Simplicity size 12 -

Going into the stores is a nightmare with the kidlet. If the patterns are European sized (generally found in clothes made in So. America, Africa or Middle-East/West Asia), the busts are larger and there's more hip room, which allows a busty 5'5"/150 lb woman to look very good in a size 10.
If the patterns are what used to be called Asian sized (Clothes made in the Marianas, Philippeans, Indonesia) the hips and bust are usually an average of 1 1/2 inches smaller for the height, and the same busty 5'5", 150 lb woman will need to wear a size 12 or even 14 for everything to fit.

Then there's the difference between a Junior size, a Woman's size, and a Petite size.
I can find the very same physically cut and sized shirt and pants combination in the same store by the same "designer" identified in three different sizes depending on which department it's being sold in.

It's all marketing. Encourage the younger women buy for the status symbol of being "sexy and thin", and when they're too old to be conned into buying for sexy, encourage them by re-labeling the sizes so they buy to feel comfortable.

Haele

[Blue_Tires]

40. agreed..

I thought the "plus size" maybe meant "taller than usual"...

[Taverner]

41. "Plus Size" in this case refers to her height

6 foot 2