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Sat Jan 13, 2018, 02:45 AM

Millennials watching Friends on Netflix shocked, say show is sexist, etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/friends-netflix-sexist-racist-transphobic-problematic-millenials-watch-a8154626.html

What do you think? I don't know how to react to this, but honestly I'm a bit angry since this was a show that defined my youth in the 90s.

39 replies, 1661 views

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Reply Millennials watching Friends on Netflix shocked, say show is sexist, etc. (Original post)
ansible Jan 2018 OP
rusty quoin Jan 2018 #1
dewsgirl Jan 2018 #2
Binkie The Clown Jan 2018 #3
whathehell Jan 2018 #4
mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2018 #24
sl8 Jan 2018 #32
mahatmakanejeeves Jan 2018 #35
Kablooie Jan 2018 #5
EllenlogRL Jan 2018 #6
MaryMagdaline Jan 2018 #7
Orrex Jan 2018 #8
Blue_Adept Jan 2018 #9
malthaussen Jan 2018 #10
GreenPartyVoter Jan 2018 #11
FakeNoose Jan 2018 #15
malthaussen Jan 2018 #17
regnaD kciN Jan 2018 #28
jberryhill Jan 2018 #30
PassingFair Jan 2018 #12
lunamagica Jan 2018 #13
PassingFair Jan 2018 #14
lunamagica Jan 2018 #16
malthaussen Jan 2018 #19
malthaussen Jan 2018 #18
jpak Jan 2018 #25
nolabear Jan 2018 #20
annabanana Jan 2018 #22
elleng Jan 2018 #23
bdtrppr6 Jan 2018 #37
JonLP24 Jan 2018 #21
bobbieinok Jan 2018 #26
Doodley Jan 2018 #27
regnaD kciN Jan 2018 #29
jberryhill Jan 2018 #31
Demit Jan 2018 #33
Oneironaut Jan 2018 #34
NewJeffCT Jan 2018 #36
crazycatlady Jan 2018 #38
Iggo Jan 2018 #39

Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 02:52 AM

1. I dont know. I guess I have to explain Welcome Back Kotter or something.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 02:58 AM

2. It defined mine as well, wow I can think of a couple other

shows that would knock their socks off.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 03:12 AM

3. I guess they haven't watched "Father Knows Best" yet.


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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 03:21 AM

4. Lol..

My sentiments exactly. Thanks for the perspective.

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:02 PM

24. Let's not get into the ageism on "Lassie."

How many times are we going to make fun of ol' Grandpa for falling in the well?



This picture is from the original series, with Tommy Rettig as Jeff. In reruns, the series is called "Jeff's Collie" to avoid copyright issues.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/cindylsuits/lassie/

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Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:58 PM

32. And the sexism. The character Lassie was a female dog, but was always played by male dogs. n/t

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Response to sl8 (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 06:59 PM

35. That's done as an homage to "Lassie's" Shakespearean roots. NT

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 03:31 AM

5. Once the me too movement really sinks into popular culture...

There is going to be a huge body of shockingly sexist shows from the 20th century.

We can see old movies today that have horribly racist moments that are played as innocent comedy. It's shocking because we judge it by current standards but what they show is the accepted standards of the day.

Instead of being shocked be grateful that we have progressed beyond that period.

Movies and TV are truly time machines.
Society changes. Movie reels don't.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 04:01 AM

6. early 90s

 

Obviously, the cultural values of society has changed over the past 30 years.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 10:28 AM

7. Friends had the first lesbian marriage

The first gay, cross-dressing dad (not trans), first woman kissing woman scene. It showed two loving moms raising a son with one mom's ex-husband in a cooperative and supportive way; a son tracking down his burlesque show dad to invite him to his wedding, with his wife reminding him that his cross-dressing dad had been there for him his entire childhood.

Friends was way ahead if its time and likely the show that most influenced advancement of gay rights.

Joey was a creep with women but his friends did censor him for that.

Friends not always funny but characters did have loving relationships. Strong liberal themes.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 10:48 AM

8. I always hated Chandler as an abusive asshole

And Ross was a clingy, manipulative parasite.

Joey, while we're at it, was a minimally restrained sexual predator for most of the series' run.


Not a fan, never was.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 11:20 AM

9. Even newer shows can be viewed different just because of the past year

I've been rewatching Brooklyn 99, which is getting syndicated on TBS, and the amount of workplace "sexual harassment" is just dialed to eleven.

The thing is that these shows aren't meant to be real life. They're reflections AND they're comedy. And comedy isn't meant to always be safe. It's always going to do things that are uncomfortable because it reflects the reality.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 11:46 AM

10. I was thinking something similar recently...

... as MASH re-runs were playing on the TV. Back in the 70s, Alan Alda was seen as a wonderful man based on his characterization of Hawkeye Pierce; many more-or-less enlightened people (especially female) considered him a beau ideal. But the character is smart-mouth and sexist (he is the one who invented "Hot Lips" as Major Houlihan's nickname, after all). I doubt he would be so dreamboaty (is there such a word?) now.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 01:04 PM

11. I cried watching the cops on "Barney Miller" laugh at a rape victim simply

because she was married to her rapist. I know they were highlighting the attitudes of the day and contributed to its change in its small way, but it was still painful.

Also painful to watch, original "Scooby Doo" with my boys when they were small. Scooby and Shaggy turning "Oriental" was just ugly, but was acceptable when I was young.

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 09:18 PM

15. Hot Lips' nickname is from the original movie "M.A.S.H."

Her character is protrayed as somebody they sort of tease and make fun of, it's true. But the way she got the name "Hot Lips" was during her make-out session with her boyfriend, and she says "Kiss my Hot Lips, Frank." That was broadcast all over the MASH encampment and everyone heard it on the loudspeaker. This was part of the overall comedy, not a point of sexist or sexual bullying.

If you remember the scene (also in the original movie) where the men were all sitting outside the shower tent when the women were inside taking showers, and they raised the tent up while the women were naked. The men were all clapping and cheering while the women were scrambling to cover themselves. It was funny but also humiliating for the women, and yes that was borderline bullying I'd say. It's a scene that probably wouldn't be used now because women think it's creepy.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:38 AM

17. Well, there ya go...

... I never saw the movie, but I did read the book. My recollection is that Hawkeye gave her the name, but it could well be faulty after 40-odd years.

-- Mal

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:25 PM

28. The shower tent scene targeted "Hot Lips," not all the women...

...and was to settle a bet as to whether "the carpet matched the drapes." (Yes, the film was intentionally crude and shocking, in accordance with the books. Ironically, the author of those books hated the television series, because he considered it "liberal" and "anti-American." )

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:54 PM

30. The novel was not at all an anti-war vehicle, as was the movie and the TV show


The movie, and the TV show, are ridiculously sexist.

If you want to see REALLY creepy TV, the first few minutes of nearly any episode of Love Boat is pretty weird.

The male staff isn't really doing any work, but they come up to the entry to scope out the women - unless she's black, and there is no other black guest actor, in which case you know who she's going to hook up with.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 02:43 PM

12. I binged watched Lost in Space episodes and was pretty horrified...

by the blatant sexism. It was really over the top!

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 03:20 PM

13. I know! It always bothered me, even as a little girl, how usless the women were, and how Will

had a higher rank than they did...but I just loved the robot, and the ship, and the space theme, so I put up with the uncomfortable moments and downplayed them in order to enjoy the show.

But I recently saw a few episodes, and it was even worse than I remembered. There was this scene where they had to arm themselves to go after some kind of enemy. The armed party consisted of the captain, Don, and 12-year-old Will. So the mother says that she should go. The captain says, oh, but we only need three to go. She says, "but I'm perfectly capable of handling the situation and the weapons".

So he replies, in the most condescending tone "I know you are, Honey, but we only need three. If we needed more you would come". And off they went, Will looking completely ridiculous carrying a weapon which was almost bigger than him. I turned it off then and will not watch it ever again.

I remember that if the two adult males went of on a mission, Will was left in charge.

I hated Will.

Thank goodness there was Uhura. She had a supporting role, but I knew I'd never had to endure her becoming hysterical or fainting. She was intelligent, and capable. Once, the equipment in her station failed, and SHE was the one fixing it. AWESOME! I remember Spock standing next to her and telling her he couldn't think of anyone whio'd be better qualified to fix the problem. I was always so proud of her.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 13, 2018, 07:26 PM

14. I was actually brought speechless at a particular episode...

where Will was condescendingly explaining to Penny why she couldnít help find the amazingly bizarre ďDr. SmithĒ. Not a job for females...

And Judy was always in eminent danger of space rape.

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #14)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 12:59 AM

16. The only job for females was mom cooking and saying "be careful"

for Judy and Penny it was to be stupid and in danger.

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Response to lunamagica (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:48 AM

19. Eh, even Uhura was reduced to being "scared" in later episodes...

... and I was always annoyed that it was never clear if Uhura or Sulu was senior. In some episodes, it seemed she was, but in others he seemed to be. I'm sure the studio would have rebelled at the idea of a woman being a senior officer, since they tossed "Number One" from the cast after the pilot.

As David Gerrold pointed out in his book about the series, by the third season the primary worry of scriptwriters was "how to get rid of the crew." In one episode, that resulted in Uhura being turned into a DnD die before the teaser was over.

-- Mal

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Response to PassingFair (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:40 AM

18. OTOH, I had a major crush on Angela Cartwright...

... I wasn't too interested in sexism at age 12.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:08 PM

25. Me too

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:36 AM

20. They are art. Low art but art. They reflect their times.

If you do watch with a critical but forgiving eye you can appreciate the arc of televisionís slow rise toward equality, a rise far from over. They grappled with things as they could over time, gaining and losing ground, sometimes pandering, sometimes pushing boundaries, sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing.

MASH was sexist but also presented nurses as tough, smart, sexually forward and powerful. The whole point of Friends was that they were really, really bad at relationships, and the laughter was cringy, but they made history with Ellen. Star Trek put women in skimpy clothes and made damsels of them but had the first interracial kiss. Archie Bunker brought bigotry into the open as a thing to mock but Edith (whom I adore so donít say a word against my Edith) and certainly Gloria were ditzy. Laugh-In was ground-breaking but the girls were either eye candy or old bags.

They struggled. They had been raised by wolves but were slightly better wolves and slowly struggle to get better over time. Donít fall prey to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, as we Dems too often do. No one is perfect and good can be damaged to the point of retreating. Then real evil wins.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 01:52 PM

22. Very useful yardsticks, at the very least. . .n/t

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Response to nolabear (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 02:38 PM

23. Yes, Thanks, nolabear.

'They had been raised by wolves but were slightly better wolves and slowly struggle to get better over time. Donít fall prey to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.'

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Response to nolabear (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 12:33 AM

37. All In the Family

also had the trans character that Archie befriended as a cabby. That character was murdered. Prime time "family" tv. Old shows are hard to watch since tv has always been more "of the time" than movies. Simply my opinion though.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 11:54 AM

21. I couldn't care less about the show

I always preferred to watch something else.

On edit - I recall the show was criticized for its lack of diversity even back then.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:19 PM

26. It's been a real shock to see how few shows and books I liked as a kid I can stand now

or even shows and books I liked in my 20s and 30s, even 40s (will be 78 in a week)

Of course, I still enjoy watching some because they bring back memories of my earlier self. Eg, Ozzie and Harriet.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:21 PM

27. Do Millennials live in a vacuum as far as changes in culture, attitudes and society are concerned?

What are they being taught at school if they don't even have a basic understanding of how the world has been changing?

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Response to Doodley (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:28 PM

29. THIS!

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Response to Doodley (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 05:55 PM

31. You got it

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 06:03 PM

33. Sexism lives on in the writing for the Big Bang Theory.

 

There's a great YouTube video called The Adorkable Misogynist that gives plenty of painful examples.

Things haven't changed much after all.

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Response to Demit (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 06:18 PM

34. I was just about to post this.

BBT is very cringey when it comes to sexism. The female characters are terrible.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Sun Jan 14, 2018, 10:20 PM

36. While the original Star Trek rightly gets praised for some things

like having a black woman being a bridge officer at a time when most TV and movies had black women as "the help", it did dress the women up in tiny skirts and they had an episode where women couldn't be starship captains, so a woman switched bodies with Kirk and took over the Enterprise and was driven insane by the responsibility (Janice Lester? forget the episode title)

It was horrible that they played it that way, though they have done well with female officers since - Janeway and the current ones on Discovery.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 09:25 AM

38. If anything Friends gave people unrealistic expectations

THere's no way in hell a non trust fund baby can afford that NYC apartment in their 20s.

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Response to ansible (Original post)

Mon Jan 15, 2018, 02:52 PM

39. Fuck 'em?



Or, less assholish: Please don't define people (yourself or anyone else) by the TV shows that were on when they were in their twenties.

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