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Related: About this forumRon Paul predictions in 2002.......Still think he's crazy?
I'm not some Ron Paul supporter or anything. Actually I completely disagree with him on social issues but this video is pretty impressive. It just makes you think and its why I decided to post it because it makes me stop what Im doing and think.
( Just so Im on the record I do not support Ron Paul for President and I fully support Obama )
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Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)Yes.
Clock. Broken. Day. Twice.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)
Charronxyz
(119 posts)because it seems that many here do not have the intellectual capacity to discuss politics objectively, it's either you are for us or against us narrative most of the time, or partisan politics run amok.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Sure, he opposes military intervention in foreign wars, but not out of a sense of decency or a position of pacifism; he would also withdraw from the UN (including humanitarian and peacekeeping operations, foreign aid would disappear, and if you think "unstable" regions are bad now, imagine what they would be like with the double-edged sword of multinational (read: US) corporate interests moving unchecked throughout the developing world AND an absence of monitored unilateral military involvement in those regions. Paul's position isn't one of altruism; it's one of isolationism.
Any liberal who thinks they agree with him on foreign affairs is either completely ignorant or terrifyingly misguided.
Proud Public Servant
(2,097 posts)think
(11,641 posts)We have been using our military for over a century to protect our corporations at the expense of the people in other countries. The main reason America has an illegal immigration problem was our historical military support for right wing dictators in Latin and South America.
In Nicaragua alone we "intervened" 13 times militarily to prop up dictatorships there including the Somoza family dictatorship which lasted 50 years.
One of the most egregious cases is the CIA and United Fruit coup in Guatemala in the 1950's" Allen Dulles head of the CIA was also the corporate lawyer for United Fruit. He was fired by Kennedy and then later appointed to the Warren commission to investigate Kennedy's death:
The 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état was a covert operation organized by the United States Central Intelligence Agency to overthrow Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán, the democratically-elected President of Guatemala.
Árbenz's government put forth a number of new policies, such as seizing and expropriating unused, unfarmed land that private corporations set aside long ago and giving the land to peasants. The U.S. intelligence community deemed such plans... communist in nature. This led CIA director Allen Dulles to fear that Guatemala would become a "Soviet beachhead in the western hemisphere".[1] Dulles' concern reverberated within the CIA and the Eisenhower administration, in the context of the anti-communist fears of the McCarthyist era.
Árbenz instigated sweeping land reform acts that antagonized the U.S.-based multinational United Fruit Company, which had large stakes in the old order of Guatemala and lobbied various levels of the U.S. government to take action against Árbenz.[2] Both Dulles and his brother were shareholders of United Fruit Company.[3]
Full article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat
As I mentioned Allan Dulles was fired by Kennedy only to then sit on on the commission that investigated Kennedy's death:
During the Kennedy Administration, Dulles faced increasing criticism. The pro-American but unpopular regimes in Iran and Guatemala that Dulles had helped put in place were widely regarded as brutal and corrupt.[citation needed]
Several failed assassination plots utilizing CIA-recruited operatives from the Mafia and anti-Castro Cubans directly against Castro undermined the CIA's credibility. The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco, and Dulles and his staff (including Deputy Director for Plans Richard M. Bissell, Jr. and Deputy Director Charles Cabell) were forced to resign in September 1961. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to "splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds."[18]...
....
On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon Baines Johnson appointed Dulles as one of seven commissioners of the Warren Commission to investigate the assassination of the U.S. President John F. Kennedy. The appointment was later criticized by some historians, who have noted that Kennedy had fired him, and he was therefore unlikely to be impartial in passing the judgements charged to the Warren Commission.[citation needed]...
Full article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles
Here is a list of all the US military interventions since the late 1800's":
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html
And American military is still being used to prop up brutal and repressive governments where multi national corporations exploit the poor and the environment in those countries. That is a major reason why our military is spread all across the globe. To keep multinational corporation assets and profits safe.
Retired United States Marine Corps Major General Smedley D. Butler said it best:
"WAR IS A RACKET"
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."....
full article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
And the US military is still operating at our military bases in foreign countries where the people are trying to unionize for better wages and being murdered for doing so:
'15 Colombian unionists murdered since Labor Action Plan took effect'
Fifteen union leaders have been murdered since the Labor Action Plan between the United States and Colombia went into effect in April 2011, said the largest U.S-based trade union federation in a letter to President Barack Obama.
The president of the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO) urged Obama to not send the Colombia-U.S. free trade agreement to Congress for approval until the Colombian government addresses human rights violations against unionists in their country.......
Full article:
http://colombiareports.com/colombia-news/news/19251-15-union-leaders-murdered-since-labor-action-plan-took-effect-afl-cio.html
..In July 2009, the US and Colombia concluded a secret deal to permit the US to use seven military bases in Colombia. The official purpose is to counter narcotrafficking and terrorism, "but senior Colombian military and civilian officials familiar with negotiations told The Associated Press that the idea is to make Colombia a regional hub for Pentagon operations." There are reports that the agreement provides Colombia with privileged access to US military supplies. Colombia had already become the leading recipient of US military aid. Colombia has had by far the worst human rights record in the hemisphere since the Central American wars of the 1980s wound down. The correlation between US aid and human rights violations has long been noted by scholarship....
Full article:
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/chomsky210310.html
Alan Grayson and Ron Paul are both right as to why we need to reign in out of control military spending because WAR IS A RACKET!:
frylock
(34,825 posts) think
(11,641 posts)while in college in the 1980's. It broke my heart to see the dark side of our great country and I have been antiwar ever since.
I am not against using force in our defense or having a strong military but I am against so many of the wars and "military interventions" we've done on behalf of corporations.
We all know why the Republicans want to bomb Iran. OIL & MONEY
Our American soldiers should not be sent to fight for corporate profits.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)- extend the honor of statehood to every country we protect and defend.
izquierdista
(11,689 posts).....Stop Right There! That makes you agree with Ron Paul.
Why? Because Ron Paul doesn't want the U.S. to do ANYTHING. Not collect taxes, not field an army, not regulate business, not a goddamned thing! Oh, except tell women what they should do with their naughty bits.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)No Medicare, no S. S. Just frigging drop dead. Dump 'em in the alleys, I guess, like trash.
Is he crazy? Hell yes. Just like the rest of the Psychopath Party.
''I’m for truth, no matter who tells it.'' ~Malcolm XThe "still think he's crazy"
wasnt my line its the line from the link.
And yes I think he is crazy also. Dont read into my post wrong. Did you watch the video? Its kind of strange what he said and has happen. Thats all.
I was not praising his crazness at all. What he said in the speech wasnt crazyness. Actually all the things he talked about most on the DU said the same stuff.
But as PeaceNikki said he believes in isolationism. Which I dont agree with. But
"Any liberal who thinks they agree with him on foreign affairs is either completely ignorant or terrifyingly misguided."
is a ignorant comment to say. Of course I dont agree with him completely on foreign affairs but I do agree with him that we shouldnt have invaded Iraq. Among other foreign affairs things he has said.
I dont want to be on here defending Paul because I do not support the guy. I just thought the video was very interesting.
Charronxyz
(119 posts)but i don't believe he is insane, insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, like voting for one of the two corporate parties in the hopes that things will change...
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)in·san·i·ty/inˈsanitē/
Noun:
1. The state of being seriously mentally ill; madness.
2. Extreme foolishness or irrationality.
Some examples of his incredibly obvious nutbaggery:
"The people that want big fences and guns, sure, we could secure the border. A barbed wire fence with machine guns, that would do the trick. I don't believe that is what America is all about ... Every time you think about the fence, think about the fences being used against us, keeping us in." –arguing that a border fence could be used against Americans, September 2011
"How about getting rid of the Department of Education and Department of Agriculture. Just go down the list. Get rid of it. Cut the budget in half. Everything that's not constitutional. That's a good place to start." –MSNBC interview, 2009
"The regulations are much tougher in a free market, because you cannot commit fraud, you cannot steal, you cannot hurt people, and the failure has come that government wouldn't enforce this. In the Industrial Revolution there was a collusion and you could pollute and they got away with it. But in a true free market in a libertarian society you can't do that. You have to be responsible. So the regulations would be tougher." - Interview from The Daily Show
Charronxyz
(119 posts)If I tell an obvious lie and you believe it, who is the fool ? RP is just another dishonest politician, he is not insane, he serves a purpose within the republican party, if that was not the case they would have gotten rid of him a long time ago.
We should be able to agree with some of the things he says without it becoming a big deal, and expose his dishonesty without resorting to insults.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)He'd be fine with a return to Jim Crow laws. You do realize that, don't you?
Charronxyz
(119 posts)Because it is counterproductive, and instead of educating RP supporters who may need the information you have, you are by extension insulting them also, and pushing them away.
Personally I believe the imperialist wars and occupations that RP opposes which has caused millions of death of yellow brown and black people across this planet is a bit worse than anything he could have said in the past, why not the same outrage for democratic and republican politicians who continue to support the US empire ?
redqueen
(115,103 posts)I'm just gonna end my interactions to you with this:
Welcome to DU, enjoy your stay. 
G'Obama
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)If anyone supports Ron Paul, they're choosing to ignore that he'd support Jim Crow laws.
There's my education for them. You're welcome.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Just read the threads, DU is full of Ron Paul supporters, Probably more support for Paul than there is for President Obama. At least that's what the posters that are afraid of him say in all the threads they start about him. Can't say I have read a thread started by an actual supporter.
I don't know Paul that well to be able to say he would support Jim Crow laws, but I do believe he would allow them. Small but significant difference.
Proved his point and missed mine.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)He wrote those newsletters & he lied about it! The newsletters are full of crazy far out conspiracies & anti-Semitic rants.
The man is a frequent guest on the Alex Jones Show which should disqualify him for any elected office.
He wants the States to have what he calls a "right" to discriminate, require religious test to vote & run for office! He has raged against the Incorporation Doctrine that forces States to comply with the Bill of Rights since he got into politics!
He packs the Budget Bill full of PORK to the tune of $400,000,000 then votes against it knowing it will pass! Then claim he is the only fiscally responsible person in Congress!
The man is not good for America...Folks get all caught up in ONE ISSUE & their critical thinking vanishes!
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)Other, NON-racist, and NON-insane people saw the same things coming.
Why jump on Ron Paul's bandwagon to pretend he's special?
PDJane
(10,103 posts)Always has been, and he's getting worse as he gets older.
The switch to a gold standard would be wrenching and cause supreme poverty at the lower end; there's not enough gold in the world to return to the gold standard.
Killing the fed isn't a good idea; making it an arm of the government and ensuring that someone who doesn't subscribe to the Friedmanite view of economics is in charge is a better idea.
I could go on, but why bother?
lumpy
(13,704 posts)what might occur considering past US involvment in other countries. Paul is good at pointing out some truths, however his solutions involve tearing down and dissolving working programs without filling in the gaps. Letting all the air out of the tires, so to speak, would only create flat tires.
Raffi Ella
(4,465 posts)I am appalled this is on our site. Fuck Ron Paul.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)Nothing he said was new or unheard of before. All of those predictions and projections existed elsewhere and none of them were surprising. I'm sorry but someone telling me that the sun is gonna rise doesn't count as much of a prediction.
Ron Paul may not be crazy and he may even identify the symptoms of what is wrong but he has a absurdly distorted idea of the causes and an utterly mad view of the solutions.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)He was wrong about as much as he was correct...And I find it IRONIC that he speaks about the Bill of Rights, or his IGNORANT FOLLOWERS DO, when Ron Paul has raged against the Incorporation Doctrine because he thinks the States should have what he calls the "right" to discriminate against whomever they choose like the good ole days! He thinks ONLY the Federal government should comply with the Bill of Rights not the States...Ron Paul from Texas, like so many Southern States, HATE the fact the Federal Government can force them to treat everyone the same! Plus, he like many Southerners want the ability to set up Christian Theocracies & deny folks the right to vote or run for office unless they profess their love for Jesus...Like the good ole days!
He is racist who wrote those newsletters! He praised, promoted & profited off of them for decades!
Ron Paul even thinks the Americans with Disabilities Act is unconstitutional!
THE MAN IS A NUT!
