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Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:31 PM

Noam Chomsky: Bernie Sander's Campaign Is Important & Impressive-He's doing good & Courageous things



if you go about 24 minutes into it (near the very end)Noam speaks bluntly about the Bernie Sanders campaign. It was quite refreshing (and encouraging, for me) to hear him call it "important and impressive... he is doing good and courageous things." I honestly can't remember Chomsky ever saying that about a candidate for president, who was part of one of the major political parties. But he does qualify the praise with a major caveat: If the campaign just runs its course and Sanders doesn't win, unless the campaign is established as an ongoing organized movement, everything will be for naught, and the opportunity wasted.



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/01/1443226/-Chomsky-s-conditional-Praise-of-Sanders-Candidacy

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Reply Noam Chomsky: Bernie Sander's Campaign Is Important & Impressive-He's doing good & Courageous things (Original post)
kpete Nov 2015 OP
daleanime Nov 2015 #1
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #2
jalan48 Nov 2015 #3
Duval Nov 2015 #10
dreamnightwind Nov 2015 #12
99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #4
raindaddy Nov 2015 #5
SmittynMo Nov 2015 #6
freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #7
99th_Monkey Nov 2015 #8
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #13
freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #15
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #16
freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #17
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #18
freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #19
passiveporcupine Nov 2015 #14
DhhD Nov 2015 #20
Lionel Mandrake Nov 2015 #9
Dont call me Shirley Nov 2015 #11
jwirr Nov 2015 #21
Duckfan Nov 2015 #22

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:38 PM

1. K&R....

Win or lose, we're not going away.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:45 PM

2. +1 nt

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:54 PM

3. Exactly.

Unfortunately for Third Way Democrats their strategy of putting their fingers in the crumbling dikes of our economy will not work. They are postponing the inevitable uprising of the populace against decades of trickle down failures. Their strategy only makes sense if the goal is ultimately for the betterment of the individual running for office.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 04:03 PM

10. K&R

 

No way will we go away!!

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 04:31 PM

12. Hopefully not, but under what organizational entity?

I'm of the opinion that we need an organizational home. It can exist within the Democratic Party (my preference) but we have to solidly establish ourselves as an entity that exists beyond a single campaign.

People have been calling it the Warren wing by default. That's fine but we need something not tied to one candidate, that these candidates (Bernie and Warren, who else?) would support.

There are some good groups like PDA, but I think we need something more like a caucus our movement could call home.

The Progressive causus is ok but sadly it is addicted to corporate money, and is more part of the problem that part of the solution, they're just the left-wing of the problem.

We need a caucus that will directly focus on electing candidates without corporate money. It's possible, but very difficult, and having an established clean brand that a candidate could join up with would help tremendously. It's very difficult for any candidate to run without accepting corporate money and defeat a corporate Democrat in the primary. They shouldn't have to do it on their own, we need a structure to help them.

I hear a lot of people say we aren't going away, but I don't see any substance to it. Unless we solidly build something, it will go away.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:56 PM

4. Thank you Noam!! But you are just another 'white Liberal guy' for Bernie.

 

I just had to say it, before the usual swarm of snark-heads beat me to it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 01:58 PM

5. Couragious!

A++++++

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:05 PM

6. One of the smartest guys on the planet

just nailed it.

So how do we get this message out to others?

Somehow this needs to be placed in the media. Even of it's just a 60 second spot. I wish Rachel would interview him, just to talk about Bernie.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:28 PM

7. Where's Chomsky get his facts?

He says what Bernie is doing will end with the election if Bernie doesn't get elected.

But I hear Bernie saying he is building a movement. If he loses, I have much hope that he will keep his movement going.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:38 PM

8. Noam qualifies that, in next sentence.

 

I think he was challenging Bernie & supporters to keep it up, even if he loses election; I don't
think he was dissing the political revolution, as much as pointing the way to sustainable change..

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:04 PM

13. You didn't listen carefully enough

He did not say if Bernie isn't elected the movement will die. He said once the election is over the movement is going to die (regardless of who wins). And statistically, he is right. People aren't willing to hang on to a revolution long enough to see it through...they will fight to get someone in office, and then they are done (most of them)...and they leave it up to the new President to "get things done". Even Obama said he needed us to keep fighting for change. And Bernie has been very specific on this.

We need to keep this alive, regardless of who takes office in 2017.

We need to keep this revolution alive if we want to see progress.

We can not get Bernie voted in and then sit back complacently and let him try to force congress and Washington to change.

He needs us...now and later. Will we be there?

He told Clinton that all the screaming and shouting won't get anything done, but he is wrong about one thing...if we the people stop screaming and shouting at our congressmen, nothing will ever change. And our vote is extremely important from local politics on up.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #13)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:22 PM

15. In fact he did say that if Bernie doesn't get elected the movement will die.

"When the election's over the movement's gonna die." He didn't qualify it, so it applies even if Bernie is not elected.

I don't like your accusatory tone.

I certainly agree that we need to keep the movement alive regardless of who wins the election. I don't know why Chomsky thinks we won't.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:35 PM

16. No, listen again. I went back and listened again to make sure.

As you say, he said when the election is over the movement is going to die. He was talking about Bernie at that time. He never said if Bernie is not elected the movement will die. His whole point was that even though Bernie was doing a great thing with his grass roots movement, it would not outlive the election.

And that is a lesson we all need to take to heart. That's not what Bernie wants, but it is statistically they way this country behaves. So lets prove him wrong.

And I'm sorry if you thought I was accusing you of something. The only thing I was pointing out is that he was not saying that if Bernie wins, the movement continues.

Accusing you of hearing something wrong is not that big a deal...everyone does it.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #16)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:57 PM

17. I guess we agree on the important stuff, if not on everything.

You're right that he was not saying that if Bernie wins the movement continues. I was more focused on what happens if Bernie doesn't win, because that puts us in much deeper doo-doo, at least in the near future.

He did say that if Bernie is not elected the movement will die. He did not include a qualification about whether or not Bernie gets elected, so both cases (Bernie does get elected and Bernie does not get elected) are included. He did not say the movement will die only if Bernie does not get elected. Did I ever say he did?

"You didn't listen carefully enough" is not an accusation? I think you were accusing me of not listening carefully enough. Starting a reply with an accusation is . . . not necessary. There are plenty of more polite ways to say you heard something differently.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #17)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 06:10 PM

18. Not to be nitpicky...sorry I am OCD

He did say that if Bernie is not elected the movement will die.


this is me typing a transcript as he talks:

"Take (take? not sure if this is correct) say the Bernie Sander's campaign, which I think is important, impressive, he's doing good and courageous things. He's organizing a lot of people. That campaign ought to be directed to sustaining a popular movement, which will use the election as a kind of incentive, but then go on...and unfortunately, it's not. When the election's over, the movement's going to die, and that's a serious error. The only thing that's going to ever bring about any meaningful change is ongoing dedicated popular movements, which don't pay attention to the election cycle. It's an extravaganza every four years. You have to be involved in it, so fine, we'll be involved in it, but then we go on. If that were done, you could get major changes.


But, yes, we are agreeing on the most important part of his message.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #18)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 06:43 PM

19. Looks to me like we agree on everything at this point.

"When the election's over, the movement's going to die."

That means he said that if Bernie is or is not elected, the movement will die.

That means he did say that if Bernie is not elected the movement will die.

And I seriously hope he's wrong.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 05:16 PM

14. Yes, he said we are building a movement

If he loses the primary, I'd like to see him take over as leader of "The People's Movement"...as a full time job, and help this movement coalesce and grow till we take our country back from the oligarchs.

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Response to freedom fighter jh (Reply #7)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 08:09 PM

20. If we keep the Movement going, the Revolution to un-seat the GOP and New Democrats of

triangulation, we would be able to change Congress over, every two years, to more and more lawmakers that will vote out Citizens United and vote for President Sanders' Policies, Plans and Bills.

FDR lost his Congress, in the 1938 election. In 1939 a recession started. Then war came.

This -- Conservapedia -- explains what GOP and New Democrats did to take down FDR in 1938:
http://www.conservapedia.com/1938_Midterm_Elections

1938
In the midterm elections of 1938 the Republican Party gained 81 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives and six seats in the U.S. Senate from the Democratic Party.

Republicans had lost seats in both houses of Congress in 1930, 1932, 1934, and 1936. Their totals were a mere 88 seats in the House and 16 seats in the Senate. Following President Franklin D. Roosevelt's landslide reelection in 1936, he attempted to pack the Supreme Court with six new justices to neutralize conservative Justices who struck down some of his New Deal programs as unconstitutional. It received backlash from his own party as an overreach of executive power.
more at link

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 02:57 PM

9. Noam Chomsky is awesome.

A few minutes of Noam Chomsky are more illuminating than hours and hours of "debates" among presidential contenders. There's much more to think about in this interview than Chomsky's praise of Bernie Sanders, gratifying though that praise is.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 04:03 PM

11. Thank you, Mr Chomsky!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:04 PM

21. Chomsky is right that we need to keep on fighting and he is

also right that voting coalitions usually fall apart right after the election is over. Part if that is because many assume this is all just about getting someone elected.

But another truth is also part of what we are doing. We really do not go anywhere. Us activists and determined voters are still out here. From the FDR voters like me to the JFK voters to the McGovern voters to John Edwards voters to Bernie Saunders voters there is a direct line. We were always liberals/progressives. We have always pretty much wanted the same things from the beginning. So it is not us that fall apart.

Chomsky is correct what we lack is a structure that will keep us working toward those goals even when there is no election.

So what kind of structures would fulfill that need? It is obvious that the Third Way is such a group and do this for the centrists. Long ago the PNAC did the same for the Rs. Both are small powerful groups that are not the Party but work outside of the party.

Where do we find our leadership if Bernie loses and then again if he wins how do we organize our support for him.

That is my thoughts for right now. I am a bit tired as I went trick and treating with great grandkids on Saturday and a birthday party today and this evening the family went to play bingo at a fundraiser for the local fire department. My mind is not exactly on politics but I just wanted to say that I agree with this post.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Nov 1, 2015, 11:43 PM

22. It looks like #18 beat me to the punch.

I'll take it a step further. We have to keep our foot on the gas peddle. I heard that from somewhere sometime ago, but appropriate here.

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