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Wed Jul 29, 2015, 08:44 AM

Clinton & the Coup: Amid Protests in Honduras, Ex-President on Hillary’s Role in His 2009 Ouster





Published on Jul 28, 2015

http://democracynow.org - In Honduras, as many as 25,000 people marched Friday demanding the resignation of Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández. The protests come six years after a coup ousted Honduras’s democratically elected President Manuel Zelaya. In an exclusive interview, Zelaya talks about the new protest movement, the fallout from the 2009 coup, and Hillary Clinton’s role in his ouster. "On the one hand, [the Obama administration] condemned the coup, but on the other hand, they were negotiating with the leaders of the coup," Zelaya said. "And Secretary Clinton lent herself to that, maintaining that ambiguity of U.S. policy to Honduras, which has resulted in a process of distrust and instability of Latin American governments in relation to U.S. foreign policies." While the United States publicly supported Zelaya’s return to power, newly released emails show Clinton was attempting to set up a back channel of communication with Roberto Micheletti, who was installed as Honduran president after the coup. In one email, Clinton referenced lobbyist and former President Clinton adviser Lanny Davis. She wrote, "Can he help me talk w Micheletti?" At the time, Davis was working for the Honduran chapter of the Business Council of Latin America, which supported the coup. In another email, Thomas Shannon, the State Department’s lead negotiator for the Honduras talks, refers to Manuel Zelaya as a "failed" leader.



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Reply Clinton & the Coup: Amid Protests in Honduras, Ex-President on Hillary’s Role in His 2009 Ouster (Original post)
marmar Jul 2015 OP
think Jul 2015 #1
newthinking Jul 2015 #23
think Jul 2015 #25
think Jul 2015 #2
RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #4
think Jul 2015 #6
uhnope Jul 2015 #26
think Jul 2015 #28
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #14
RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #15
jalan48 Jul 2015 #3
zeemike Jul 2015 #5
truth2power Jul 2015 #7
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2015 #8
DLnyc Jul 2015 #18
MisterP Jul 2015 #32
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2015 #9
DLnyc Jul 2015 #10
RufusTFirefly Jul 2015 #12
ieoeja Jul 2015 #13
DLnyc Jul 2015 #17
ieoeja Jul 2015 #37
newthinking Jul 2015 #22
GoneFishin Jul 2015 #11
think Jul 2015 #16
MisterP Jul 2015 #31
iandhr Jul 2015 #19
Fuddnik Jul 2015 #20
iandhr Jul 2015 #21
Fuddnik Jul 2015 #24
virtualobserver Jul 2015 #27
uhnope Jul 2015 #29
think Jul 2015 #30
uhnope Jul 2015 #33
think Jul 2015 #34
uhnope Jul 2015 #35
think Jul 2015 #36

Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:05 AM

1. Hillary Clinton needs to be asked why she as SoS did not condemn this coup d'etat

 

and work to restore the lawfully elected president of Honduras.

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Response to think (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:53 PM

23. Our objective is no longer democracy. It is economic, ideological, and other interests

we only follow rules that people recognize in our propaganda and public statements. Privately, everything is on the table and most any democratic or other good principle is for sale if it fits some powerful interest.

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Response to newthinking (Reply #23)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:25 PM

25. Agree. Human trafficking in Malaysia being reclassified so they can be approved for the TPP

 

is a another perfect example of this:

Key Shift on Malaysia Before Trans-Pacific Partnership Deal

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG and JOE COCHRANEJULY 27, 2015


Human remains were retrieved on May 2 from a mass grave in Thailand's southern Songkhla Province near the border with Malaysia. Credit Damir Sagolj/Reuters


WASHINGTON — With the Obama administration pushing to conclude a vast Asian trade pact, the State Department on Monday upgraded its assessment of Malaysia’s efforts to combat human trafficking, a move that could ease the country’s inclusion in the trade deal.

Though the human trafficking report from the State Department is released annually, this year it carries added weight because of the administration’s desire to make final the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade agreement spanning the Pacific Rim.

Congress recently granted President Obama fast-track powers to complete negotiations on the deal, but it included a caveat that prohibited him from doing so with countries listed in Tier 3 of the State Department report — that is, countries that are not making a significant effort to combat human trafficking....

Full article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/world/asia/thailands-low-ranking-in-human-trafficking-report-could-hamper-trade-deal.html


Exclusive - U.S. upgrades Malaysia in annual human trafficking report: sources

By Jason Szep, Patricia Zengerle and Matt Spetalnick - JUL 9, 2015 - 04:47

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States is upgrading Malaysia from the lowest tier on its list of worst human trafficking centres, U.S. sources said on Wednesday, a move that could smooth the way for an ambitious U.S.-led free-trade deal with the Southeast Asian nation and 11 other countries.

The upgrade to so-called "Tier 2 Watch List" status removes a potential barrier to President Barack Obama's signature global trade deal.

~Snip~

The State Department last year downgraded Malaysia in its annual "Trafficking in Persons" report to Tier 3, alongside North Korea, Syria and Zimbabwe, citing "limited efforts to improve its flawed victim protection regime" and other problems.

~Snip~

MALAYSIAN GRAVES

Lawmakers are working on a compromise that would let Malaysia and other countries appearing on a U.S. black-list for human trafficking participate in fast-tracked trade deals if the administration verified that they have taken concrete steps to address the most important issues identified in the annual trafficking report.The graves were found in an area long known for the smuggling of Rohingya and local villagers reported seeing Rohingya in the area, but Malaysia's Deputy Home (Interior) Minister Wan Junaidi Tuanku Jaafar has said it was unclear whether those killed were illegal migrants. The discovery took place after the March cut-off for the U.S. report.

~Snip~

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/exclusive---u-s--upgrades-malaysia-in-annual-human-trafficking-report--sources/41538528


Palm-Oil Migrant Workers Tell of Abuses on Malaysian Plantations

By SYED ZAIN AL-MAHMOOD
July 26, 2015 1:55 p.m. ET


~Snip~

The plantation where Mr. Rubel works is controlled by Felda Global Ventures, a semiautonomous company set up by Malaysia’s government and one of the largest producers of crude palm oil. Its customers, according to U.S. customs and shipping data, include Minnesota-based Cargill Inc., which resells the oil to multinationals such as Nestlé SA and Procter & Gamble Co.

Felda said workers on its plantations, nearly 85% of them foreigners, are afforded basic rights and earn the minimum wage. Cargill and its customers said they weren’t aware of alleged labor abuses on palm-oil plantations and would investigate.

Mr. Rubel’s employer is one of the labor contractors that supply much of Felda’s workforce. It is while employed by contractors, rather than directly for Felda, that abuses such as the withholding of pay are most common, workers said.

“They buy and sell us like cattle,” said one 25-year-old Bangladeshi, who said he had been shunted among three contractors for six months without receiving any pay.


~Snip~

The boats are still coming to Malaysia, despite the onset of monsoon season. The Thai coast guard in mid-June spotted several, each carrying more than 500 people it said were migrants on their way to Malaysia.

Full article:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/palm-oil-migrant-workers-tell-of-abuses-on-malaysian-plantations-1437933321

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:12 AM

2. Clinton worked to create back channel communications with the soon to be dictator Roberto Micheletti

 

How Kissingeresque of her.....

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Response to think (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:38 AM

4. That was my first thought, too!



Just spreading a little love, I guess.

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:50 AM

6. Yep. Nixon used Kissenger for a back channel with Brazil to help overthrow Allende in Chile

 

Brazil Conspired with U.S. to Overthrow Allende



Declassified U.S. Documents Show Richard Nixon and Brazilian President Emilio Médici Discussed Coordinated Intervention in Chile, Cuba, and other Latin American nations "to prevent new Allendes and Castros"

Secret Back Channel established between Presidents

Brazilian General Accused U.S. of Asking Brazil to "do its dirty work"

National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 282

Posted - August 16, 2009


Washington, D.C., August 16, 2009 - In December 1971, President Richard Nixon and Brazilian President Emilio Garrastazú Médici discussed Brazil’s role in efforts to overthrow the elected government of Salvador Allende in Chile, formerly Top Secret records posted by the National Security Archive today reveal. According to a declassified memorandum of conversation, Nixon asked Médici whether the Chilean military was capable of overthrowing Allende. “He felt that they were…,” Médici replied, “and made clear that Brazil was working toward this end.”

~Snip~

The memcon records Nixon telling Médici that he “hoped we could cooperate closely, as there were many things that Brazil as a South American country could do that the U.S. could not.” Indeed, the documentation reveals that Nixon believed that a special relationship with Brazil was so important that he proposed a secret back-channel between the two presidents “as a means of communicating directly outside of normal diplomatic channels.” Médici named his private advisor and foreign minister Gibson Barbosa as his backchannel representative, but told Nixon that for “extremely private and delicate matters” Brazil would use Col. Manso Netto. Nixon named Kissinger as his representative for the special back channel.

~Snip~

In 2002, National Security Archive analyst Carlos Osorio posted a declassified Top Secret memorandum of conversation of Nixon’s meeting with British Prime Minister Edward Heath dated December 20, 1971, during which the two discussed Brazil’s role in South America. “Our position is supported by Brazil, which is after all the key to the future,” states Nixon, “The Brazilians helped rig the Uruguayan election... There are forces at work which we are not discouraging."

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB282/

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Response to think (Reply #6)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:35 PM

26. Do you think the two coups are remotely comparable?

 

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Response to uhnope (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:52 PM

28. Yes. 2 democratically elected presidents were overthrown. In both cases back channels were created

 

and used while the military coups took place.

Were the circumstances identical? No. But the results both ended with a democratically elected official being overthrown while the SoS was using back channels to communicate with those involved in the coups....

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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:39 AM

14. That picture of Clinton with Kissinger is horrible!

 

This one is much better



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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:50 AM

15. Nice!! Can't you just feel the love? n/t

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:27 AM

3. Very enlightening piece on Honduras.

Especially at the end where the military is shown removing Zelaya and other protesters from the National Congress. Transnational corporate pressure for 'regime change'. Where have we heard this before?

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:46 AM

5. Another edition of things you will not hear about in the MSM.

Thank god for people like Amye Goodman and Democracy Now.

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:53 AM

7. Thanks, marmar...

It's been only about an hour since you posted the OP. The gatekeepers will be along shortly. *sigh*

You are truly a "Submarine in the Desert". (It's a good thing.) It refers to 'that which shall be named'. There are many of us out there.

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 09:59 AM

8. The Sanders campaign would be NUTS to let this go.

 

Last edited Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:02 PM - Edit history (1)

Let. Sec. Clinton 'splain her actions/inactions relative to the imposition and maintenance of what can only be regarded as fascism in Honduras and elsewhere around the hemisphere.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:39 AM

18. Yes, particularly since the left in Central America is very much tied to the labor movement

It seems to me that US labor unions have not always been great at allying with labor movements in other counties. But I would argue that labor rights (or lack thereof) in low-wage countries have a very direct effect on wages here.

I don't think I've heard very much from Bernie on international relations. When he does get to it, I hope he emphasizes the connection between these right wing coups and the corporate oligarchs here and around the world!

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:58 PM

32. especially if she wants to play the "TRUE sword and shield of Blacks and gays and women" against the

"white progressivesTM" who have to be humbled, brought to heel, made to apologize

are the Garífuna not "Black"? are Honduras's brutalized and murdered women and transsexuals and gay men not in the groups that Sanders is "ignoring"?

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Response to marmar (Original post)


Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:07 AM

10. A stain on both Obama's presidency and Hillary Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State

Perhaps this would be a good time for them to change course and lend support to the people of Honduras, rather than the criminal banksters of the world.

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Response to DLnyc (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:23 AM

12. Don't worry. Clinton will be much better as President!!

And once she's elected (but not before!), she'll tell us why.

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Response to DLnyc (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:30 AM

13. One of the "multiple" times the Obama administration disavowed itself from her remarks.

 


Can that be said of any other Secretary of State? That might very well make her the worst SoS in the entire history of the United States.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:33 AM

17. When was that? Which remarks?

I don't think I heard about this before.

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Response to DLnyc (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 04:13 PM

37. She made some positive remark about the new government in Honduras.

 


The White House had to walk it back as they were (and by extension, the United States was) not recognizing the legitimacy of the new Honduran government. And there was at least one other time she made some remark on a Middle Eastern matter that the White House disavowed.

And then, of course, there was the Special Envoy to the Middle East. He reported to State before Obama took office. Obama had the Envoy bypass State and report directly to the White House his first term in office. As soon as Kerry was sworn in as Secretary of State, Obama had the Envoy moved back to State!

That is probably the most damning evidence that Hillary's position at State was purely a political horse trade. She works for his election after the convention. He gives her State shorn of the most serious responsibility.


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Response to DLnyc (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:44 PM

22. It is a continuation (amplification) of "democracy promotion" (which has little to do with democracy

and much to do with geopolitical and economic manipulation.

Just because we have the capability to fuck with other countries is not a good reason to do so. The US has been using not only Machiavellian and anti democratic methodologies but has been using promises of personal wealth (essentially bribery) to create alliances.

This does not work and is actually quietly destroying the basis of growing cleaner democracies.

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 10:13 AM

11. Their refusal to call it by it's true name says a lot : "Military Coup".

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:25 AM

16. ^This^

 

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Response to GoneFishin (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:51 PM

31. there's always a song and dance around this: first they say it wasn't a coup, then the red-baiters

come out (the same who said Reagan was a pinko after 1987 and said annually the USSR was plotting an overthrow 1992-5), then they went and said "look at all the righties who say the White House's pro-Zelaya," then they said the DoS COULDN'T ever have anything to do with it before or after the fact, and then they said--

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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 11:40 AM

19. If I remember correctly.

This "legitimate leader" tried end term limits and the courts in Honduras said it was illegal and then he was ousted after he didn't comply.

If a right wing leader did this no one would be defending him here.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:04 PM

20. No, that's the bullshit excuse the Junta used.

They claimed, without evidence, that he discussed that in a private conversation. He denied it, and never did try to circumvent term limits.

Nice try though.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:31 PM

21. " He denied it"

Ah got it. I am supposed to take him at his word.


I guess LA leaders never blame America for the problems they created then.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 12:57 PM

24. There was no evidence. Period.

Just a concocted story. He managed to piss off the wrong businessmen and North American countries.

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Response to iandhr (Reply #21)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 01:51 PM

27. think about what you just typed

 

there are two possibilities

1. A president supposedly says something in private about ending term limits. His government is overthrown by the military.

2. His enemies make something up and his government is overthrown by the military.

and your response is "Ah got it. I am supposed to take him at his word"?





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Response to marmar (Original post)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:34 PM

29. I left my tinfoil hat at home. Can someone explain this conspiracy to me?

 

It seems to me that a center-left politician took over in place of Zelaya. That doesn't sound much like the kind of coup that the US helped cause in Chile way back in the bad old days.

Also, Zelaya was fiddling with the Constitution to dispose of term limits. In Central America, that equals president-for-life. How is Zelaya a fallen hero?

Zelaya is alive and free to have a chat with Amy Goodman. Again, what kind of coup is this, anyway?

In fact, what Zelaya seems to be complaining about is that the US did not interfere in Honduran politics enough--that the US should have used force to stop his ouster.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #29)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 02:49 PM

30. The UN condemned the coup while Clinton set up back channel talks with the new dictator.

 

And bullshit on all your other unsubstantiated allegations.....

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Response to think (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:07 PM

33. Where was I wrong? Can you provide links?

 

What BS are you calling on me?
Roberto Micheletti is not center-left?
Zelaya is not alive and well and serving in parliament and appearing on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman?
Zelaya was not fiddling with the Constitution?
Sorry, aren't these all facts?
I'm no fan of Clinton but it seems to me that the US was using its presence to manage the conflict and make sure it didn't turn into a bloody civil war or something.

Honestly, I don't get it. It seems like CTers living in the past really want the US to be orchestrating evil coups.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #33)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:11 PM

34. Was this a coup or not? Was Zelayua the elected president or not? Please provide your evidence that

 

he "fiddled" with the constitution.

Did Clinton call out the coup like the United Nations General Assembly?


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Response to think (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:26 PM

35. Wow so you're heated up about this but don't know about the Constitutional crisis that preceded

 

Zelaya's ouster?

Do some research please


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Response to uhnope (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 29, 2015, 03:30 PM

36. A referendum is NOT fiddling.

 

It was a ballot issue.

HUGE difference....

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