Rachel Maddow - Powerful anti gun ad panics gun rights groups

[Galraedia]

[classof56]

1. K&R for wow...just wow. Oh, and I love Rachel!

[Fred Sanders]

2. The Ted Nugent loving NRA knows full well, like the GOP, that truth is the mortal enemy.

[Maraya1969]

3. I wish they would do this in FL. And in Texas and every other gun lovers state.

[Rebl]

37. I'd

like to add Kansas and Missouri to that list. Kansas wants to allow people not to have to go through ant training or any kind of permit any longer. For some reason that will attract gun manufacturers to the state. I'm sure Missouri will want to do the same thing. They feel they have to do whatever KS. does.

[eggplant]

4. Most excellent.

Reminds me of the jail scene in To Kill A Mockingbird, where Scout shuts down a mob one person at a time.

I hope this takes off.

[world wide wally]

5. Brilliant

[OverBurn]

6. It sure was powerful, made me cry.

[calimary]

13. Welcome to DU, OverBurn!

Glad you're here! This is EXACTLY what we need. Stuff that grabs the gut. Stuff that hits the emotions. Stuff that cuts through the frank-luntz-focus-group-tested talking points and sloganeering that completely distorts the image, but is clever and manipulatively designed and sounds awfully good.

I just tear my hair sometimes wondering WHY our side doesn't fight HARDER and, okay, YES: MEANER AND NASTIER. We need to do what the bad guys do. And before anybody jumps out and says - "oh nooooooo! We CAN'T do that! It makes us no better than the opposition is" - I will jump in preemptively and point out: this is politics. It's a dirty game. Hitting below the belt is okay. Pulling this shit gets you the brass ring. YOU WIN WHEN YOU PULL THIS SHIT. YOU WIN when you tilt the playing field. And as long as they've been able to tilt the playing field (by running the table in state-wide elections, with republi-CON governors and republi-CON secretaries-of-state, and republic-CON majorities in the state senates and assemblies who have the backing of koch brothers money and ALEC that writes their Neanderthal agenda-driven bills (that then can set up legal battles to be argued all the way to the Supreme Court), they win. Because then they can gerrymander districts to tilt the playing field artificially and UN-naturally in their favor. And they can maintain majorities in the House of Reps - even though there were/are more than a MILLION more Democratic votes than votes for the GOP. THAT is NOT democracy, okay???

So if they're gonna cheat like that, and rig the game and KEEP the game rigged because they've artificially contrived to gain majorities they have no right BY THE NUMBERS to have, then I think the only way we can win is to cheat back. Hijack their strategies and turn them toward DEMOCRATIC PARTY goals and PROGRESSIVE goals and LIBERAL goals. We're going to have to "help" the pendulum swing back where it otherwise would naturally, except the other side has already "helped" it get stuck swinging farther and farther to the so-called "right." And if it takes devious means to do so then so be it.

All we would be doing in this case would be correcting an artificially contrived, imposed, and phony-as-hell "fix." A "fix" that does NOT reflect the population as it exists in the real world (which the other side repeatedly and deliberately chooses to ignore and try to freeze out and to silence). All we would be doing is tilting the playing field BACK to a state of normalcy and true balance. NOT the lopsided, one-sided-biased "fair and balanced" "balance" bullshit as the other side defines it. How 'bout balance the way WE define it for a change?

[zebonaut]

35. Yes; we need to fight Meaner and Nastier. This is a tiny step

[daleanime]

42. Amen.....

we have a lot to fight for.

[Jon82]

7. Gave me chills

Very powerful. Everyone should see this.

[calimary]

15. Welcome to DU, Jon82!

Good to have you with us! MAN we need more stuff like this. We need more approaches like this. Heck, reality is on OUR side. Why don't we make use of it - and exploit it? Nothing like a dose of reality to outshout the bullshit we hear from the NRA, the gun nuts, and those who are now being referred to as "ammosexuals." (Which I think is clever as all-get-out! Who thought that one up? I wish I knew who did so I could credit them whenever I reference it. Whoever did is a freakin' GENIUS!!!!)

[Jon82]

41. Thank you for the welcome

The idea is so simple and old but has never been used in such a brilliant way. Everyone has heard the stories of what is more likely to happen if a gun is in a home. Everyone has seen the horrible, tragic news coverages of shooting massacres. Not everyone has had to face it head on and had their general ideas and beliefs about guns challenged by using such a strong example. It is completely understandable why those against this video are panicking to find a way to counter its message.

[erronis]

18. Agree - very powerful.

Wonder how the overlords of the repugs will try to get bills pass that outlaw "deceitful gun advertising"?

With enough intelligent people like the ones that produced this segment, we can get the NRA/repugs/RWNuts all tied into a pretzel so they are suing themselves.

[Cooley Hurd]

8. The premise of selling potential gun buyers weapons actually used in mass murder...

...is both poignant and brilliant. And it drives the point home in the most base way. The point cannot be misunderstood.

[Electric Monk]

23. Oh, the point can, and has been, misunderstood. Just check out this thread from DU's own Gungeon

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172163317

The gun humpers don't like it one bit.

[Skittles]

44. fuck the gun humpers

stupid paranoid cowards - seriously, F*** THEM

[Electric Monk]

48. +1

[A Round Tuit]

9. And at the top of the page...

there is an ad for the NRA.

Join for 25.00 and get a free duffel bag.

Yes, yes, I know, not everyone sees these ads and the ads are not the same for all those that do see them, but it makes me wonder why we would have this type of ad on a liberal site in the first place, particularly at the header of this type of posting.

Not attacking...just pointing out the irony.

And also wondering just where I have been on the web for the adware to throw that ad onto my computer?

I'm not a gun person.

I also see ads for Scott Walker and some kind of RW nut job t-shirts, and other non-liberal stuff. (Some of which does look interesting, but I'm not gonna click on it and get it for the rest of my natural life.)

And I am also aware that if I donate to DU, up to a certain amount, I can eliminate all the ads.

I cannot afford that...paying to just get on the damned internet costs enough.

[marym625]

11. I understand the ads

I understand that there are liberals who think the 2nd amendment means everyone has a right to own and openly carry every type of gun. I couldn't disagree more but I know they exist.

But the NRA? That is not cool.

[calimary]

16. Welcome to DU, A Round Tuit!

Great to have you here, too! Especially with this point you're making. No way should there be an NRA ad finding its way onto a message like this one. I notice the ads out there sneaking into places where they don't belong - like the Newsmax crap in the margins of Raw Story and Daily Kos and a slew of others. It's even happened here on DU, and a few sharp-eyed activists have pointed it out. These people on the other side are VERY shrewd. And they sneak stuff past us all the time. Witness, for example, only the most recent example, where these bastards tried to sneak anti-choice language into the human trafficking bill that's now tying up Loretta Lynch's AG nomination. They tried to sneak language in and it ALMOST worked. Our side didn't even notice til almost too late.

And WTF is with that? Is our side still THAT naive??? Are you freakin' kidding me??? It's just astounding to me how gullible and naive our side STILL is, after all these years fighting an opposition that's as sneaky and slick as oiled eels. I'm aghast at how little our side has learned in all these years. Still takin' 'em at their word. Still believing their bullshit. And then getting their asses handed to them on the end of a fork, over and over and over again.

[erronis]

19. I hope you're right - that our side is still just naive

My more visceral instincts say that our side is at best conflicted, perhaps lazy and overwhelmed with their money-grubbing, and at worst complicit.

[calimary]

25. Oh, I think you're spot-on here. But I would absolutely add "naive" to the list.

I think all the points you make here are totally accurate. They are all those things. But naive too.

I think there's a deep-down thing among us liberals especially - that whole empathy thing, that whole compassion thing, because we're just wired differently than the other side is. They all scoff at such "useless," "pointless," and downright "stupid" things. They laugh and they sneer and they scoff. They revel in how often we get rolled by their sneaky-ass shenanigans. How we don't think like they do - calculating and manipulating. I think that's basically because of who we are as liberals. And because of that, I think we need to toughen up.

I'd like to know who was in charge of reading that human trafficking bill where the anti-choice language was stealth-slithered in. I'm sure it was some staffer. Who has time to look through all that, when you're a Senator or even a Congressmember - especially if you're not automatically predisposed to be suspicious of the other side? I'm just talking practicality. I'm sure most of these folks delegated authority here. But I'd like to know. Get them some help, and many other eyeballs to be looking at this shit through a frickin' microscope! And if they still can't then OUT! GONE! Get somebody else in those jobs with a sharper eye and a more ruthless, calculating mind. Somebody who'd rather go to a gunfight armed with an assault rifle instead of a feather duster. I want people working for our leaders who go in EXPECTING to be stealth-screwed, so that's what they're gonna be on the alert looking for.

And I don't think that attitude prevails on our side. I hate to use the derisive term about how our side is so "kumbaya." Fuck that shit. Not in THIS climate. "Kumbaya" attitudes just get rolled. I want people working on our side who are far more bloodthirsty. That's the climate. That's the template. That's what we're stuck with, whether we like it or not. And frankly, I DON'T like it. I wish we could all work, the two basic sides, openly and in a straightforward manner, instead of that side stopping at nothing to sneak shit by us. But as long as THEY continue to behave this way, WE have no other choice but to recognize this challenge for what it is, meet it head-on - and beat it all to Hell.

[erronis]

30. I expect that most of the staffers are opportunists and looking for the next big gig.

Take any 20-25yo and give them some minimal power inside of the halls of congress and all they are going to want is more power (and more sex, $$$, etc.) Caring about idealism is just a bit of icing on their resume cake, and if it is repuglican or democrat - so what. After all, they just need to look at their employers (congress-things) to understand which side of their bread is buttered.

Maybe I am really naive here - please correct me. Aren't all of these documents (proposed bills and amendments) submitted with some form of change tracking? You know - where if a word is changed/added/deleted it will show up with lots of colors/squiggles? Or is this anti-american, perhaps demeaning of our intelligent representatives? Are we still killing trees in the names of the people?

[calimary]

38. That's a VERY worthwhile question. I don't know what the delivery system is anymore.

It's been a long time since I've been to a DC Senator's or Congressmember's offices.

[freshwest]

24. Eliminate the ads with and adblock add-on to your browser. That's what I did before paying. Also,

Google ads fund the website and they use the words in the threads to place the ads. Whatever company or group that is paying them is what they put on the pages.

Going to youtube to watch a video by Obama, unless it's the official channel, results in a RWNJ poll question on the screen. Because youtube was sold to, or partnered with, Google.

Cookies giving permission to follow your online searches are granted when you view a Twitter or Facebook account, not just from being signed into an account. Tbhey will keep giving permission until you delete or forbid them.

In order to delete the cookies, you must set your browser to delete when you close your browser down. I use NoScript on Firefox, to avoid the ads and reduce loading time. This can result in an inability to view certain pages, or even freeze up the browser attempting to load them though, but not DU.

I don't know what other browsers have to block ads, but those are my two solutions for you.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. "I don't know what other browsers have to block ads"

Ghostery (which works on Firefox) is a good supplement to the others you mention and I believe it was thanks to a DU recommendation that prompted me to check it out and use it.

[freshwest]

28. It was a DUer who mailed me with information on DU2 to use NoScript. To stop the PETA ads of bloody

animal carcasses that were on all the pages, day after day.

Thanks for the mentions of Ghostery for those who are able to install it.

Ghostery is one I've heard of here, too, but been unable to add as my browser is old, and my OS hardware no longer plays with new versions.

The tip about adjusting my cookies on FF came from a DUer, too, so that's what I do now. But not often enough, really.

Besides, the Koch brothers bought a database for the GOP that records all data from shopping, browsing, emails and all things for over 300 million people in the USA. And we should shudder to think what they will do with it if they get back into full power to stifle dissent.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. I'm still running

Firefox 33.0.1 on Linux (there were a couple add-ons that I didn't want to lose with the higher versions). And have run NoScript and a couple extensions that explicitly return the old "Clear Private Data" (and "Clear History&quot pop-up.

DU really is a wealth of info!

[freshwest]

32. Ha! I'm still running Firefox 3.6. I refused to give up what I had. When I can't access websites,

I open up Safari. I installed a form of ad-blocker on it but it lets just about everything in without permissions. My FF blocks sounds and videos so I don't have to deal with lowering volume, hearing ear worms or take the time to load them.

I don't like the Safari format, as I set FF to my favorite background color and my preferred font colors, style and size. Safari is a lot of work for some things.

I'd really have to jump into the deep end of the pool to switch over to Linux. I refused to update iTunes because it lost too many options that work better. I'm getting behind on stuff. DU works for me in Classic mode, better than my email, etc.

[BumRushDaShow]

36. I hear ya!

I don't like Safari and I am trying to avoid any further iTunes updates. Seems the more they change, the worse the functionality gets.

[erronis]

31. Block most sh1t using Privacy Badger by the EFF

https://www.eff.org/privacybadger

It is open source and is guaranteed to be non-commercial.

I combine multiple filters in my browsers. Sometimes things like AdBlock are found to actually sell browsing activities to the highest bidders.

In Chrome there is also "uBlock" (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm) and for the technically inclined uMatrix.

I also highly recommend using a VPN such as Private Internet Access to prevent ISPs reading your traffic.

[freshwest]

33. Thanks, sounds good.

[marym625]

10. anything that pisses off the NRA is fine by me.

K&R

[louis-t]

12. Very encouraging. I miss Rachel.

My satellite tv has been shut off for a month now. Thought I wouldn't miss it. I need to pay the bill and get it back.

[locks]

14. I wish the ad could be on every

radio and TV channel immediately after the NRA ads.

[3catwoman3]

17. Absolutely brilliant!

Freak away, NRA.

I hope this is wildly successful.

[erronis]

20. One first glance, I thought your title line read "Fire away, NRA."

I feel like sometimes we poke at a hornet's nest to provoke it, so we can then destroy the nest with justification.

However in the NRA's case they have been doing the provocations. To what end, I'm not sure.

[DreamSmoker]

22. I found this interesting..

I am a rare breed... I am a Liberal who owns and believes in that Right to own those Guns..
When you own. That Ownership carries a Moral responsibility always... Guns are tools designed for one purpose... Though used in target shooting for Hobby and Competition...
Millions of Law abiding Gun Owner know this..
To Understand the Gun and its existence is the know a huge chunk of World history..
Gun Ownership is not a new issue.. It started way before this Country existed..
Believe me when I say I do understand both sides..
But I stand tall and strong against anyone who tries to take any of our Rights as Americans away..
Those rights were fought for with the Blood of Americans who died fighting to maintain those rights for future generations of Americans and to maintain a well armed Population...
Our freedom and rights for all is under attack today.. be it the Gun to restricted Voting...
When you understand the Gun and know the History.. It becomes clear..
We in America today have social issues, prejudice, and Crime ...
Those need to be addressed first and up most before we decide to tare apart the Bill of Rights..
You can disagree... I am not debating this.. I live it..

[turbinetree]

47. Great

NO debate;
I lived it when my principle got shot and killed fifty-five years ago and my teacher got shot--
This is a debate I lived it, and I want the gun laws changed, just like the 20 children's parents' and countless others that have been murdered by and with a gun
But the first four words of the amendments preamble are not to be missing from the discussion or any laws, because the other words in the amendment are provided at every turn for justification for the means and the act.
This is the only amendment which says they (guns) are to be "well regulated" it does not state any other clause for misinterpretation to the state and the militia.
If you want a gun then it will be "well regulated".
I have a problem when the U.S. Supreme court selectively decided to circumvent those four words in the Washington D.C case and around the country.
And what is really telling is that we have dysfunctional Congress that has not provided any funding for public research on this matter---none, everyone one of them should be IMPEACHED
This demonstration by these individuals in New York should be the discussion and as far as I am concerned about the NRA, Gun Owners of America and the paranoia that are at there shows and the gun dealers.
This should be the first show of this documentary for each gun sale, that should be the first back ground check, but what the society gets on a whole is an attack on this supposed freedom, we as a society have never heard from the NRA or Gun Owners of America any semblance or documentary like this ---none---they have shown no responsibility ----none, but we as a society get to hear the why, crime, race, states rights, criminals, partial hit job on the constitution, ect....
Any if anyone thinks so show all of us.
I want these two groups and others to explain to everyone why 7,000+ people who get killed by a gun in this country should not have this amendment enforced by the first four words of the amendment in the constitution this is not infringement its called responsibility and the founding fathers equated this as a responsibility with those four words, because they knew the paranoia was out there

[freshwest]

26. The 'Guns Everywhere!' and 'Don't tread on me!' crowd now want laws and regulations enforced?

Excellent analysis by Rachel, as always.

[zebonaut]

34. Ad is long time coming...

You don't pull punches when you are fighting the filthy NRA.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. I have a 12 gauge shotgun responsible for the mass murder of ducks.

[sellitman]

40. Best thing of the day

Isn't that part of her show?

Bravo!

[MannyGoldstein]

43. Bravo! (Brava?)

Well done, by all.

[drynberg]

45. I was interested in the piece, about 2 min. into it, when audiotory interference ruined it,

Was this done to us by DU on purpose...? WHY?

[Gothmog]

46. Rachel did a great job on this story

[VScott]

49. Its so transparently staged and fake that it's laughable.

The only thing missing was Jimmy Kimmel appearing from the door behind the counter.


According to Maddows report...

"they didn't just let people randomly walk in off the street.
They recruited people who expressed an interest in buying a gun. Those people (did/didn't), want to
buy a gun were told they were taking part in a marketing experiment, and those were the people they sent into
that shop".

http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/03/23/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-gun-groups-are-freaking-ou/202995

A few observations...

1) They obviously didn't want anyone who had any background or knowledge with firearms going inside
to participate in their "marketing experiment". Anyone with even any casual experience with firearms
would have spotted them as fakes, stage props and would have blown the charade.

2) The location; opening a 'gun shop' right in the middle of hipster heaven. Of course one is going to
get the reactions that they're fishing for.

3) How may people were allowed into the store .vs how many were turned away because they didn't fit the mold
that would blend into their narrative?

4) The reactions are comical. More like 'are you for real, or are you trolling me, dude?' rather than horror or disgust.
How many people had no reaction at all, or laughed once they realized it was all a set-up?

5) Any 'horror and disgust' reactions were in part due to the dishonesty and deceit of the 'sales person'.
He never said 'this particular gun is identical, or the same type used by XXX to carry out YYY'.
He gave the false impression that it was the exact gun used by XXX to carry out YYY.
Some of those people probably believed that they were holding an actual murder weapon.

4) Maddow stated that the video had over 2 million hits (right now, after a week, it's a little under 3.5 million),
as if it's a viral success.

By YouTube numbers, that's kind of dismal, especially given the controversy and talk about it. More than half of those
numbers are easily coming from gun owners and firearms related websites/blogs.

The whole stunt was a joke and monumental fail.

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. UPDATE: It was a fake from start to finish- the 'customers' were really actors

Most of y'all got played, and played hard...

Thanks to beevul for posting this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172168674

Remember that fake gun store in NY that SUPGV opened up and took video of?

In an exclusive, the Shooter’s Log has learned that actors were used to portray customers in a fake gun shop “public service announcement” produced by States United Against Gun Violence earlier this year.

The New York City Mayor’s Office of Media has confirmed these facts in its response to a Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) request submitted in March.

“States United To Prevent Gun Violence opens a ‘gun store’ in NYC as a hidden camera social experiment to debunk safety myths,” the CeaseFire USA project claimed in its description of the video. The “social experiment,” like the “gun shop” itself, was pre-arranged, permits approved by the city indicate.

“Actors are interviewed on camera in a fake gun store,” the permits’ scene descriptions reveal.


It had previously been known that the “gun store proprietor” behind the counter was an actor—and one who has previously made a living glorifying fake “gun violence”—but up until now, speculation about if the “customers” were also plants has been just that.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/group-actors-nyc-gun-store-facade/

March FOIL Request:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266265840/NYC-FOIL-Request-Transcript-Electronically-Submitted-to-Records-Access-Officer

May FOIL Response:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266266021/NYC-Foil-Cover-Email


PSA Permit, March 10:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266266993/PSA-Permit-310

PSA Permit, March 11:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266267126/PSA-Permit-311

PSA Permit, March 12:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266267307/PSA-Permit-312

PSA Project Information:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266267519/Gun-Control-PSA-Project-Information-Redacted

Certificate of Insurance:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/266268035/Rival-School-Pictures-Guns-With-History-Clientst-Certificate-of-Insurance-Redacted

[pugetres]

51. I missed that video from back in March.

It was a wonderful PSA. Thanks for bumping this up!

[friendly_iconoclast]

52. "It was a wonderful PSA" Does the name "James O'Keefe" ring a bell?

[pablo_marmol]

54. The hypocrisy meter is in the red once again. NT

[friendly_iconoclast]

55. Seems that no one who liked the ad back in March wants to talk about it now

From descriptions like "Powerful, "moving" and "truth" in March, to...



...in June.

But that's okay-I saved all four threads (via the: 'File/Save Page As/Web Page, HTML only'
command in Firefox) that discuss it, complete with recs:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12628516

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172163317

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=12628516&info=1#recs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=168674

Just in case some try to put their remarks down the Memory Hole