Ancient Caliphates - They're Not What You Think

[DeSwiss]

The Young Turks * Published on Jul 5, 2014

"The Islamic caliphates had a long and glorious run, but in the 21st century, they seemed consigned to history. Simply put, a caliphate is an Islamic state led by a supreme religious and political leader, and it has existed in one form or another for most of the 1,400-year history of Islam.

The collapse of the Ottoman Empire a century ago marked the end of the last caliphate, an extraordinarily powerful one that had survived for more than four centuries.

But on Sunday, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria declared it was re-establishing a caliphate that will be headed by its shadowy leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi."* The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

*Read more here from Greg Myre / NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/06/30/326916530/whats-a-caliphate

- In my experience, most religious people have little knowledge or understanding of their religion, it's history, it's culture and traditions, nor the syncretism of their beliefs along side those of other religions of the geographical area in which theirs evolved. Most just believe what they were told.

And then go through life trying to reinforce and re-plaster all the cracks in the narrative.....

[Uncle Joe]

1. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, DeSwiss.

[DeSwiss]

2. De nada.

- I hope Cenk's right about this science-based, forward-looking Caliphate. On the other hand, as a species, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes, we've been repeating the same mistakes for so long that I'm not sure we can stop ourselves from repeating the same mistakes......

You know what I mean?

[Uncle Joe]

3. Bing!

[CJCRANE]

4. Fundamentalism is a modern heresy.

Christian and muslim fundies only get away with so much BS because they have a huge propaganda advantage.

[DhhD]

5. Muslim Scholars of Iraq, Reject ISIL Caliphate

http://www.wbur.org/npr/328145985/have-the-islamist-militants-overreached-in-iraq-and-syria

http://www.abna.ir/english/service/middle-east-west-asia/archive/2014/07/05/621625/story.html

[roguevalley]

6. science and engineering and a lot of the best stuff were the province of arab scholars.

they saved a lot of the greek thinking and knowledge. bless them for doing so.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

7. Don't you know our way is superior?

Just look at how we have only two political parties and they both fight for the same lobbyists.

[IrishAyes]

8. UNITY!!!!

[IrishAyes]

9. I was so blessed to grow up in the '60's turmoil

when there were so many leftist/progressive RC priests who insisted on their students and/or followers learning much of that in addition to respecting other beliefs and traditions as well. That's when I first understood Buddhism as a philosophy (as Buddhists do) instead of a religion. In Asia they were quite adept at co-officiating various religious ceremonies, and more than a few Catholic priests were also practicing Buddhists. Imagine the mutual difficulty in later settling into a remote MidWest teabagger enclave where I've even been called a daughter of satan to my face for saying such things. To say there are good Muslims in the world, some living a more moral life than certain fundie Christians, is tantamount to having flown one of those planes into the Twin Towers myself. Well, when they cross over, these people won't be able to say nobody ever told 'em.

[dougolat]

10. Isn't current Iran pretty close to a caliphate?

I recall reading that the Ottoman empire's ups and downs could be seen as swings of the secular/religious pendulum:
- religious periods didn't function as well in the long term, became stilted and set in their ways
- secular periods had more adaptability to change and tapped a broader range of talents and abilities.
Every generation had to deal with this, and in the case of Iran the society as a whole would lean toward being more secular, but the sanctions and enmity from the West, Arabs, and Israel keep the religious extremists in power, and their antagonistic actions are aimed at maintaining that position!

I believe a mature and secure caliphate can be largely secular, but that's not what's being proposed.
Pushing sectarian strife keeps the wrong people in power, and that IS what we've been doing, at least since the Iran-Iraq war.