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Thu Sep 13, 2012, 08:26 AM


Founding fathers and democracy

I wanted to take a closer look at what David Graeber said about Founding Fathers attitude toward democracy, quick search:

"Hence it is that democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths... A republic, by which I mean a government in which a scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect and promises the cure for which we are seeking." (James Madison, Federalist Papers, the McClean Edition, Federalist Paper #10, page 81, 1788)

Read more from James Madison: Federalist Paper #10: Democracies Versus Republics

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Franklin, Benjamin

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - Thomas Jefferson

“Our real disease - which is democracy.” - Alexander Hamilton

“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams

“Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy; such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit, and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable [abominable] cruelty of one or a very few.” - John Adams

OK, so the Founding Fathers saw authentic democracy as a threat against capitalist class society and the power of priviledged elite. Only reason why US - and other countries with parliamentary kleptocracy - are today called "democracies" is that people - demos - want democracy, not cleptocracy, and it's easiest to fool them by calling oligarchic kleptocracy a "democracy". And when authentic democracy raises its head, such as general assemblies of Occupy, it gets violently suffocated by the kleptocracy. Capitalistic oligarchic ownership cannot and would not survive authentic democracy.

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Reply Founding fathers and democracy (Original post)
tama Sep 2012 OP
pscot Sep 2012 #1

Response to tama (Original post)

Thu Sep 13, 2012, 01:48 PM

1. There were about 68,000 votes cast in the presidential election of 1800

Out of a population of 5.3 million, 890,000 of whom were slaves.

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