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Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:04 AM

Recall Election Fraud in Wisconsin? You Betcha!

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/07/recall-election-fraud-in-wisconsin-you-betcha/

When I heard the election had been called for Walker, I posted on my fb page, “something’s hinky here.” I felt that way then and I know it for sure now. The early exit polls predicted the race between Walker and Barrett to be a virtual tie. A second round of exit polling data gave Walker a small lead over Barrett but was still “too close to call.” MSNBC and Fox called the election for Walker an hour after the polls closed with no more than 21% of the 100% of unverified computer results in, and people in three counties still voting. Let’s see, within one hour the election went from too close to call, to Walker winning by 7%, with only 21% of the votes counted and three counties still voting. In other words that 21% was the equivalent of 57% of the total vote. This is mathematically impossible; clearly the unadjusted exit polls in Wisconsin do not match the reported results, the adjusted results, of the popular vote.

Media, unlike the common man or woman, has access to the unadjusted polling data. Richard Charnin asks, “why did the media not provide the actual unadjusted exit poll data (the “crosstabs”) Was it because they knew that they would have to adjust the poll to match a bogus recorded vote and did not want the public to view the impossible adjustments?”

Exit polls are based on what is called unadjusted exit polling data; as per Charnin, “in every election pollsters force state and national exit polls to match the recorded vote.” In other words, mathematically impossible or not, the machine is always right. In Wisconsin, the state’s leading vendors of voting machines, election supplies, and distributors of Dominion Voting Systems is Command Central. Dominion is a veritable cartel of Republican backed voting technology and owns Election Systems and Software (ES&S), Diebold/Premier Election Voting Systems, and the British based Sequoia. Diebold/Premier, famous for the mess that was the 2004 Presidential election, and ES&S are owned and operated by a handful of Republican, super-rich, Christian Reconstructionists and control 80% of the vote counts in the United States.

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Recall Election Fraud in Wisconsin? You Betcha! (Original post)
hue Jun 2012 OP
secondwind Jun 2012 #1
caseymoz Jun 2012 #2
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #3
whathehell Jun 2012 #10
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #26
whathehell Jun 2012 #27
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #28
whathehell Jun 2012 #29
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #30
whathehell Jun 2012 #31
Scootaloo Jun 2012 #32
whathehell Jun 2012 #34
bleever Jun 2012 #4
AnnieK401 Jun 2012 #5
12ZTR Jun 2012 #6
AnnieK401 Jun 2012 #8
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #17
roody Jun 2012 #9
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #16
hue Jun 2012 #7
snot Jun 2012 #11
mysuzuki2 Jun 2012 #12
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #18
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #20
EFerrari Jun 2012 #23
mysuzuki2 Jun 2012 #24
EFerrari Jun 2012 #25
Blue Owl Jun 2012 #13
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #14
NRaleighLiberal Jun 2012 #15
PolicalFodder Jun 2012 #19
Wait Wut Jun 2012 #22
1000 Words Jun 2012 #21
midnight Jun 2012 #33
hrmjustin Jun 2012 #35

Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:48 AM

1. They will get us to see "the Promised Land" one way or the other. I have utter


contempt for Evangelicals.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 03:26 AM

2. You don't understand the math.


"Walker winning by 7%, with only 21% of the votes counted and three counties still voting. In other words that 21% was the equivalent of 57% of the total vote. This is mathematically impossible; clearly the unadjusted exit polls in Wisconsin do not match the reported results, the adjusted results, of the popular vote."


No, 21% was not the equivalent of 57% of the total vote. You misunderstand what they were saying. By that time Walker had 57% of 21%. The percent of the total votes would be figured like this:

.57 x .21 = .12

Walker had 12% of the total vote. Barrett would have had 43% of 21% or

.43 x .21 = .09

Nine percent of the total vote. Therefore it was 12% to 9% of the total vote, for Walker at the time you cite. That's what was meant.

On your other proposition, even if the exit polls didn't match (there are some problems with exit polling) the results still matched every poll taken beforehand. They all said Walker either had the advantage or he was going to win. Some were within the margin of error, but I don't think there was one that said Barrett would be the clear winner.

That's not to say those voting machines aren't a real problem. Unfortunately, it's not a new problem. They have been talked about since 2002 at least, and nothing is being done about them.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 03:33 AM

3. You know what this is like?

 

It's like watching someone take a painful fall, in very slow motion. You see every expression, every twitch and wave of the arms, as the person inexorably hurtles towards the ground, where you just know they're going to smash their teeth in.

That's our nation right now. That's what I'm seeing. We're on a downward slide in all aspects. Everything from our elections to our economy to human rights and even cultural output, we are hitting a foot in the sidewalk and hurtling towards a full-on concrete faceplant.

And the damnable thing is, a part of me finds it just fascinating. I wonder if the Russians felt this way when Yeltsin attacked Moscow; Like it's horrifying, you're seeing the promise of great things go up in flames, but the realization of its magnitude makes you unable to look away or step out of the way.

The United States is set to become a third-rate nobody in the next 25 years. We'll still have plenty of guns, but that won't make us a quality nation. The only answer is immediate and radical action; even then, I think we have to just accept that our "dominance" was just a historical burp due to the twin setbacks of colonialism and war-weariness in the rest of the world.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 08:38 AM

10. I'm fascinated by your fascination

and it makes one wonder how much "skin" you have in the game, as only

those not on the train are able to gape at the train wreck.

"..even then, I think we have to just accept that our "dominance" was just a historical burp due to the twin setbacks of colonialism and war-weariness in the rest of the world.

You can "accept" that, if you'd like. For myself and others, it amounts to a shit sandwich

we can't swallow whole.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 01:06 AM

26. Really? The concept of watching big history unfold doesn't fascinate you?

 

I'm fascinated by all sorts of things; one of the historical personages who interests me the most is Genghis Khan. This doesn't mean I think he was some really nice guy who should be admired. he was a horrible, mass-murdering autocrat who destroyed two pinnacles of human civilization because his horses needed more pasture.

But he's still a very interesting figure.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I compared it to Yeltsin's coup in Russia. Do you know anything about history at all? That was not a "good thing;" however from a historical perspective it was worthy of not and observation. Same deal with the Iranian revolution or - I suspect, Hulegü's sack of Baghdad. A crazy, scary, insane time that nobody really enjoyed but that still had worldwide impact.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:31 AM

27. Yes, but you seem to be missing the point

"Do you know anything about history at all"?

Probably more than you, but as I said, you miss

the point and that might be illustrated by your answer to

my question: Are you a US citizen?




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Response to whathehell (Reply #27)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 03:35 PM

28. Well, you didn't actually ask me that

 

Yes, I am. Would you care to make some more random assumptions or accusations?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:14 PM

29. Try reading the post.

before making your own "random assumptions" and "accusations".

I asked something else.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 04:21 PM

30. No, in fact, you didn't

 

Really, it's right there, for all to see. Go look. You asked me exactly squat.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 05:14 PM

31. Yes, in fact , I did, but maybe

you need it "spelled out", although I'd guess only the

very literal-minded could fail to understand

this as an implied question:

"and it makes one wonder how much "skin" you have in the game, as only

those not on the train are able to gape at the train wreck".

So much for "squat".




.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 06:29 PM

32. That's a statement of your own assumption

 

And not a question of my nationality.

So. Do you have a point here or can I just leave you to circle the drain?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:04 PM

34. "a statment of your own assumption"?

Um, no, but never mind.

I never engage in battles of wit

with unarmed opponents.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 03:58 AM

4. "Command Central", eh?

There's more to the story than most people have any idea of.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 04:09 AM

5. OK, so what to do about it?

So if we get to the point where we know beyond a reasonable doubt that elections are being stolen, what do we do about it? Not being sarcastic, I would really like to know.

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Response to AnnieK401 (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 04:37 AM

6. Vote with your money

 

Do not spend any money in Republican business or with their supporters.
I have ostracized Republicans from my life.
It's nice to have that anger & hate out of my life.
Now that's change!

I'm sure there are those that can find excuses to not take these actions.

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Response to 12ZTR (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 06:15 AM

8. That's a great idea but around here that would mean basically not buying anything.

I live in a heavily Republican rural county in FL. I suspect that every business here is owned by a Republican. Thinking of eliminating conservatives from my FB friends list though. That would leave me with embarrassingly few FB friends, but who cares.

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Response to AnnieK401 (Reply #8)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:29 PM

17. Talk to them Election integrity is not a partisan issue

We, who already know and accept what is going on, don't need to educate one another. We need to educate other people that we need hand counted paper ballots. We need for all people regardless of party to know that the elections are valid. If we don't have a vote that counts we have nothing. Division is a tool used by those who are corrupting our vote and government to keep us from stopping them.

Get Out, Get Active or Get screwed.

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Response to AnnieK401 (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 08:35 AM

9. Demand paper ballots. n/t

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Response to AnnieK401 (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:22 PM

16. What to do now Educate, Educate, Educate

Educate your self, educate your family, friends, neighbors and anyone who will listen. Create groups where you are to go to your legislature and insist on voting that can be verified on election day. That means hand counted paper ballots. You can use opti-scan for immediate results as long as the ballots in the machine are hand counted and compared to the total.

Join elections defense groups like the election defense alliance or the league of women voters.

Some good information on electronic voting in WI and in general. Education of the population is the key.

Meet Command Central, the People in Charge of Wisconsin Voting Machines
http://wcmcoop.com/members/meet-command-central-the-people-in-charge-of-wisconsin-voting-machines/

Computer expert explains why computerized voting is easily hacked.
&feature=bf_prev&list=PL7EA9A7F25C837D23

Get out, Get Active or Get Screwed!

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 05:27 AM

7. The voting machine problem must be fixed before Nov.

That's really the main issue here. We cannot be complacent regarding this!

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 08:42 AM

11. K&R'd. And note, it wasn't always the case that “in every election

. . . pollsters force state and national exit polls to match the recorded vote.” That started after 2000, when the divergence between the exit polls and the recorded vote became too troubling to plausibly discount. After electronic voting and/or tabulation had become widespread.

I'm not sure who's in charge of the exit polling now; but until a few elections ago, it was conducted by the news media.

Copied directly from a msg to a friend on Nov. 3, 2004:

Per the New York Times, “surveys of voters leaving the polls . . . showed Mr. Kerry leading Mr. Bush by as much as 3 percentage points nationally.” Nonetheless, “[w]ith 98 percent of the national vote reported as of 8 a.m. Eastern time [Nov. 3], Mr. Bush was leading Mr. Kerry by a margin of 51 percent to 48 percent . . .”(http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/politics/campaign/04electcnd.html?hp&ex=1099544400&en=ba992171a995deaf&ei=5094&partner=homepage)).

--so those exit polls were off by as much as 6 percent. Is that an unusually large discrepancy?

Meanwhile, in this same election, the VNS Exit Poll System broke down—the main system that could have provided data to either discount or point toward any tampering. (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/05/politics/main528252.shtml) The system that was extensively overhauled after the 2000 election in order to make it more accurate.


Copied directly from the friend's reply:

The NYTimes must have deleted the line referred to in the text below that you sent yesterday. You can still access the article, but the line is gone. Did you actually go to the story and see the line?

The rug is being vacuumed at the Times I’m afraid.


DU'er's following this issue know there's a wealth of statistics starting ca. 2000 showing an unexpected "red shift" in parts of the country that happen not to provide an auditable paper trail.

Studies have also shown electronic voting to be less accurate as well as more expensive; see, e.g., http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-av-campaign-gets-dirty/5789 ; http://www.notablesoftware.com/evote.html .

After giving electronic voting a try, a court in Germany has held the practice unconstitutional (see http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/election-worries-court-to-examine-security-of-electronic-voting-a-587001.html ); and the Netherlands expressly outlawed the practice: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/05/netherlands-says-nee-to-electronic-voting/ .

There have been numerous trials conducted in which computer scientists attempt to hack a system, and I have yet to hear of one in which they failed; on the contrary, in every one, they succeed quickly and easily, sometimes even declaring that the system appears to be designed to be hacked.

Bob Fitrakis has written a lot of coverage of this issue; here's a recent article: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1204/S00087/great-powerful-advocates-of-faith-based-electronic-voting.htm

I could go on. The bottom line is, we can't KNOW that electronic voting fraud occurred; but we also can't know it didn't. And we are fools to trust blindly, where there's so much at stake.

PS: I'm not saying we shouldn't be working for our candidates, or objecting to the other kinds of election fraud such as illegal purges of the rolls. But the idea that they're willing to cheat in the most difficult, visible ways, but for some reason would refrain from cheating in the easiest, most invisible ways, even though they've put the system in place to do so, is pretty implausible.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 10:03 AM

12. a question as a Wisconsin voter.

we use a paper ballot, optically scanned and counted. Is there any checking of results? Such as randomly choosing machines and manually counting the paper ballots and checking against th scanned results?

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:34 PM

18. Yes you can count the scanned votes

The only problem is that this is not done in Wisconsin and our elected officials are the only ones that can ask for such a count. Here is an article with more information about Wisconsin voting as we now have DRE's ( no paper trail ) in some municipalities, this is against the statues of the GAB but somehow we still got them on a 2 for 1 swap in some municipalities. Wisconsinites need to educate their neighbors, we need to push for change and it needs to happen before November.

http://wcmcoop.com/members/meet-command-central-the-people-in-charge-of-wisconsin-voting-machines/

I posted another link on here to some video's that explain the many ways these machines are hacked.

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:47 PM

20. Meeting about the vote

Prior to the election the Wisconsin wave had a meeting planned for the day after the election win or lose. The subject was "No more stolen election". I am not an official with the wave3 but I am a member but in our meeting we talked about the problems with the elections and plans to move ahead and educate voters about this issue. So I would suggest that you join the wave and get involved. You can also join the election defense alliance or other election protection groups. Ask questions when something doesn't seem right. Read up on the rules on the GAB website. This is about education first because once the public is educated I believe their horror and shock will be enough to move them to action.

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 9, 2012, 12:36 AM

23. No, there is no audit after the vote that is large enough to be representative.

That is what is needed and it isn't happening.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 9, 2012, 11:20 AM

24. It seems to me that it would be a good idea for a certain number

of the scanning machines to be picked randomly and the manual count checked against the scanned count. That might go a long way in discouraging any funny business.

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Response to mysuzuki2 (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 9, 2012, 12:49 PM

25. A good audit has long been a goal of election reformers

but the usual suspects have fought it tooth and nail.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 12:13 PM

13. Why does the GOP hate transparency?

Here's your answer -- they can't win without cheating.

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:15 PM

14. whatthehell

I totally agree with what you said except I would change "we can't swallow this sandwich whole" to "we WON'T swallow this sandwich whole". I am a Wisconsinite, I have been all over the State in the past year and a half and this election did NOT reflect the will of the people. If this election is a true reflection of the will of the people then those in power should prove it to us but they can not. No matter what party affiliation a person has if you do not have a vote that counts you have nothing. Something is very, very wrong with an election when it is called so early with voters still waiting in line to vote. I might add that voters that are in line at 8pm are largely working class people. For years Democrats have been told when we lose that we didn't get out the vote. I can tell you not only did we get out the vote, we got out unregistered traditional non-voters this is why the clerk in Dane county was saying we could see 119% turnout. Wisconsin has same day registration we were registering new voters.

We in Wisconsin have not lost. The puppet Walker is still in office but his hands are tied and will soon be handcuffed. The election was touted as the election that would show if boots on the ground could beat overwhelming money. I believe that boots on the ground did beat the money. Unfortunately boots on the ground can't beat a corrupted election system. WAKE up America find out what you can do to insist that your elections are verifiable.

Some good information on electronic voting in WI and in general. Education of the population is the key.

Meet Command Central, the People in Charge of Wisconsin Voting Machines
http://wcmcoop.com/members/meet-command-central-the-people-in-charge-of-wisconsin-voting-machines/

Computer expert explains why computerized voting is easily hacked.
&feature=bf_prev&list=PL7EA9A7F25C837D23

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Response to PolicalFodder (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:16 PM

15. well stated. and Welcome to DU!

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #15)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:39 PM

19. Thanks for the Welcome

Thanks for the welcome. I did exit polling in our recall elections last summer and I have been on fire about HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS ever since. We must educate the pubic our media is bought. Even those who want to report on these things can only do it enough to give us the illusion that there is a voice on the liberal side and it is but they work inside some very tight constraints.

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Response to PolicalFodder (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 04:00 PM

22. Wisconsin should be proud!

You've given us all hope...even Arizona!

Very well said, PF and welcome to DU!

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Response to hue (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:48 PM

21. 29

 

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Response to hue (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:01 PM

33. All eyeballs on the private source code..... Before, during and after.....

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Response to hue (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2012, 07:16 PM

35. exit polls are not reliable, but I would not put fraud past them.

 

Go to paper ballots

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