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Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:17 PM

Did the US military cause Lyme disease? Were ticks developed as biological weapons?

A book released in May this year titled 'BITTEN: The Secret History of Lyme Disease and Biological Weapons' brought to light a possible link between the rise of Lyme disease and U.S. germ warfare.

snip


A bill passed in the House of Representatives by a vote last week has demanded a thorough investigation into the source of the illness.

Pentagon officials will determine whether ticks and other insects were 'weaponised' and used in experiments by the Department of Defense between 1950 and 1975.

Politicians also demanded they reveal whether any ticks or insects used in such experiments were released outside of any laboratory either by accident or on purpose.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7260123/Did-military-cause-Lyme-disease-PURPOSE.html



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Reply Did the US military cause Lyme disease? Were ticks developed as biological weapons? (Original post)
zooks Jul 18 OP
PJMcK Jul 18 #1
jberryhill Jul 18 #2
PJMcK Jul 18 #7
jberryhill Jul 18 #3
zooks Jul 18 #10
jberryhill Jul 18 #16
marble falls Jul 18 #21
NNadir Jul 18 #22
marylandblue Jul 18 #4
Igel Jul 18 #23
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 18 #5
Midnight Writer Jul 18 #6
stopdiggin Jul 18 #8
stopdiggin Jul 18 #9
jberryhill Jul 18 #14
zooks Jul 18 #11
stopdiggin Jul 18 #12
zooks Jul 18 #15
jberryhill Jul 18 #17
jberryhill Jul 18 #13
zooks Jul 18 #18
jberryhill Jul 18 #19
zooks Jul 18 #20

Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:22 PM

1. Oh, goodie

Another "benign" act by our government and military.

Eisenhower was right: Beware the military/industrial complex.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:25 PM

2. This is the second post of this one


But has been edited to take out the obvious red flag that was in it the first time:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12290251

This is "The CIA created AIDS" level nuttery.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:41 PM

7. Thanks

I hadn't seen the earlier post.

I feel a little foolish since this is obviously silly. Some Republicans really are nuts, aren't they?

Of course, just because the House passed a bill doesn't mean the Senate will pass it or that Trump will sign it. Even then, they'll find nothing.

Still, Eisenhower was right even if this is a poor example.

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Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:26 PM

3. Will people believe any inane bullshit?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:16 PM

10. IT is an indisputable fact the the US has been involved with germ/bio warfare. Whether this is

an instance of it I don't know nor would anyone unless you or others know all instances of what germs/bio-weapons have been studied. I think any germ warfare is inane but the US and other countries have pursued it. The US found it acceptable to douse Vietnam with Agent Orange. Did the inanity of that stop them them from creating and using it?

According to a a Kirkus review of the book Bitten

"in 1953, the U.S. military began a program of chemical and bioweapons research, recruiting scientists at the Rocky Mountain lab. Burgdorfer was tasked with mass-producing fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, and other blood-sucking bugs and infecting them with the microbes that cause disease in humans."

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/kris-newby/bitten-newby/

It the US created and used Agent Orange, I don't know why you so readily dismiss the possibility they worked with ticks. given what the US has done it seems reasonable to investigate.

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Response to zooks (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:50 PM

16. What do you think of chemtrails?

Serious question.

Let's take your form of argument:

It the US created and used Agent Orange, I don't know why you so readily dismiss _____________

So, let's roll.

For each fill in the blank, do you "so readily dismiss":

A - The US government developed and released AIDS

B - The US government is secretly spraying clouds of chemicals in the atmosphere

C - The US government secretly installed explosives in the World Trade Center Towers

D - The US government is concealing the existence of alien visitors

E - The US government faked the moon landing

Let's have it. Give us the list of things which, in your mind, are made possible by the fact that the US government used a toxic defoliant in Vietnam.

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Response to zooks (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 08:27 PM

21. I hate it when I have to agree with you, jb.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 08:53 PM

22. Regrettably, yes.

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Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:26 PM

4. If nature had not already invented the tick and the mosquito, then

the US military would surely develop a barely visible flying weapon that sucks out all your blood and drives you crazy.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 10:41 PM

23. Then there's the new kid on the block.

https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/blog/2018/08/08/watch-for-longhorned-tick-in-texas/

Claimed to have exsanguinated 5 cows in/around southern Virginia. But I didn't want to post to a site that might seem a bit sensationalist.

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Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:29 PM

5. Right. And polio vaccines in Africa spread AIDS.

No. You can only believe such bullshit if you have no understanding of nature itself. Or evolution.

But hey, most people don't know anything about those things. Ignorance is truly dangerous.

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Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:39 PM

6. Our military did spray altered anthrax virus in populated areas to study its dispersal patterns.

The anthrax was altered to make it harmless to humans, yet hospitals in the area (Southern California) did report a sharp increase in anthrax cases following the release.


And of course the anthrax killer of 2001 used weaponized anthrax taken from vault in Fort Detriech.


Don't underestimate the madness of our military and defense establishment, especially from the days when America was "great".

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Response to zooks (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 01:51 PM

8. most of this makes no sense

While there some conceivable plausibility in the US government "investigating" multiple types of bio-weapons (and delivery systems) during the Cold War period .. Lyme disease as a vector (NOT very potent, universal OR debilitating) would seem a really poor choice, and ticks as a delivery system (just plain inefficient, and probably a little goofy) also seem like a long shot. And let's keep in mind for our "sources" here we have one scientist (with no support) and one guy writing a book. But, screw-ups happen .. so there's no reason not to take a look. But let's not hold our breath on this one.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:01 PM

9. post #2 (jberry) ---- the fruitcakes are at it again

from the link at #2: Phillip Baker, Executive Director of the American Lyme Disease Foundation (ALDF), who says Smith has been "terribly misinformed" with "false and misleading information."

Almost completely refuted. And that was before the bill passed. You can either believe the science -- or you can go with the nuts. Oh, and the "nuts" would include your representatives these days. Who is "wasting taxpayer dollars" in this instance?

https://www.newsweek.com/pentagon-weaponized-ticks-lyme-disease-investigation-1449737?amp=1

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:46 PM

14. Yeah, and Kucinich got his nutty chemtrail bill passed too


That doesn't make chemtrails any saner a belief either.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:19 PM

11. Was Agent Orange a rational choice? What is rational about any bio weapon? nt

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Response to zooks (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:31 PM

12. it's your OP

zooks, respectfully, I am not going to debate you on this.
Posting crap science (which I consider disinformation) pisses me off. I think it's disservice to the community.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:47 PM

15. The article is about an investigation. An investigation will put this to rest

Whats the problem?

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Response to zooks (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:52 PM

17. Suuuuure it will

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2019, 03:48 PM - Edit history (1)

The Warren Commission put the JFK assassination to rest, correct?

The 9/11 Commission put the 9/11 events to rest, correct?

In what universe has a government investigation ever put anything to rest among the fervent imaginations of some people?

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Response to zooks (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:44 PM

13. You are asking if it was rational to use a defoliant on a rain forest where an enemy was located?


Yes. Stupid war. Stupid strategy. Run by stupid people.

But pretending that Agent Orange was intended as a bio-weapon is intentionally dishonest.

It was intended as a defoliant, and you know that.

Was it a good or smart thing to do? Fuck no. It was a disaster.

But the "if (some awful thing) is true, therefore anything I propose is true" school of argument? Now THAT is irrational.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 02:55 PM

18. You're splitting hairs to say there's a differnce between chemical and biological warfare

Dioxin ie Agent Orange kills people its not simply a defoliant


snip

Chemical/biological warfare is the term used to describe the use of chemical or biological agents as weapons to injure or kill humans, livestock, or plants. Chemical weapons are devices that use chemicals to inflict death or injury; biological weapons use pathogens or organisms that cause disease. Pathogens include bacteria, viruses, fungi, and toxins (poisons produced by animals or plants).


https://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/tracer-bullets/chemicalbiotb.html

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Response to zooks (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 03:03 PM

19. Have fun with your ticks


Inhaling the gunsmoke gases produced by firing gunpowder based rounds is likewise toxic. That does not make gunpowder a chemical weapon, despite the fact that it is a chemical used to conduct combat.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 18, 2019, 06:29 PM

20. That is absurd. Dioxin is a chemical just like Naplam

snip

Unlike the effects of another chemical weapon used in Vietnam namely napalm, which caused painful death by burns or asphyxiation Agent Orange exposure did not affect its victims immediately.


In the first generation, the impacts were mostly visible in high rates of various forms of cancer among both U.S. soldiers and Vietnam residents.

But then the children were born. It is estimated that, in total, tens of thousands of people have suffered serious birth defects spina bifida, cerebral palsy, physical and intellectual disabilities and missing or deformed limbs. Because the effects of the chemical are passed from one generation to the next, Agent Orange is now debilitating its third and fourth generation.


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/agent-orange-exposed-how-us-chemical-warfare-vietnam-unleashed-disaster-62317


Claiming AO is simply a defoliant and not chemical warfare is bollocks

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