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Sun Sep 16, 2018, 10:59 AM

Now Brexit is flipping?

London Mayor Pushes For 2nd Brexit Vote

[Flip Manafort, flip Brexit? Never mind Theresa May's getting a bad exit deal from the EU, we must not forget that Putin pushed for Brexit via his legions of goblins to undermine the EU (and democracy) and gain the upper hand... maybe Manafort will spill what he knows in this related area...]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b9e25a2e4b013b0977b90b9

“It’s time to take this crucial issue out of the hands of the politicians and return it to the people,” Sadiq Khan said in a Sunday Op-Ed.

Alarmed by the possibility of a bad or “no-deal” Brexit, London Mayor Sadiq Khan has called for a second referendum on the contentious subject of the U.K.’s departure from the European Union.

In a Sunday Op-Ed published in The Observer, Khan said the British public has the right to “take back control” of the issue after U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May’s “abject failure” to negotiate a good Brexit deal for the country.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 11:01 AM

1. Good luck with that - would the EU even take them back?

The time for a referendum/revote was before the leave mechanism started, I believe they had two years.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 11:31 AM

3. Would the EU Take Them Back . . .

In a heartbeat.

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Response to DarthDem (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:12 PM

10. Not necessarily...

It would require a unanimous vote by the more-than-two-dozen EU member nations. Don’t you think there’s at least one country that would block them just because (they were in a feud with the U.K. some time back, or kicking them out would give a boost to one of their industries, or whatever)?

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Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #10)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 02:36 PM

12. It's more likely that Brexit will generate a trillion pounds for the British economy.

Geography, history, and the peace process mean that Ireland simply must have the UK in the EU. This is huge in itself because this is a borderline existential requirement for Ireland, and the EU has shown no sign of abandoning it. The industrial powers like Germany and France need the UK in as a trade partner. The poor Mediterranean countries like Spain, Greece, and Italy need the UK in to patch up their economies with British tourists and retirees. Then there are the countries like Belgium and Holland which are huge believers in the EU project. Poland and Romania can't vote against it either because half their populations want to work in the UK, and the other half are already working there. Put all that together and you have a pretty good list for why they all know that no industry anywhere will benefit from allowing Brexit to stand. One country committing economic suicide over Brexit was insane enough, but the idea of a second one being stupid enough to follow suit is simply inconceivable.

And considering the number of European leaders who have made it very clear that they can't trust the US any longer after the last couple of years, the concept of "European defence" is starting to really mean something outside NATO. The vehicle best suited to take over that role is the European Union, in terms of both procurement and operations. Rest assured that they know who patrols Irish approaches, and a closer relationship with the RAF is a big priority from a continental defence standpoint.

Also, it's an ecological disaster to keep the UK out. British fishermen wanting to over-fish the North Sea were a big part of committing Brexit in the first place. We're already having "Scallop Wars" in the channel because agreements aren't being made and honored. Nobody in Europe wants that.

And that assumes the Article 50 process is even allowed to conclude, which is far from certain at this point. The UK can't be re-admitted if it never leaves in the first place. It's true that an eventual re-admission would almost certainly be done without the concessions to British pride which the first one contained--I'd not bet on the Pound surviving, for example--but there's virtually no possibility of a country being stupid and petty enough to veto British re-admission.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 12:08 PM

5. Ask Leo Varadkar. His vote is a little more equal than others.

The conventional wisdom is that Brexit is bad for the EU, awful for Ireland, and catastrophic for the UK. It's true that lots of Brits have behaved quite horribly on the subject, and that does generate a desire to stick it to the country which wanted in with special conditions, now wants out with special conditions, spends most of its time and effort negotiating with itself except when it tries to strike bilateral deals with individual EU states, etc. But the bottom line is that an exit from Brexit is good for the EU in general and spectacularly good for both the peace and prosperity of Ireland, so the EU would almost certainly let the whole thing go as temporary insanity because they'll act like adults and put the best interests of member states ahead of revenge. Never mind the undesirability of creating an economic basket case in your midst.

Put that all together, and it really doesn't matter that there are technical and legal arguments both ways on revoking Article 50. The 800 pound gorilla in the conversation is that if the political will is there to reverse it, it dies.

Full disclosure. I'm a citizen of both the UK and Ireland, as well as the US.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 12:13 PM

7. Of course they would. The EU knows it is stronger with the UK than without.

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Response to Merlot (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 12:17 PM

8. If Brexit is stopped, the UK remains in the EU

It's not a question of taking them back. They won't have left.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #8)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 12:28 PM

9. Exactly. And it's in the interest of the US that they stay in too. Most

people here in Ireland want the British to stay in, if for nothing else, self interest.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 17, 2018, 05:18 AM

15. The question is really can it be stopped

They are halfway through the procedures detailed in article 50 of the Lisbon treaty and it does not provide any procedure to stop halfway. It does allow a process for rejoining (article 49) though.

My guess is that it would be allowed to stop halfway through and everyone will act like the process was never started. But that could be challenged by another member.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 11:56 AM

4. Of course the chaos of Brexit was originated by putin and fomented by RW agits

Anything to disrupt the EU or NATO to allow the Soviets to take control.

Like a cancer bombarded by chemo/radiation, the disease of world domination does not go away easily.

FSB/GRU/KGB/Stasi/SS are still there - always will be. But awareness and education are the best counters.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 01:29 PM

11. I wish they would nullify and void it due to Russian

interference. Maybe if England did it, then it wouldn't seem so bizarre if we wanted to do it once the Dems are in charge again.
Jimmy Carter thinks this would be a good idea and I agree.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11138169

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #11)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 03:01 PM

13. Yup, that's what I was thinking

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Sep 16, 2018, 10:59 PM

14. Yes yes yes. Mayor Khan is right.

The U.S. has gone over the cliff but it’s not too late for the U.K. A revote is essential now that the reality of Brexit has been laid bare.

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Response to Maven (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 17, 2018, 10:22 AM

16. Our re-vote was supposed to be the electoral college

But never underestimate the machiavellian influence of monsters like Carl Rove and Manafort who have gummed up the soul of this country. It was all about "winning" the election, even with a prime monster like Trump at the helm. They have pushed all the right nerves – hubs of influence – to bypass any shred of Republican restraint.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Mon Sep 17, 2018, 11:20 AM

17. Long overdue

Hopefully it's not too late to back out of this nightmare

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