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Tue Jun 12, 2018, 08:06 AM

Bernie Sanders was right, and Democrats are running on his message. But will the party listen?



(snip)

Beyond health care, Booker has rolled out a plan to implement a jobs guarantee, Gillibrand and Booker want to legalize marijuana and they, along with Harris, have sworn off corporate PAC money. That first one is more than even Sanders dared to call for back in 2016; the latter two are straight out of his playbook. Even Sanders’ push for labor law reform, a dream of activists that didn’t happen under the Obama administration (despite Democrats having 60 votes in the Senate), has garnered its fair share of backers.

Plenty of skeptics — particularly conservative ones — welcome a race amongst the 2020 hopefuls to out-Bernie each other as a signal that Democrats are intent on driving themselves into inevitable electoral doom. But, though it’s hard to square with a country that sent Donald Trump to the White House and a big Republican majority to Congress, these policy moves make good political sense.

Majorities are now in favor of pot legalization, for instance, while a plurality favors a nationalized health care system. On many economic matters, there is hard evidence that the conservative governance America is getting is not what most voters actually want.

And, perhaps more to the point, the Obama years proved that Republicans are going to portray Democrats as wild-eyed socialists no matter how incremental and market-friendly the reforms they propose are. So they might as well go big; the response from the opposition will be the same either way.

(snip)

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-was-right-democrats-are-running-his-message-will-ncna882091


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Reply Bernie Sanders was right, and Democrats are running on his message. But will the party listen? (Original post)
Uncle Joe Jun 12 OP
Squinch Jun 12 #1
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #2
SharonClark Jun 12 #3
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #4
KPN Jun 12 #5
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #7
Gothmog Jun 12 #6
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #8
Gothmog Jun 12 #9
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #10
Gothmog Jun 12 #11
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #12
Gothmog Jun 12 #13
Uncle Joe Jun 12 #15
Gothmog Jun 12 #17
emulatorloo Jun 13 #36
Uncle Joe Jun 13 #37
Fiendish Thingy Jun 13 #26
Gothmog Jun 13 #27
Gothmog Jun 12 #14
bahrbearian Jun 12 #16
Gothmog Jun 13 #18
Uncle Joe Jun 13 #20
bahrbearian Jun 13 #23
Gothmog Jun 13 #28
bahrbearian Jun 13 #29
Gothmog Jun 13 #30
bahrbearian Jun 13 #31
Gothmog Jun 13 #34
bahrbearian Jun 13 #35
Gothmog Jun 13 #19
Uncle Joe Jun 13 #21
Gothmog Jun 13 #22
Uncle Joe Jun 13 #24
Gothmog Jun 13 #25
kamalafan Jun 13 #32
Gothmog Jun 13 #33

Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 08:17 AM

1. Bait to divide Democrats. Trashing.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 08:30 AM

2. Why do you believe that?

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 08:45 AM

3. Agree. The opinion piece was written by a right-winger.

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Response to SharonClark (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 08:50 AM

4. What part of the article do you disagree with?

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:13 AM

5. Good article, especially the links. Thanks for posting.

Lifelong registered and voting Dem here. These differences are important ones regardless of the source of a particular article. The party will get votes if it merits votes -- it's that simple.

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Response to KPN (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:21 AM

7. I agree KPN and thank you.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:20 AM

6. Economist--Berned out

This article makes me smile https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/09/berned-out

None of Mr Sanders’s other big ideas—including free college and massive public works—is getting much play. Nor have Sanders-endorsed candidates fared well in the primaries. Our Revolution, a group Mr Sanders formed to promote his acolytes, has been a failure. “It doesn’t do anything,” gripes a strategist for one of its candidates.

Rumpled, crumpled, Trumpled

The energy on the left is focused on opposing Mr Trump’s attack on liberal democracy, not on carrying forward Mr Sanders’s revolution. The success of moderate candidates in the Democratic primaries suggests this is making the party more pragmatic and mindful of party unity than Mr Sanders, an ideologue who is not a Democratic Party member, might like.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 11:31 AM

8. Whatever floats your boat Gothmog but

I believe the author of that article is out of touch and writes or talks in the same language as Trump.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #8)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 12:02 PM

9. You do realize that all of sanders proposals rely on magic to be adopted

All of sanders proposals require a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions or may gillions of new voters show up and force the GOP to be reasonable and not block standers silly proposals. Magic does not work in the real world. Sanders proposals are not popular with voters who actually vote in the real world which is why the magical voter revolution failed. https://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote

Among people who typically vote, these policies aren't that popular. The "political revolution" is only plausible if it's about changing the composition of the electorate: bringing new people to the polls who don't normally vote, even in presidential elections.

In the real world the conditions are simply not right for a voter revolution https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/04/heres-why-i-never-warmed-bernie-sanders/

But as Bill Scher points out, the revolution that Bernie called for didn’t show up. In fact, it’s worse than that: we were never going to get a revolution, and Bernie knew it all along. Think about it: has there ever been an economic revolution in the United States? Stretching things a bit, I can think of two:

The destruction of the Southern slave economy following the Civil War
The New Deal

The first of these was 50+ years in the making and, in the end, required a bloody, four-year war to bring to a conclusion. The second happened only after an utter collapse of the economy, with banks closing, businesses failing, wages plummeting, and unemployment at 25 percent. That’s what it takes to bring about a revolution, or even something close to it.

We’re light years away from that right now. Unemployment? Yes, 2 or 3 percent of the working-age population has dropped out of the labor force, but the headline unemployment rate is 5 percent. Wages? They’ve been stagnant since the turn of the century, but the average family still makes close to $70,000, more than nearly any other country in the world. Health care? Our system is a mess, but 90 percent of the country has insurance coverage. Dissatisfaction with the system? According to Gallup, even among those with incomes under $30,000, only 27 percent are dissatisfied with their personal lives.

Like it or not, you don’t build a revolution on top of an economy like this. Period. If you want to get anything done, you’re going to have to do it the old-fashioned way: through the slow boring of hard wood.

Without some external event as described above, there will be no voter revolution. Millions or billions or trillions of new voters are not going to rise up and help sanders pass these unrealistic proposals in the real world.

In my opinion, Sanders is not likely to run in 2020 and if Sanders does run, he will not be the nominee. Sanders will have to release his tax returns to get onto the ballot in a number of blue states due to proposed and pending ballot access laws. Sanders would also face backlash due to stunts like the attack on Congressman John Lewis at the National Convention (the video of this stunt and the fact that Sanders refused to stop this stunt will not play well with the base of the party). The Our Revolution idiots and Nina Turner are generating a great deal of anger on the part of real Democrats towards Sanders and his proposals. There are a large number of Democrats who blame sanders for Trump's victory. You can count me in that group who blame sanders for trump's victory. In addition, a large majority of Democrats live in the real world and will not accept sanders unrealistic proposals. I seriously doubt that sanders runs and I am sure that he will not get the nomination. Again, there will be no magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions of new voters rise up to support Sanders. Without a magical revolution in the real world, this proposal is not going to go anywhere

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 12:53 PM

10. Both of your articles are from 2016

and somewhat dated.

Having said that, the Vox article doesn't mention "magic" and for that matter is not in opposition to the premise of the OP article.



(snip)

You can debate why the poorest voters aren't supporting Sanders wholeheartedly. But the fact of the matter is that they aren't. And winning over poor people who do vote seems like an important prerequisite to winning over poor people who don't.

The bottom line is that Bernie Sanders and his campaign have identified an intriguing electoral strategy, but it's becoming pretty clear they're not going to be the ones who prove whether or not it works.

This should be good news for Sanders's supporters: Just because it looks very unlikely that this particular candidate will win the nomination this particular time, that doesn't mean that a different candidate won't be able to succeed with a similar platform and strategy.

And if the Sanders supporters committed to the political revolution devote their energy after this election to figuring out how to reach the "poor people (who) don't vote," that could be a game changer.


https://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11497822/sanders-political-revolution-vote



As for the second article, the author's view of major political revolutions in regards to time and space is too static or limited, without taking into account the increased speed of information's effect on political change.

As the speed of transferable information increased between the two primary events; Civil War and New Deal listed by the OP in the Mother Jones article, time was decreased before cause and effect occurred.

The ascendancy of the Millennial Generation arising in the same moments as the birth of the Information Age will go even further to accelerate the awareness and subsequent change process.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #10)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 12:58 PM

11. Sanders campaign is premised on this revolution which did not occur

Sanders campaigned solely on the concept that his proposals would be magically adopted due to a magical voter revolution. Without that magical voter revolution, even Sanders admitted that his platform could not be adopted https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/articles/2016-04-15/bernie-sanders-bad-delegate-math-and-fantasy-revolution

Thus more broadly, his attempt to delegitimize a swath of voters lays bare a fundamental inconsistency of the Sanders campaign: One of his basic answers about how he's going to accomplish his aims – whether winning the Democratic nod, winning the general election or enacting his agenda – is the forthcoming revolution. His super-ambitious agenda will prove to be achievable substance rather than unicorns-and-rainbows fantasy, he said Thursday night, "when millions of people stand up, fight back and create a government that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent. That is what the political revolution is about. That is what this campaign is about."

Magical thinking does not work in the real world. Sanders has failed to adopt any meaningful legislation in the real world including in his own state but sanders is willing to heckle the Democratic Party and claim that his magical proposals are realistic.

I am not the only one to note that Sanders would not be able to get his proposals adopted in the real world. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what Without a magical voter revolution, the premise of the OP is correct.

Can you enlighten us as to how many new voters are necessary for sanders magical voter revolution to work? Will the magical voter revolution take millions or billions or trillions of new voters?

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #11)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 01:08 PM

12. Again both of your articles are from 2016, neither take into account

2017-2018 dynamics as stated by the current dated article in the OP.

"Billion or trillions of new voters" come on Gothmog, surely you can do better than that.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #12)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 01:52 PM

13. Sanders and Our Revolution has been failing on an epic basis

Sanders has not accomplished any major legislative accomplishments in the real world because magic does not work in the real world. Sanders' endorsement have been largely meaningless and no one is paying attention to either Our Revolution or Sanders.

Here are some more facts for you to ignore https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/09/berned-out

The first is that he almost won the Democratic nomination: had he not been stiffed by the party establishment, which assisted Mrs Clinton, Sandernistas say, he would have done. President Donald Trump says the same. It is nonsense. Mr Sanders won 4m fewer votes than Mrs Clinton and none of the most populous states. He won quirky, liberal hotbeds like New Hampshire, or through the caucus system that mimics them. He was considered competitive chiefly as a result of bored journalists’ efforts to inject drama into the yawnathon of Mrs Clinton’s slow-walk to the nomination.

The most fervent Sandernistas tended not to be Democrats at all. They were college kids and independents, many of whom subsequently drifted off to a third-party nominee. A middle-aged Sandernista in the crowd in Los Angeles, Jacinta, said she voted for the Green candidate in 2016, considered Democrats and Republicans as birds of a feather, and was frustrated that neither backs free movement across the southern border. Most Sanders voters, by contrast, were loyal Democrats who simply didn’t much like Mrs Clinton. Having little attachment to Mr Sanders’s statist ideas, they nonetheless swung grumblingly behind her. This helps explode the second myth: that the Democrats have veered to the left, where the rumpled Mr Sanders awaits them.

Do you really think that Sanders will file in 2016 tax returns?

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #13)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 02:11 PM

15. The difference between your Economist article and the OP

is as night and day.

The OP article cites numerous links to other polls or articles to make its' reason based contention.

Your economist reads like an embittered opinion piece that speaks in the same demagogue style language as Trump.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #15)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 05:07 PM

17. And yet sanders still has no accomplishments and his endorsed candidates are losing

The voters are reject Sanders and Our Revolution endorsed candidates. How is sanders winning in the real world?

The real world is a nice place. Magic does not work in the real world but hard work does.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 06:06 PM

36. Bernie peaked in 2016. The "2017-2018 dynamics" are failed endorsements from Our Revolution

and almost daily gaffes from Bernie. I supported him in 2016 for President. His statements and behavior since the election and the hotheads he surrounds him with leads me to believe he lacks the temperament and judgement to be President. I doubt I am the only former supporter out there.

He is a great Senator for Vermont.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 08:30 PM

37. Bernie is doing just fine as is the movement.

I believe Bernie to be among if not the most grounded political leaders in D.C. today.


Bernie is wise, his judgement strong and he's a proven leader of the first order.


Whether Bernie runs for President again or not I will support him.


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Response to Gothmog (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 10:49 AM

26. If most of the Social Democracies of the world can find this "magic"

Why can't the US?

Sanders' proposals are standard policies throughout Scandanaiva and much of the EU and beyond.

Why do you scoff at policies that would make life better for all Americans?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 12:11 PM

27. In the real world, you have to deal with republicans control of congress and filibusters

Sanders has zero meaningful legislative accomplishments in the real world because all of his proposals require magic to be adopted. Sanders campaigned on a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions or perhaps even more new voters would show up and force the GOP to be reasonable. That never happened in the real world. Sanders tried and failed to get single payer adopted in vermont.

I like living in the real world and I do not believe in magic

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 01:57 PM

14. Senator Harris just endorsed a candidate attacked by Our Revolution

This makes me smile https://secure.actblue.com/donate/kamalaendorsement

Senator Kamala Harris is a beacon of leadership for all of us who care about the rule of law and who care about having elected representatives who are compassionate, reasonable, and decent towards their fellow citizens.

She is one of the people who inspired me to run for office, and I am proud to accept her endorsement. I will continue to lead the charge in standing up against the tide of hostility and anger and always listen to the concerns of those in our district. Show your support and donate right now to help our campaign lead this change.

This endorsement is meaningful as compared to Our Revolution. Sri was the candidate attacked by Our Revolution because he is Asian and had a funny first name. Sanders endorsements are not carrying any weight in the real world but candidates are happy to be endorsed by Senator Harris

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #14)

Tue Jun 12, 2018, 03:28 PM

16. "rule of law"

That's funny , whose the Treasury Secretary and why isn't he in Prison.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 09:28 AM

18. Kamala Harris romps across California ballot

OUr Revolution and Sanders has a horrible record on endorsement. Senator Harris has a great record (especially when compared to sanders and Our Revolution https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/08/kamala-harris-ballots-california-634119

Of 27 candidates Harris endorsed in Tuesday primary, 20 finished first or were leading in returns as of Friday, while another four finished second and will advance to the November general election.

Just three Democrats backed by Harris lost or were heading to likely defeats, with elections officials still counting provisional and mail-in ballots.

Her heavy hand in California’s primary — involving Democrats at all levels here — reflects the freshman senator’s concerted emphasis on home-state maintenance, even as she travels throughout the country raising money for Democrats in higher-profile contests and expands her still-budding political network ahead of a potential presidential campaign.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 09:34 AM

20. Good for Kamala

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 10:04 AM

23. Steven Mnuchin romps across the U.S. economy.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 12:13 PM

28. But compared to Our Revolution and sanders, an endorsement by Harris means something

Sanders and Our Revolutions are really failures at endorsing candidates who can win. Senator Harris has a far better track record.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 12:55 PM

29. So shes not going to take Mnuchins money anymore because ?

Bernie was right about campaign contributions. She should return Steve's money and apologize for allowing him to profit from foreclosures and not face prison time , you think Russian is going to let her off the hook for that one. the trolls will be all over that during her campaign.

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 01:02 PM

30. Senator Harris really scares Our Revolution and Sanders supporters

This amuses me

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #30)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 02:08 PM

31. I'm glad she has finally seen the light. too bad for the 120,000 foreclosed Californians that

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #31)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 05:05 PM

34. I am really amused at how Senator Harris scares Sanders supporters

The attacks on Senator Harris by sanders supporters amuse me

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 05:35 PM

35. I'm glad Harris is adopting Bernie's Policies, it's given her a boost in the pols since she has.

It's a little late for 120,000 home owners that got evicted for Mnuchins gain.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 09:29 AM

19. Did any Our Revolution candidates win last night?

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 09:40 AM

21. I don't know but here is a list of their endorsed candidates and ballot measures with

the results as of June 5th


https://ourrevolution.com/results/

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 09:55 AM

22. Our Revolution is falling apart

I saw that Nixon in New York is down big time

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 10:04 AM

24. Gothmog, remind me not to get in a fox hole with you.




The future and staying power of Our Revolution is for the long term and not dependent on any one race; even in New York, this is a marathon not a sprint.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #24)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 10:26 AM

25. I am working in the real world to turn Texas blue

I do not believe in magic or sanders. Our revolution is a racist organization in my county that attacked an Asian candidate because he is "not one of us" and our Revolution did not want "one of them" on the ballot.

Texas will turn blue but Our Revolution will play no role in this. Our Revolution will nor survive so long as Nina Turner is involved.

Sanders will have to release tax reurns to run in 2020. I doubt that sanders will run and Our Revolution will survive this

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 03:28 PM

32. This isn't true

 

At all.

It has nothing to do with what you describe and saying how "he isn't one of us" and where you got that from I have no idea but it is false. Please read the article because this is what it's about;

https://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Sri-Preston-Kulkarni-congress-cocaine-fort-bend-12628329.php

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Response to kamalafan (Reply #32)

Wed Jun 13, 2018, 04:44 PM

33. I was at the meeting when the head of Our Revolution said this

I was there as were a number of other real Texas democrats. Juanita Jean's husband was also at this meeting

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