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yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 01:56 AM Apr 2017

Orientalism and the Ghost in Hollywoods Shell



by Hermit_Hwarang
The term “ghost in the machine” was coined in 1949 by British philosopher Gilbert Ryle as a critique of Cartesian dualism. Ryle rejected the notion that the body was little more than a ‘machine” operated by the independent “ghost” of the human mind, arguing instead that the two were fundamentally interconnected. Over the ensuing decades, the phrase gained popularity within philosophy, notably with the publication of Arthur Koestler’s 1967 book of the same name, and eventually seeped into popular culture and language.

Ryle’s phrase inspired the title of Shirow Masamune’s Ghost in the Shell, a science fiction manga and anime that imagines a future Japan in which human “ghosts” could be transplanted into biological robot “shells.” Ghost in the Shell questions what happens to the category of human when the physical distinctions between people and machines disappear. It was lauded internationally in literary and artistic circles as a powerful existentialist meditation on transhumanism, and has served as the inspiration for other films of a similar premises and philosophic bent, most notably the Wachowski brothers’ Matrix trilogy.

While Shirow’s classic has become one of the most beloved and respected mangas of all time, it would appear that Rupert Sanders’ Paramount Pictures-backed live-action adaptation fails to measure up. When it was released this past weekend, Sanders’ Ghost in the Shell failed to earn back even half of its $110 million budget, performing so dismally that it inspired Vanity Fair to question whether this was the “nail in the coffin” of Hollywood’s long tradition of whitewashing.

It’s certainly true that Ghost in the Shell is not the only recent film to have its box office performance undercut by whitewashing controversy (Exodus: Gods and Kings, Pan, Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, The Last Airbender, Aloha). However, the thesis of whitewashing as box office bomb doesn’t hold up when you look at all instances. Despite tremendous controversy, Great Wall, starring Matt Damon, ended up grossing $330 million (only about $50 million was domestically, but still). Marvel’s Doctor Strange raked in $677 million in total, along with a 90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Kubo and the Two Strings scored two Oscar nominations while earning back its budget with a $15 million profit. Even the much-maligned and critically panned Gods of Egypt didn’t perform too badly at the box office, ultimately bringing in $150 million on a $140 million budget.

Though it may be tempting to declare Ghost in the Shell the swan song of whitewashing in Hollywood, the evidence would suggest such a proclamation is likely premature. While it’s certainly true that no great movie has ever been created because of whitewashing, the success of a few recent titles is likely to buoy the practice’s viability in the boardroom for some time to come. After all, we all still have to watch Death Note, obviously.

more...

https://juhyundred.com/2017/04/04/orientalism-and-the-ghost-in-hollywoods-shell/

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NunnesBuznat

(47 posts)
1. It's amazing because it wasn't whitewashing at all
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 02:30 AM
Apr 2017

I find it offensive that people think a character having a Japanese name means they're ethnically Japanese. Comparing GitS to those historical fiction whitewashing cases is really grasping at straws.
Mamoru Oshii has even explained it for people who can't think for themselves

What issue could there possibly be with casting her?" Oshii told IGN by e-mail. "The Major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one. The name 'Motoko Kusanagi' and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. Even if her original body (presuming such a thing existed) were a Japanese one, that would still apply."


Honestly, as a fan for the last 20 years, it was very disappointing to see an outrage based in cognitive dissonance and ignorance ruin an iteration of the series. All that people have accomplished is creating a hostile environment for any sort of cultural exchange between western and eastern medias.

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
2. As far As I am concerned and you are getting an Asian-American's opinion
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 03:57 AM
Apr 2017

it is white washing. You said,

"I find it offensive that people think a character having a Japanese name means they're ethnically Japanese."

Let me tell you a little story that's true. I have been on IMVU.com for nearly 10 years now. Ten years ago when I went there the majority of the chat rooms were all about ANIME.



The thing that was crazy is that on that website, like most, you can chose your name so many white people chose to own their own Japanese name and pretend to be Japanese. (Two tried to pass themselves off as members of the Band TheGazettE, just so they could think of themselves as cool. I knew they were not, because their English was too good and their Japanese nearly non existant!)

So for me to come on to a website where there are so many white people with Japanese names, (some taken from Manga, and Anime, and others thrown together) it was almost like some kind of Asian envy thing...People wanting to be Japanese, yet knew nothing about the culture, the life, and the customs, not to mention the language! (Using a translator doesn't make one Japanese!)

To find out who is ethnically Japanese was a major problem, especially for someone who is like me who REALLY HAS A FAMILY HISTORY that came from Japan, because every where I went, people were like

..." pffft, yeah, so your really Japanese? Pffft. Right! So you speak a little Japanese, so can I ...Toyota, Sony, Judo, Karate...see I can speak Japanese too!"

There is such a thing as Asian pride, and for most of us Asian-Americans, to find so many (Thousands) of white people trying to be Japanese, was beyond ridicules! Many of them trying to spout facts that were not true, so they could impress the women, they were some kinda hip-cool Japanese guy!! Many lying about where they came from, saying they were from Tokyo and or living in Japan, when they couldn't even understand the language! I used to catch many of them by asking:

Ne, Nihongo de doko ni sunde imasu ka?


Its a simple question, meaning where in Japan do you live? The majority of them couldn't answer or they would say they grew up in Tokyo where the majority of Foreigners lived and never learned to speak Japanese, or ...they would just say "Hai" and thought that would be a sufficient answer to my query.


Then all these so called Anime experts, who thought Manga stories were based on fact, and that was how things really were in Japan-- was beyond stupid. Many telling me they wanted to move to Japan so they could take lessons on how to be a Ninja, was enough to make you want to face palm. I went to a University and studied Asian Studies. I knew about the customs and the culture from Japan by taking classes, not by watching Anime.

Nor did I learn Japanese from watching anime and took formal classes so I could speak a second language.

The thing is when REAL JAPANESE (from Japan) finally logged onto IMVU, they were so shocked to find so many FAKE JAPANESE (Nise mono no nihonjin 偽の日本語 ) that many of them fled, or sought shelter in their own Japanese language chat rooms only and never ventured out. They thought Americans were crazy... Never in a million years, would they change their name to something like John Smith and try to pass themselves off as Living in New York city.



IMVU had few real Asians at the time, and I would run into some of my Chinese friends who would come to me and ask,

"what the hell is it with these people trying to be Japanese? " I really couldn't answer them. Why were people trying to be something they were not???

It came to a point where if anyone really spoke Japanese, they would freak out and start booting people out of chat rooms. Or there were the Anime Purists, who loved Anime but hated the Japanese for making it. They believe it should have been America making these great cartoons, not some odd looking people from Asia.... who didn't even speak English for GOD SAKE!!

SO yeah maybe you can answer the question why it is that some white people feel the need to pass themselves off in virtual world, using an Avatar as a Japanese person from Japan?

When I hear people quoting movie directors from Japan, about how its okay to take a Japanese anime and white wash it into a major motion picture, the one fact that I know is that People who live in Japan, are not really aware of the Racist, prejudice American who will praise Anime but hate the people who made it, or will put down Asian Americans in their own back yards because they are not White and think its okay to take a culture and try and make it in their own American image with no credit to the people who came up with that culture.

People in this country can hardly name five Asian actors or actresses nor give a damn about that anyway. I remember watching Youtube episodes of Giligan's Island and being shocked to find an episode where a German-American guy played a Japanese character! They also used every stereotype in the script.


Hollywood thought this was acceptable, and yet did they bother trying to find a real Japanese-American actor to play this part? Obviously the answer was no.

I am not sure really which is worse in this country, finding another Asian American to play a Japanese character because "Y'all look a like to me" ...or getting a white person in make up to look like an Asian character, when there are plenty of Asians trying to get into acting. Or if there is a real Asian, they have a part playing a guy who owns a Dry Cleaning establishment.

How many Asian actors have starring roles in Hollywood? Not many. We really have Gene Roddenberry to thank for putting an Asian in an important role, for the first time on Television.

Things are slowly changing now, and more Asians are getting better parts than they did, than say 50 years ago. Thank goodness for FRESH OFF THE BOAT
for now there is actually a Cantonese family who came to America story based off the life of Eddie Huang and even that still deals with stereo types that still linger today.



I really don't understand how Hollywood and much of America can still think that Whitewashing is acceptable, yet there it is, raising its ugly head.

In Japan much of the entertainment there, 90% of it coming from Manga books published in Japan. Some actually make it to the full Motion picture stage, like Full Metal Alchemist.



Many Anime and Manga have been in my past with many stories I cherish. They are stories that come from Japan. They deserve to be told the way the author intended for them to be, even if that story is in the future. Hollywood of course is only interested in making money, and that will drive people to do nearly anything to get a top box office film put into the theaters.

This happened to the Korean Movie, "My Sassy Girl" which was a huge success in Asia. Hollywood figured they could make it better, and much of the cultural translation was lost from the new film, because Americans don't understand it, or want to.


The American version:


Worst decision ever made. The original movie was far superior to the American version. Why? Because of the cultural undertones from South Korea. Those were sadly missing in an American film, because the culture and even the attitudes are very different.





 

NunnesBuznat

(47 posts)
3. Your obsession with racial purity is concerning. Who are you to be the arbiter of an entire culture?
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 04:11 AM
Apr 2017

You are one person. Don't decide who can and can't enjoy your culture. You don't own your culture. That's isolationism. That's conservationism. That's an antithesis the concept of a melting pot. That's just scary. It seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about something that doesn't have anything to do with GitS. But from what I can tell, you don't think that cultures should mix. And you should probably find a far right Japanese party like Jisedai no Tō's forum to discuss your particular brand of nationalism.

Anyways, I'm sure you have valid points to make, and some of those points may true about Hollywood being white-centric, and whitewashing in general, but such is not the case here. The excerpt I posted lampshades everything you could possibly take offense to regarding GitS unless you're offended by the idea of sharing culture and media between nations of different racial makeups, and believe that you should take creative control over content producers to stop them from collaborating with foreigners regarding their content.

Again, scary.

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
4. No one said anything about Racial Purity.
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 04:15 AM
Apr 2017

SO as a white person you feel its your privilege to steal anyone's culture and use it the way you like?


You find this acceptable? wow. By the way, I am MIXED. I am Japanese and Hawaiian Native. So Racial Purity isn't even what I am about. I am talking about disrespecting a people's culture.

Igel

(35,293 posts)
7. Disrespect is intentional.
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 05:17 PM
Apr 2017

Accidental disrespect is not something to take serious offense at. But that requires a lot of leeway

Many find these assertions repulsive. It denies them power. It denies them grounds for umbrage. It makes it difficult to condemn and even when possible it's often still subject to doubt.

I recently tries to track down the origin of a musical theme. It was from a reasonably obscure Italian opera, based on an English play about an Italian topic--all from a time when "Italy" was a geographic, not a political or ethnic term. The only performance I could find was Japanese. I don't find this cultural appropriation offensive. Nor was it "Italian" envy.


The same sort of conflict occurs when, for example, a white person plays Othello, a black person plays most other Shakespeare characters, or even when a black girl plays Little Orphan Annie. The first is whitewashing, but the last two show acceptance. The common thread is one side controls and dictates what the other believes to endure the greatest benefit possible.

I see this from time to time, vicarious outrage at lost power. The assumption that a Euro-American can't teach Chinese literature, disgust that a white is the teacher for a college Swahili class. But offensive at the idea that the new Russian lit prof wasn't black or Asian. Makes no sense, this implicit bias.

hatrack

(59,583 posts)
5. Interesting! From my interactions with serious fans, I knew that Animeland could get weird . . .
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:08 AM
Apr 2017

But really, fake Japanese names? Wow. "Training to become a ninja" - seriously? I mean, seriously?

Disclaimer: I don't really know much of anything about anime, with the exception of Miyazaki, who was a freaking genius - love his stuff.

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
8. In thinking back there were many people on IMVU
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 06:23 PM
Apr 2017

of all ages and you can't really tell what age they are, but the person who wanted to be a ninja could have been 14 years old, because I can't believe that would be an adult wish. But yeah, there were thousands of people with Japanese names.

What is difficult is connecting with other Asian Americans to hang with them, and see how life is in their world. We are ganged up on, here in America, because Asians are a tiny minority that is growing and growing.

I live in a city full of Asians and yet, I don't know that many and it would seem easy to connect with some on IMVU. Its where I met JuJu who lives in San Diego. That for me, was an incredible find, because we have been thinking about trying to form a group on IMVU of other Asian-Americans as a club or group.

I learn a lot, myself from my Viet and Chinese friends and occasionally from real Japanese-Americans. The hard part is sorting out the real from the fake... why someone wants to "play" at being Asian.. strikes me as strange.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
6. k+r
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 11:45 AM
Apr 2017

Thanks for your insights... This is territory I'm not really familiar with, but I always learn something new from your threads!

yuiyoshida

(41,829 posts)
9. I really appreciate that and
Wed Apr 26, 2017, 06:26 PM
Apr 2017

You should stop by our Asian group once in a while for the stuff we post. Most of it music but there are occasionally other finds, like this article I posted.

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