A Bernie Sanders Supporter Confronted a Superdelegate — Then Leaked Their Private Conversation
(Article by Tom Cahill | March 30, 2016)
One superdelegate casually admitted to a Bernie Sanders supporter that shell vote to nominate Hillary Clinton, despite 81.6 percent of her state voting for Sanders.
Levi Younger, from Eagle River, Alaska, is a recent political science graduate who caucused last Saturday with thousands of other Alaskans. Younger recently reached out to superdelegate Kim Metcalfe on Facebook, asking her to side with her state and support Sanders at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia. Metcalfe, who is listed on the Alaska Democratic Party website as the states national committeewoman since 2012, cavalierly told Younger she would be supporting Hillary Clinton, due to her negative conversations with Sanders supporters.
I pointed out how our states caucus had turned out and hoped shed vote for our resounding majority, Younger told US Uncut in an email. Things unraveled pretty quick from there.
As seen by screenshots of Youngers conversation with Metcalfe, Younger approached the conversation with a diplomatic, respectful tone. However, Metcalfe refused to budge in her support of the former Secretary of State despite the popular opinion of the people, only saying she would support Sanders if he was the nominee.
**SNIP**
For more, go here.
djean111
(14,255 posts)And please don't maunder on about the "popular vote" - that would only count if all the primaries not caucuses. To use that number is bullshit. Not to mention how many people have been turned away for one shit reason or another.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I am saddened by the relentless attacks on those of us who support Bernie Sanders--those of us who recognize that he is the touchstone for our spirited and sincere efforts to reclaim our democracy.
I can tell you this, I LOVE Senator Sanders for his passion, his integrity, AND his willingness to undertake this arduous task when he could be at home with his family and his littlies. I will NEVER forget this incredible man. Already, in my estimation, he ranks up there with all the renowned, incredible activists worldwide who've given their time and often their lives in their quest for peace, unity, and an end to racism.
7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Thank you.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)AND, I'm glad that we're finding unity through Senator Sanders--and this, our peaceful revolution.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)yellerpup
(12,253 posts)I think Bernie will do better in NY than anyone expects. Sure, there is the Wall St. crowd but there is also Occupy! Nina Turner's rev up for Team Bernie in Brooklyn last week lit volunteers on fire. Upstate, they like Bernie if bumper stickers and yard signs mean anything at all.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I live in a state where Trump is viewed as the "great savior" of our democracy, because "he's not afraid to say what he thinks." Still, I view these last five of Bernie's victories as indicators of what we can expect throughout the remaining states.
Feeling the BERN!!!
#NotMeUs
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)I'm originally from Oklahoma, so I hear you.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)He would be THE President of my lifetime.
Anyone else is a fail.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I love how Bernie brings people together. He has already created positive change!
(Plus, little birdies LOVE him!)
mountain grammy
(26,598 posts)thank you.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I live in the mountains, but I am the only one of six sisters who chose to remain childless, so I don't qualify as a grammy. I sure do want to advocate for our younglings, though.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)This man (and his whole family - let's not forget that they're ALL impacted personally by Bernie's pursuit) is at a point in his life that most of us are hoping to be retired by! And you can tell that there's NO seeking of recognition for himself in his quest - it's all for the people that support him and those that don't as well. We're intensely lucky to have this blemish-proof leader taking on the establishment on behalf of those who get screwed by it!
This household LOVES you, Bernie Sanders!
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I expected this OP to sink into oblivion, so I'm thrilled that so many of us are discussing this issue.
Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Never felt that way about anyone in my 51 years...
I love what Jesus stood for, and abhor the religious right.
ybbor
(1,554 posts)I am so much a fan of Bernie! He is so inspiring, and his feeling that we can do this. It is about us and he is simply one of us, he just has the ability to be our leader. He truly cares about our needs and requirements to survive in today's world.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I looked over who the super delegates are in my state. The list reads like a Who's Who of Hillary Clinton fans.
The super delegates are all party stalwarts who are guaranteed to vote for Clinton. Regardless of how the constituents in their states vote.
What can we do about this?
SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)Follow the money, always ...
'In our research from 2008, campaign contributions for Obama and Clinton predicted endorsements for them 80 percent of the time,'said Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics, a campaign finance watchdog that studied those contributions.
In other words, the presidential candidate who gave money to a superdelegate usually got that delegates vote. Krumholz said theres a strong correlation, but not a clear cut quid pro quo."
Marketplace Money: "The power of superdelegates and campaign contributions" 3/1/16
http://www.marketplace.org/2016/03/01/world/power-superdelegates-and-campaign-contributions
Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)It's sickening
CrispyQ
(36,424 posts)Super delegates listed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016
Click on the "State" field to sort by State.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)for this link. It is very informative.
mpcamb
(2,868 posts)I'd LOVE to know what this super delegate gets out of a Clinton candidacy...
Money, Position, Favors, hey gang, it's politics and when something smells funny, like refusal to support an 80% candidate, there's a reason. And, there's always a payback.
dchill
(38,449 posts)Exactly.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Bernie certainly should have known about them before he ran
Tad Devine certainly knew about the superdelegates since he helped in creating them
sounds like sour grapes on the part of some
rules aren't changed in the middle of the game because one side is losing
djean111
(14,255 posts)If a Third Way Neocon hawk is representative of the party, and if super-delegates are more important to the party than actual voters, then obviously the party has morphed into something not democratic and not Democratic, as I define it for myself. And I am the only person who gets to do that.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)greiner3
(5,214 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)I'd say no
Diremoon
(86 posts)It is precisely this attitude from Hills and her supporters that have soured me on voting for her. When this campaign started, I would have voted for whoever the dem candidate was. I argued with people to convince them that that was the only reasonable thing to do. But we are starting to see just how republican Hills, and her supporters can be.
I don't feel that I owe my vote to anyone. And I sure as hell won't vote for someone that I think is going to screw me over, regardless of which party they are in.
It is time to write to Peters and Stabenow and convince them to change their votes. Bernie Sanders for President of the United States. I'm in this till the end.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)with my House rep, Xavier Becerra in CA. Think I'll write to him because he held multiple town meetings in support of Social Security. Although he piled on for Hillary last August, so there's still plenty of time for him to change his position.
Duval
(4,280 posts)stopbush
(24,393 posts)as Hillary is kicking Bernie's ass in the popular vote.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Because Neo-Con War Hawk Corporatists are more of what the Democratic Party needs, right?
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...and vote instead for their big donors?
Is massive vote suppression now a "rule" of the Clinton DNC as well?
Is declaring war on your voters even before they've voted (NY SDs) a new "rule"?
Are foul dirty tricks by David Brock (who smeared an African American woman named Anita Hill) now the "rule" in Democratic politics?
Are Henry Fucking Kissinger and Robert ("Project for a New American Century" Kagan now our rulers on foreign policy and war? Is the "rule" for Democratic leaders now the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people? Are the "rules" for foreign policy now pay-to-play with the Clinton Foundation (you pays your money, you get your foreign policy)?
The Clinton campaign gets more disgusting every day. And if it keeps up this shite, it is going to destroy the Democratic Party.
As for Clinton and her foreign policy advisers, they will destroy the entire world, including destroying the very habitability of our planet, for a cushy berth on the Titanic. Disgusting is not a strong enough word.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Jimmy Carter is a superdelegate. Al Gore is one as well. Who do they have to answer to if they choose to vote for a candidate at the national convention?
Superdelegates are named by the DNC not by grassroot voters.
Bernie knew that going into the process. He's one himself. Who does he answer to as a superdelegate? It wasn't the people of Vermont who chose him as one.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...as party officials trying to get their candidates elected, this year or in the future. Gore and Carter are very atypical SDs. And even they have a stake in the party's electoral success and party organization.
If the SDs defy THEIR ELECTORATE, they will tear the Democratic Party to pieces.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)or are you just being obtuse
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)supporter and activist. And you are wrong. The Super Delegates are unpledged but they are most certainly answerable to the voters. Or maybe they have a deal with ES&S/Diebold and the voters really and truly don't matter any more?
The voters will SIT ON THEIR HANDS in November if this arrogance and snottery continues that the SD's do not have an obligation to the voters. It's true in states that Clinton actually won, and it's true in states that Sanders has won, and it's true in states that are ties or near ties, as to proportional representation among the SD's. And it will continue to be true in the rest of the primaries, including NY where the SDs have announced that NONE OF THEM will vote for Sanders NO MATTER WHAT THE VOTERS SAY.
You want to lose the election AND the Democratic Party? You do that.
appalachiablue
(41,103 posts)Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Love it! I want to scream it from the rooftops!
Peace!
Stated well. Thank you!
Pauldg47
(640 posts)It's fun to see the BSers running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, even though nothing is wrong (at least not what they're complaining about, it's 100% legit!)
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)This statement is like trying to add a nail in a coffin that has already been buried for months.....or it's continued threats. Either way, the statement is bogus imho.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)demanded the actual count. the actual count is actually done. so popular vote is still counted in Iowa. can't say about other states. it is on the popular vote they do a math equation to get the SDE or whatever..
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Lol lol.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)What a great endorsement
Hillary, she's not a Trump....
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)But as long as it doesn't bother you, right!
Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #132)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Oh nope.... So why even throw out the Trump boogie man.
I'm quite certain in my belief of which of all the candidates will cause the most damage.
It's a no brainier to me.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)I must misunderstand you?
Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Sad hen the Dems make a case to support their nom choice in this way.
Vote for Hillary, she's not Trump.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)If not, say so.
Avalon Sparks
(2,560 posts)Yes I said I knew which candidate is the worst, but I certainly don't have to share that with you.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)I now recognize that you're playing 7th dimensional chess and the rest of us are clearly so dumb we can't understand how the way you're behaving in this thread is ProBernie. Please be patient with us.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)harun
(11,348 posts)Both being losing strategies.
ozone_man
(4,825 posts)This has been a primary filled with more Clinton corruption. They know no bounds.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Instead of thoughtful insight, they think they're mocking us with their "Conspiracy!" crap.
Why would you Even.Fucking.Bother.
Ugh, another one for the ignore can.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Are you trying to convince me that super-delegates don't overwhelmingly favor Clinton? Good luck with that.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Can't blame Democratic super delegates for favoring the Democrat, can you?
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Problem with all of this is so many here and out there are putting their personal feelings and needs above the needs of everybody else if they sit out the election, on either side.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)He is already raising $ for his 2018 Senate run, and as an Independent, not as a D.
NOT a Democrat.
MisterFred
(525 posts)Deal with it.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)MisterFred
(525 posts)You?
jmowreader
(50,530 posts)"I, Donald J. Trump, do solemnly swear..."
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)but I am certain that a lot of Clinton supporters secretly want Drumpf for president, because the polls show that Clinton does not win by as much a margin as Bernie does.
MisterFred
(525 posts)Is if Clinton is the nominee.
MisterFred
(525 posts)Yes. Yes, I will. It'll break the party, at least for an election. And it should.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)will of the voters.
How'd you miss that?
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Bernie is NOW a Democrat. Get over it.
He did not leave the Democratic Party, the Party left him, when they went corporate.
Bernie is more an FDR Democrat than a crappy Third Way Democrat.
Bernie has ALWAYS caucused with Democrats as well.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)an Independent for his 2018 Senate race and is currently raising money for that race.
Do YOU have two different party affiliations? Bernie does. He's only a D right now because - as he admitted - he is USING the D Party for his own personal gain.
He's no Democrat, trust me.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)I am a Working Family's Party member, a member of the Democratic Party, a member of The Socialist Labor Party, and a member of The Green Party.
I am currently registered for voting purposes as member of the Democratic Party.
Why can I only have ONE party membership?
Bernie certainly is a Democrat. And FDR Democrat, not a Third Way, Neocon corporatist.
MisterFred
(525 posts)It's because of attitudes like yours (and Clinton's) that I refuse to register as a member of America's conservative party: the Democrats. Message me when you decide to stop kicking liberals in the shins.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Back then we didn't whine and complain that the mean old D faithful wouldn't coddle we newbies. We joined up and fought the liberal fight against Nam and Nixon and racism.
If a little kick in the shins is too much for you, please, don't join the Ds. Enlist with the milquetoast Independents by all means. Ds need people who can take a little pushback. We don't need people who take their toys and go home at the first sign of trouble.
Message me when you grow a thicker skin. It's a necessity in politics.
Your thicker skin has become a tolerance of corruption. Go back to your roots and embrace actually fighting the good fight.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Your naivety is showing.
MisterFred
(525 posts)*rolls eyes*
Never taken a stance against progressive positions or civil rights.
*rolls eyes*
When did she FINALLY accept the idea of gay marriage again?
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Roll your eyes all you want. Support her or don't. It won't make any difference. She's going to be the next president.
And Bernie will go back to being a back bencher like he always has been, taking the easy way out by not committing to an actual political party, playing it safe by glomming onto the actual work the Dems do when it suits his agenda.
He is such a coward.
Says the anonymous guy spending all day on the internet attacking people he doesn't know.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)MisterFred
(525 posts)Obviously, you don't. You value courage in corruption, or some such.
That, or refreshing the internet.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Everything he said he wouldn't do, he's doing.
Such a coward.
MisterFred
(525 posts)stopbush
(24,393 posts)then lie about Hillary in your stump speech?
Is it integrity when you allow your followers to boo the mention of Hillary's name when you mention it in your stump speech?
Is it integrity to rail against Hillary taking $ from the oil industry when you're taking money from them as well?
Is it integrity to argue against the super delegates overturning the will of the pledged delegates then taking the opposite view when you realize that the supers ignoring the vote of the people and voting for you is the only chance you have to win?
How much integrity is involved in taking millions of $ in illegal campaign contributions that get flagged by the FEC?
How much integrity is involved in saying that it would be hypocritical for you to ever run as a D, then turning around and running as a D?
How much integrity is involved in running as a D not because you believe in the D platform, but because - as you admitted - it would be easier for you to raise $ and get on TV if you ran as a D?
How much integrity is involved in stealing voter information from Hillary's campaign?
Bernie has no integrity. Period.
MisterFred
(525 posts)But if you can't anticipate the very obvious (and dismissive) answers to those questions, then you haven't been paying attention.
You don't change someone's mind by attacking their conclusion. You change their mind by attacking their underlying premises.
Javaman
(62,504 posts)well played. >lone person slow clapping in full theater<
Response to onehandle (Reply #3)
LAS14 This message was self-deleted by its author.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... dig at Sanders' supporters??
Not serious, right?
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)7wo7rees
(5,128 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Vs. the whims and whines of those that don't understand it. It's the pattern of the perpetually outraged that because they've never bothered to research anything since it's so much easier to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon without a shred of actual facts, rules of the party and roles of Delegates.
KPN
(15,637 posts)That might be received better than calling those who are concerned about Superdelegates and the appearance of circumventing democratic process such things as uneducated, perpetually outraged, lazy and "conspiracy" prone.
Explain their role please.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)I've done so myself several times (even on this thread)....look it up. Get yourself educated, that's not my job. I prefer to point out the ridiculous assertions made by this who have no idea what is happening with their own party rules.
While you are at it, you will find out why there are Super Delegates that will vote for Bernie (Alan Grayson), regardless of how the State of Florida goes. Check it out, it's not that hard. There is a whole world of information you should gather for yourself, rather than relying on the limited and narrow scope I may offer.
That'S what I thought. You can't provide an explanation that comport with basic democratic principles. Already knew that but thought I w/b gracious enough to give you a chance. The rationale I've seen flies in the face of basic principles.
Paka
(2,760 posts)...the cadre of SD's are in place to prevent some "upstart, grassroots challenger" (hmmmm, wonder who that might be?) from being the nominee. SD's insure that the party has control.
But he knew that all along. It just doesn't sound all that democratic when it is articulated.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)not democratic.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)and you are in part correct...RNC nominates 3 Super Delegates for each states. And Super Delegates are supposed to vote in favor of the candidate that wins the popular vote in the state they represent.
Republican Rules is the method being touted by so many Bernie supporters.
Unfortunately in 2016, it's not how Super Delegates function in the DNC. I can tell you, that the role of Super Delegates is to represent the will of the party who chooses the Presidential candidate and generally casts their votes with that provision in mind.
......I'd bet $1,000,000 that the RNC wishes they didn't recently change their Super Delegate rules and had something more akin to what the DNC does lol.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)if the result is not what they wish? How very, very, very democratic of them. One man, one vote? Nah. No one "more equal" than another? Nah. Oligarchy? Yup.
Btw, if the role of Super Delegates was to represent the will of the party--as opposed to the Party--there would be no fucking reason for them to exist at all.
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)Truly, this SBS supporter does not understand the SD concept. He should ask Tad Devine to explain it to him because Tad was instrumental in its creation.
What this supporter - and others like him - also fail to recognize is that if SDs were required to follow the decision of the majority in their states, Hillary Clinton would have an even larger lead in SDs right now. They need to do the math and see this for themselves. As it is, while a majority of SDs have endorsed Hillary and a small number have endorsed Bernie, there are still several who have not yet announced their support for either candidate and are still presumably in play.
Being swarmed by supporters of one candidate who demand that SDs support that candidate in spite of their own personal experience with and preference for the other will very likely result in SDs digging in even deeper for the candidate of their choice and disliking those, and by extension their candidate, who attempt to force their preferences on them. This psychological fact appears totally lost in the shuffle and brouhaha but is demonstrated vividly in this case.
This fact also works in Hillary's favor because it is not Hillary supporters who are doing the swarming. As a Hillary supporter, I say "Bring it on!"
TexasBushwhacker
(20,148 posts)I don't have a problem trying to get more SD votes for Sanders, but SDs already committed to Clinton aren't exactly low hanging fruit. There are still over 200 uncommitted SDs. Approach them first and do it respectfully. Maybe it's a southern thing, but I still think you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I've been criticized for that approach (Fuck that shit!) but I stand by it. JMHO.
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)the better strategy.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Before it used to be "winner take all."
The super delegates are another element which Tad Devine had no part in.
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)Devine's role in the creation of the SD process was more significant than you believe.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/super-delegates-center-democratic-nomination-fight-again-n516891
Ironically, Tad Devine, Sanders' top adviser, who was instrumental in the creation of the superdelegate process, defended their existence.
Here's an article written by Tad himself. http://www.pollingreport.com/delegates.htm He knows ALL about how the system works. It is disingenuous of him - or of Bernie, by extension - to pretend otherwise.
As for Devine's responsibility in developing the proportional allocation of delegates, I cannot find any link that bears that out. Perhaps you can enlighten me.
riversedge
(70,092 posts)shireen
(8,333 posts)Unless the Democratic party is absolutely incredibly stupid.
If they even try to do it, the backlash will destroy them and we may see the first Independent president elected without political party support.
The Democratic establishment knows that either Bernie or Hillary could easily defeat Trump. To sabotage that opportunity just so Clinton can win the nomination via superdelegate count will be self-destructive on so many levels.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)"May you live in interesting times."
While the provenance of this bon mot is suspect, I think it richly describes what we're witnessing.
c-ville rook
(45 posts)Unless Kim Metcalfe disagrees with it. In which case she will nullify a few thousand votes with her own. And tell you why you do not understand the world while she is at it.
I think that annoyed me the most.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)are getting involved in politics on an unprecedented level, due largely to the existence of people like this "super-delegate" -- even the existence of "super-delegates" is anathema to many.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)As a lifetime Democrat it is very painful to realize who my party has failed since 1992. Damn the DLC and the traitors in it.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Plus, I have felt shell-shocked after many of my encounters with Hi11ary supporters, so much so that I have most of them on my IL.
I am thrilled that my fellow Bernie supporters are supportive, compassionate, informed voters.
beltanefauve
(1,784 posts)Nothing but caucus??? A young person gets involved, maybe for the first time, and this is the way she gets treated!
IOW, just shut up and vote. And eat your peas.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)It's rather telling, isn't it?
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)super delegate, to vote Hillary.
Typical Hillary supporter.
dchill
(38,449 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)like their candidate, many Hi11ary supporters are in react mode. It's not a comfortable space.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)using a few of his supporters as an excuse than it is to vote for someone because of their body parts.
Unless she comes up with a better reason, I have to assume that is why she is voting for Hillary, body parts.
mark67
(196 posts)Either you are incredibly young or incredibly naïve if you don't see how this will turn out.
If Sanders gets the nomination his remarks about Fidel Castro and the label "socialist" will air nonstop for the next 6 months. Most Americans are not enlightened...elections are won and lost on these trivialities.
But if Sanders gets the nomination I'll vote for him. Too much is at stake this year and I hope disillusioned Sanders supporters don't decide to sit this one out in the general.
Trump is not Bob Dole.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Won't we?
TBF
(32,015 posts)and Gore had the popular vote - only lost because of cheating in FL/Supreme Court.
"Too much is at stake this year" is repeated over and over - yet you are running a candidate who couldn't even beat the little known Barack Obama in 2008. Enough with the swinging at leftists.
If you run Hillary and she loses it is on the Third Way. It is not the fault of the left.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)An I for most of his political life doesn't make him a Democrat.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)We're coming out of a two-term democratic presidency. Winning a third term is pretty hard for any party to do. And our presumptive nominee has nothing to offer, except that she's not a Republican. That plays well with hardcore party loyalists, but you can't win an election with just that nugget of absolutists.
We're coming into a hard stretch, one that has almost never seen victory without the previous presdient dying in office, and we're offering, what, a stopgap? A candidate that has little to no appeal to the majority if Americans, beyond hteir slightly higher disgust for the presumptive Republican nominee? A candidate that has very openly, very ardently made it clear that she's completely willing, even eager, to discard over a third of her own party in an effort to make goody-goody with the very people she's running as a stopgap against?
Trump isn't Bob Dole, but Clinton is looking a lot like Mondale.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)He won ONE state. His home state MN. Surely the Republicans wouldn't use that video against Bernie in the GE?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You want to snarl about bernie, i'm sure you can make a dozen or so OP's in the HRC group.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I didn't bring up Mondale
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)$250k per year and above
The Republicans will label Hillary a "Socialist" too,
just like they have done for every single Democratic nominee since FDR,
so your complaint holds no water.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Both pro Iraq War, both Establishment, Both lacking in the ability to generate enthusiasm. Enjoy your repeat.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)to support the wants of the majority. Not giving your vote to a person that deserved it, is wrong. Your personal feelings should NEVER interfere. Your job is to represent the people. Sorry, but Metcalfe has proven she's another establishment politician and has to go.
What's she's doing should be illegal.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)most people recognize precisely what you've said.
Indeed, what she's doing should be illegal.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Super Delegates often represent the will of the Party. Primary voting is NOT an election, its a poll. Right now, a majority of the votes are going to Hillary. For right now, the Super Delegates and the DNC appear to be representing the will of the majority of the people.
Certainly, rules concerning the role of Super Delegates can be changed within the party...maybe to something more akin to what the Republicans do....but I can tell you that right now, today the RNC wishes they had not changed their rules and had something more similar to what the Dems use.
No Candidate for POTUS has to align themselves with a party and then can avoid the mess of Primaries and Delegate counts. The Primary for DNC and RNC is merely a way to make a party nomination. Bernie knew the Primary rules when he decided to align himself with the party he despised, until very recently.
beltanefauve
(1,784 posts)"...today the RNC wishes they had not changed their rules and had something more similar to what the Dems use."
The RNC wishes they could rig the nominations so Trump doesn't get it.
Just like the DNC wants to rig the nomination for Hillary.
I get it.
BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)It's a rule of the Democratic party. One may not like it, but if one chooses to run as a Democrat, one follows the rules of the Democratic party. Per the rules of the Democratic party, anyone who is designated as a SD may endorse the candidate of their choice, notwithstanding the votes in their state.
This particular individual was NOT elected at all, btw. Since the SD issue keeps repeating itself ad nauseam, please actually check it out for yourself. See, e.g., the 2016 SDs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016
20 distinguished party leaders (DPL), consisting of current and former presidents, vice-presidents, congressional leaders, and DNC chairs
21 Democratic governors (including territorial governors and the Mayor of the District of Columbia)
46 Democratic members of the United States Senate (including Washington, DC shadow senators)
193 Democratic members of the United States House of Representatives (including non-voting delegates)
435 elected members of the Democratic National Committee (including the chairs and vice-chairs of each state's Democratic Party)
Superdelegates are "unpledged" in the sense that they themselves decide which candidate to support. (In other words, they are not allocated according to voter preferences as the majority of delegates are.) Pledged delegates can change their vote if no candidate is elected on the first ballot and can even vote for a different candidate on the first ballot if they are "released" by the candidate they are pledged to. Superdelegates, on the other hand, can change their vote purely of their own volition.
If you find this "undemocratic" and insist that SDs MUST follow the will of the voters in their states by endorsing the candidate who won the majority of votes, then think about what that actually means. Other than its actually being impossible to change for this election cycle, you may want to be careful what you wish for.
So far Hillary has won the majority of pledged delegates and is ahead by more than 2.5 million popular votes. She has won Iowa, Nevada, South Carolina, Alabama, American Samoa, Arkansas, Georgia, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Northern Marianas, Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio, and Arizona. If she were to automatically receive ALL SDs from these states based on her wins there, she would actually have MORE SDs than she has now.
Certainly in this scenario, Bernie would also have more SDs than he has now based on his wins. But for the most part, his wins have not occurred in populous or diverse states/territories that have as many SDs and so he would thus still be behind.
As it happens, some of Bernie's current SDs actually come from states where Hillary has won. But you do not see Hillary supporters swarming them or those SDs who are still in play to go against their preferences.
Those states remaining in the cycle that have both the most pledged delegates and the most SDs are largely Hillary-friendly states. Whether she actually wins there or not (and she certainly is likely to in closed primaries especially), so long as she continues to accumulate delegates in significant numbers - as she will - she will most likely remain in the lead overall.
Fla Dem
(23,591 posts)Please read responses 83 & 149. Super Delagates have absolutely no obligation to voters.
onecaliberal
(32,786 posts)This is why, ALOT of people will NEVER EVER vote for her.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)End of story.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)I don't think we have that issue this year. Sanders blows all GOP opponents out of the water (while Hillary loses to some of them according to RealClearPolitics general election poll results)
Sanders is obviously the most electable in the general.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)When I look at the surveys you've mentioned, I cannot understand why anyone supports Hi11ary.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)I agree, but that's if he makes the general. Illegal shit like this will stop it from happening, therefore we all get screwed and the establishment wins again. I CALL BULLSHIT!!!
This shit has to stop.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Millennials will shun Hillary as well as real progressives/liberals who are SICK AND TIRED of the establishment BS and the long, steady shift to the right for the party.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Thanks for the link!
This is NOT a vote for president, this is a vote for who will represent the Democratic Party ticket in the run for President.
The system was NOT setup after Bernie changed his party affiliation, and threw his hat into the race about a year ago.
Superdelegates like Metcalfe have EARNED their position and right to have a greater voice. Just like those few who have thrown in for Bernie have earned there.
If Bernie doesn't like the system then he shouldn't be on the ticket.
Good for Metcalfe!
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)represents several national unions. I have always voted for Democrats, but to have this Super Delagate system is wrong and I imagine that most Hillary supporters would be screaming if the shoe was on the other foot.
I just ask Hillary supporters to be honest with themselves on this issue. You ask Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary if she wins the Primary because we must support the Party. If the Party is putting their thumb on the scale for one candidate, using something as undemocratic as the Super Delagate system, why should we support this?
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)For all the talk of "democracy" here do you even realize that Hillary actually won the popular vote in 2008?
17,857,501 (48.04%) for Hillary,
17,584,692 (47.31%) for Obama.
Had it not been for the superdelegates of 2008, it would have ended in a brokered convention. Obama had a slight lead in pledged delegates, and Hillary had a slight lead in popular vote. It was the endorsements from all of the other candidates that dropped out, combined with the overwhelming support of superdelegates that put President Obama on the ticket by 562 superdelegates for President Obama to 211 for Hillary Clinton.
Now, just because the opposing candidate doesn't like the rules of the party he joined in the 11th hour to run on their ticket, we're supposed to change the rules to accommodate? To hell with that.
The Party did put their thumb on the scale, and has ever since the rules changed in the 60's. There were some here who supported Hillary who were outraged (much like Sanders peop's are now) about the system. I, for one, wasn't one of those people.. that's the way the Democratic Party system works. Overall it is a good system.
For someone with the experience you list this should not be news to you.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)Bernie has caucused with Democrats and supported our issues. I bet if he had chosen to run as an Independant you would be even more critical of him.
The 11th hour stuff is crap. The Party preferred he run as a Democrat and allowed him to, it's not a valid reason to treat his candidacy as a red headed step child! What happened to fairness? That is the cornerstone of what the Democrats are supposed to be about. Now the Party is behaving no better than the Republicans.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)And FYI, most caucus states tend to report the number of county convention level delegates that each candidate earns from the caucus "vote," not the actual vote count used to do the math to allocate those delegates. So crying "popular vote" instead of using the pledged delegate count disregards caucus states, but that's perfectly fine with Hillary supporters because Hillary doesn't do very well in caucuses.
2008 did not see a 1968 style post-convention meltdown because even if Hillary would have taken it to a floor fight (she didn't), the superdelegates essentially ratified the pledged delegate result.
The possibilities, even indications, are that this year will be very different.
If Bernie manages to catch up to and pass Hillary in pledged delegates (mathematically unlikely but still possible), and we see this kind of behavior from supers giving the nomination to Hillary anyway, there will be hell to pay in the General. The supers can say "that's the rules!" all they want, but using legalistic semantics will do nothing to increase turnout for Democrats in the general. It can only hurt and lead to a 40+ state victory for the party that campaigns on "We didn't steal our party's nomination, because we're more democratic than the Democrats!"
^^ Yes, I can see the from here. But mark my words, if Bernie should enter Philadelphia having won a majority of pledged delegates and the supers, expressing the same kinds of sentiments reported in the OP give it to Hillary, the GOP will win by margins not seen since Raygun. Outside of the DU bubble, the "Democrats rigged their nomination" line will be a very potent attack against us in the general, whether we like it or not. Especially because the DNC and its apparatus have already shown so much favoritism in this primary, above and beyond the usual endorsements.
The superdelegates would be foolish to not consider that very, very carefully.
TBF, after Bernie's recent blowouts there has been some speculation about Bernie's camp trying to use supers to flip a pledged delegate majority for Hillary. If that happens, I expect the general to bear out much the same result. For that reason, I'm waiting until the June 7th results are in before (respectfully I might add) writing my supers.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Hence the words "Obama had a slight lead in pledged delegates" in my post. Which he did.
The final popular vote count does include caucus numbers. Just had a Caucus in Washington, the voter count is listed, and added to the total turnout numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016
You can even look the numbers up by state. For example Washington 2008 @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Democratic_caucuses,_2008
So.. you are wrong about the popular vote. Hillary did win the popular, even if it was by a small amount.
You are right about this year being different. There isn't a swarm of other candidates running to drop out and endorse Bernie. The overwhelming majority of Democrats who have done all of the heavy lifting for the party, many for decades, are throwing in behind Hillary.
If there is "hell to pay" in the General because of poutrage that one candidate couldn't gain the support needed to win over the other.. Well then everyone who does decide to do that deserves the president they get, and the judicial appointments they get, and the laws that come from it. I will not be held hostage by others threatening to take their toys and go home.
Your side might want to also start tempering that shitty rhetoric. If Bernie does come up from behind and pull this upset off, you're going to need us as well.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)It adds the words "or equivalent" to popular vote. In the case of my state (WA caucus), the number that you are trying to claim is the popular vote, is actually the number of delegates to county/legislative district conventions that were elected!
Popular vote to county delegate conversion is NOT a 1:1 equivalent of popular vote! It cannot simply be added to the popular vote of primary-holding states as if it was the same thing, because it is not. If, on average, a precinct with 8 delegates to allocate has 100 caucusgoers show up to "vote," that precinct will report 8 "votes," not 100, which leads to each caucusgoer only being "worth" 8/100 of a voter or .08 vote when the caucus results are added to the popular vote!
The actual "popular vote" of the WA caucus is not reported. I have not been able to find the raw vote count used to arrive at the local convention delegate totals anywhere. I am not sure whether or not all states that had caucuses in 2008 reported the actual raw popular vote, but I know DAMN sure they're not bothering to report popular vote in 2016.
That is why I focused on pledged delegates, not popular vote.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)I'm so tired of the conceit of the Sanders supporters that imagines that anything that works against their Democrat-by-convenience candidate needs to be changed in their favor. Sanders is being roundly rejected by the majority of voters who are voting in the D primaries. He ought to face up to the fact that he's not going to be the nominee and do something constructive for the D Party.
muktiman
(19 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)certainly has changed since my younger activist days. I hardly recognize it.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)I'm confused by the logic behind many of the arguments being made about superdelegates. What I hear is:
If their state voted for Bernie, they should honor the will of the people. If their state voted for Hillary, they should still vote for Bernie, because he's better.
At the end of the primaries, they absolutely cannot overturn the national results, unless Hillary wins, because Bernie is better.
---
It's one thing to dislike the system, which is far from ideal, but it's another to be in conflict within your own beliefs. It shouldn't be asking too much to require a bit of consistency to our thinking.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Would be nice if some of the conspiracists actually knew what the role and purpose of Super Delegates was, before spouting ultimatums and threats.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Welcome to DU, first of all. I am always glad to see more of us being politically active, especially when it involves posting on a political website (where many of our younglings are getting their information).
That being said, I don't hear those messages you allege to hear. Instead, I hear "Bernie should pull out of the race and support Hillary." I'm glad he's in it to win it.
Also, I had to log out to see some of the responses to my OP, because I have many of the Hi11ary group on my IL (you might look up IL if you're new to DU). This makes it much more pleasant to participate in DU.
(P. S. I think you might belong on my IL, so I'll bid you a diplomatic farewell.)
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)She's won more states with more Superdelegates and she's up in the polls in the next biggest super-delegate rich states. She could end Apr. having won states with a total of over half the superdelegates and if they become a "winner-take-all" by state thing, her delegate lead would balloon.
I've also yet to see someone who wasn't a Hillary Supporter complained that Elizabeth Warren or Alan Grayson haven't endorsed her or switched(declared) their votes for her. She did win their states after all.
The Sanders campaign isn't arguing this for a reason. They know that it has the potential to backfire ridiculously and I wish his supporters would respect that. Make this argument after PA or CA or when the campaign does it, because it is too early in the primary calendar to do this.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,222 posts)stopbush
(24,393 posts)Glad she didn't budge.
2banon
(7,321 posts)stopbush
(24,393 posts)that the SCOTUS has ruled have wide discretion on how they want to run their nominating process.
There's nothing wrong with the Ds using super delegates however they want to use them. No one is electing a person to public office. They are selecting a person to run as a candidate to public office. As such, the idea of one-person, one-vote has no more agency in such a process than would be allowing baseball fans to tell the manager which players he will play.
To imagine that super delegates are there to represent the majority vote in their state simply betrays an appalling lack of knowledge about Party operations and why the super delegates were created by Bernie's campaign guru Tad Devine in the first place.
2banon
(7,321 posts)Thanks for the reminder.
I do suggest you might want to refrain from calling 99% of the American Citizens "jerks" for not knowing that's a big private club, and we ain't in it.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)Are your sensitive feelings hurt? Not being coddled enough?
My feelings hurt?!
Not even an eensy weensy bit.
The only reason why I suggested you refrain from calling 99.9% of Americans jerks should be obvious. But if it needs explaining, ask the jerk the next time you look in the mirror. Maybe you'll have your answer if you look real close.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)"We got rid of rigged conventions a half century ago!" (Especially if Trump wins an outright majority and our supers rig it, oh that would be a horror show.)
Worse, the conduct of the DNC over the course of the entire primary has been anything but impartial (and I'm not talking about endorsements) and will only feed such perceptions further.
Outside of the DU bubble, that attack will doom our nominee, no matter if it is Hillary or Bernie, if the supers override the pledged delegate majority.
I fear the supers, in their arrogance, will not give adequate consideration to the general-election consequences of overriding the primary results. And I reiterate (as a Bernie supporter) that such foolish behavior could go either way, although I expect Hillary to be the short-term beneficiary of such foolishness.
stopbush
(24,393 posts)be able to close under even the rosiest scenario.
The only people advocating that the super delegates override the pledged delegate count are Tad Devine and the Sanders campaign.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)And that only uses data up until March 25th. I can tell you that the 26th SURPASSED "the rosiest scenario" predicted by the #feelthemath crowd the day before.
Keep Coasting, Camp Hillary!
klook
(12,152 posts)"1 person casts 1 vote, but 1 super-person reverses thousands of votes"!
What a jerk! How naive!!
Or so I read on DU.
c-ville rook
(45 posts)The super-delegate system is horrendous.
By its own design it was made to thwart the will of the people. That alone is reason enough to ditch it. Maybe a system is needed to avoid the Trump scenario -- but this should not be it.
Boomer
(4,167 posts)News flash: Political parties can make up any rules they want, select any nominee they want, because they are NOT part of the government. They are public organizations uniting around a political agenda and organized to promote their agenda; they are not governed by our rules of democracy.
Once you get over the expectation that parties should bow to the will of the people -- which is what the general election is about -- you can better maneuver party politics. Don't let indignation over false transgressions cloud your vision.
The good news is that the process is more transparent than in the past when party leaders went into a smoke-filled room, discussed what was best for the party as they saw it, then came up with a nominee. At least now the more general members have some say in the process.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Kabuki Theater?
You know, I have a hard time believing that our vote is uncompromised, given the electronic voting machines, the long lines at precincts, the voter suppression, etc.
What struck me the most about this article is the willfulness of some Hi11ary supporters -- a tenacious clinging to her as the "presumptive nominee," despite her many, glaring issues. I think such individuals are out of touch with our current reality, wherein radical income inequity threatens the well-being of BILLIONS of humans on this planet.
That's what we have to change, Boomer. That, and our soon to be unlivable climate. And, I refuse to go quietly into that dark night. I WILL continue to advocate--for Bernie in the White House, and for the future of our younglings.
strategery blunder
(4,225 posts)of overriding the pledged delegate vote is a very, very foolish superdelegate indeed.
Regardless of what we in the DU bubble think, "The Democratic party rigged their nomination!" repeated ad naseum guarantees we will lose the general by margins not seen since Raygun.
(Which some superdelegates would probably want if Bernie catches up and passes Hillary in the pledged delegate count.)
chervilant
(8,267 posts)If she doesn't understand how people will respond to her, she isn't fit to be a super-delegate.
dcbuckeye
(79 posts)This kind of behavior by Bernie's supporters is only going to backfire and cause the Hillary SDs to hunker down and dig in their heels even more.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)That's such a stellar reason to support a candidate...
dchill
(38,449 posts)Fla Dem
(23,591 posts)su·per·del·e·gate
ˈso͞opərˌdeləɡət/
nounUS
plural noun: super-delegates
(in the Democratic Party) an unelected delegate who is free to support any candidate for the presidential nomination at the party's national convention.
Kim Metcalfe is not an elected official.
April 4, 2008 6:00 AM ET
It's widely viewed that the Democratic presidential nominee may be decided by the party's superdelegates.
Steve Inskeep talks to Democratic strategist Tad Devine about the origins of superdelegates. They also discuss how a protracted Democratic presidential nomination contest could affect the party's chances in the general election.
Superdelegates Primer: What You Need to Know
What's a superdelegate?
As much of America must know by now, superdelegates are those Democratic Party leaders and elected officials who are automatically delegates to the national convention. In order to win the Democratic presidential nomination, a candidate must win not only the pledged delegates who are apportioned according to the results of the primaries or caucuses, but enough of the superdelegates, who can choose to endorse whichever candidate they wish, regardless of the results of primaries in their state or district.
Who gets to be a superdelegate?
Every Democratic member of the House and Senate, every Democratic governor and members of the Democratic National Committee (such as state party chairs, vice chairs and national committeemen and women) automatically get to be superdelegates. Also included: former Democratic presidents and vice presidents, former Democratic House and Senate leaders, and ex-DNC chairs.
How do superdelegates decide which candidate to support?
Though they aren't bound by the results of primaries or caucuses, superdelegates will often throw their support to whomever they think will make the stronger presidential nominee in the general election. Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar says that's one of the reasons why she decided to endorse Obama on Monday.
Sometimes, pressure back home makes a difference. Georgia Rep. John Lewis, an influential member of Congress, initially endorsed Clinton last year. But his district went overwhelmingly for Obama in the February primary, so Lewis made the unusual decision to switch his support to the Illinois senator.
More at link:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89369899
frylock
(34,825 posts)Has there ever been a group more thin-skinned than Mrs. Clinton's most ardent supporters?
TBF
(32,015 posts)They've had enough of his "tone". Of course if they can't handle the bird whisperer it ought to be pretty amusing watching them deal with Trump in the fall.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)it doesn't come to that. Bernie is--by far--the best candidate I've seen in my lifetime.
Go, BERNIE!!!
#NotMeUs
chervilant
(8,267 posts)self-righteous, arrogant, condescending... I've experienced all this and more with some of her supporters.
Go BERNIE!!!!
#NotMeUs
Eko
(7,246 posts)Keep telling the superdelegate that they have to vote the way you want them to instead of how they want to as is their right. Tell them they are stealing it for Clinton, then when you don't get your way start talking riots, that'll bring them superdelegates to us. Stupidity.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Levi Younger ASKED her to vote with the majority of her state: 81.6% of the voters. I think that's a reasonable request.
(Please stop implying that fellow DUers are stupid.)
Go BERNIE!!!
#NotMeUs
stopbush
(24,393 posts)The population of Alaska in about 740,000. If half those people are Ds, you're talking 10,000 out of 370,000 who voted in the caucuses. That's 2% of Alaskan Dems deciding the D caucus winner. Of that 2%, 80% supported Bernie.
One could ask if it's fair for 1.6% of the Ds to speak for 100% of the Ds in the state. If you're going to say that a super delegate must be bound by the preference expressed by 1.6% of the Ds in Alaska, then you also need to address how unfair caucuses are in general.
If your answer is, "well, a caucus is the format they've decided to use in Alaska," then you have to be OK with the super delegates being used the way the DNC designed them to be used.
Eko
(7,246 posts)"youre stealing this for hillary" That is not asking at all, that is being stupid as well as telling the super delegate that she does not get to vote the way she wants to. I said straight out that the person asking them to switch was stupid, I did not imply anyone on DU. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)from the party; but he chose a different path and so the party faithfuls are more faithful to the party than someone who joined just to use their coattails. I'm not saying this is right, but I think that is what it is about. Obama used super delegates to his advantage as he was a party member from the beginning of his career.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)this strange assertion, that Senator Sanders "could have joined the party years ago." This is a straw man argument, and a poor one.
I suspect that, like their beleaguered candidate, many Hi11ary supporters are in react mode, a very tenuous place to be. I think you would all feel much better supporting a candidate who has integrity.
Go BERNIE!!!
#NotMeUs
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)I'm a democrat.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Right?
merrily
(45,251 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)I posted the article with the exact headline provided in the original.
Plus, I think Metcalfe was condescending, and defensive.
merrily
(45,251 posts)replying to the Opening Post.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)You've been here 12 years, longer than I have. So, maybe you can explain how I can possibly comment on the article that comprises the Opening Post except by replying to the Opening Post. Thanks.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)AND, I don't understand your comment at all. Perhaps you could explain more clearly?
merrily
(45,251 posts)The only thing that is unclear is why you took a reply to an OP as accusing you of something.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)that we have two different understandings of "OP." For me, it means "original poster." Thus, your comment sounds like a snark.
Apparently, it means something completely different to you.
I am only guessing, since you're unwilling to help me understand.
merrily
(45,251 posts)way one can-by replying to the Opening post (or Opening Poster) means I accused the the Opening Poster of changing the headline?
So does "Maybe you can explain how I can possibly comment on the article that comprises the Opening Post except by replying to the Opening Post."
Both those explanations were unclear and signified an unwillingness on my part to explain my original to you?
As already stated, I don't know how I could have made the meaning of my original reply any clearer.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)You are the only one who's beating the "accused" drum here. Also, I have explained I didn't (and don't) understand. Your response to my explanation is to defend your posts? Wow.
Just FYI, my initial response was not an accusation. It was a clarification.
It's okay. You can be right. Let it go.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Also love it when people keep posting to me, but I'm the one who's wrong or posting excessively because I reply.
merrily (39,441 posts)
129. "Leaked?" Please. She spoke "cavalierly."
chervilant (7,904 posts)
133. Please note that I posted the article with the exact headline provided in the original. Plus, I think Metcalfe was condescending, and defensive.
Sure seemed as though you thought I'd accused you of something.
riversedge
(70,092 posts)avaistheone1
(14,626 posts)Their existing role undermines our democracy, one person one vote.
I love it when Levi informed the super delegate, "Your personal preferences for president are represented in your vote as a citizen. Not as a representative of your state."
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)those registered, low registration among those eligible. Second problem is that if few were motivated to vote and 80% of those voted for one candidate, the 20% candidate is the one who really failed to bring them out. Obviously.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)It really is impersonal, haughty and disrespectful.
Good on Levi.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)She was condescending. Totally unnecessary.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Does one support this, or not? THAT is the question...
chervilant
(8,267 posts)One has to wonder how people who lie, cheat and steal live with themselves. Wonder still more when such individuals represent themselves as "Christian."
kadaholo
(304 posts)This is UNBELIEVABLE! After reading an article at Anonymous on the antics in Arizona, I noticed a comment attached to the article that stated there are widespread reports of voter registration manipulation in PA and NY.
See article: Anonymous Investigate Arizona Election Fraud, Sanders Was Hacked
Link: http://www.anonews.co/anonymous-sanders-hack/
Since I live in PA and am a Bernie supporter, I decided to confirm my registration immediately.
I checked the VotesPA website and, sure enough, voter registration information on both my husband and me is not available!!! We have been registered Democrats and voting at this location since 1987 and 1994 respectively.
This is the message that came up for both of us: "No Voter Registration information could be found for the data provided. Either search again using different data or contact your County Voter Registration Office."
Calling tomorrow and surprise (not), we are Bernie supporters!!! INCREDIBLE!!! Just coincidence in state after state???? I think not!!!
Seems like those two lapses in the firewall (both reported by the Sanders Campaign) are benefitting only one of our two Democratic candidates...
HIGHEST PRIORITY!!! PLEASE TELL EVERYONE WHO IS STILL WAITING TO VOTE IN PRIMARIES TO CHECK THEIR REGISTRATION...ESPECIALLY FRIENDS IN NY AND PA!!!
AzDar
(14,023 posts)kadaholo
(304 posts)Thanks, AzDar! Most Helpful! Just posted as new thread in primary discussions.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)this egregious voter registration manipulation. I have to wonder exactly whose account was hacked, and by whom, at the DNC. Shady goings on, for sure.
Hopefully, messages like yours will help inform Bernie's supporters, who seem to be the only ones facing this issue.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)And, I have seen lots of posts about her, myself.
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Just post on his page for review as he has no message inbox.
LuvLoogie
(6,936 posts)ish of the hammer
(444 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)IMHO, she missed an opportunity to speak diplomatically with a youngling activist. I have friends who support Hi11ary, and we have discussions all the time without being snarky or condescending. (It would be nice to have those types of convos here...)
Go, Bernie!!!
#NotMeUs
(One of my Hi11ary friends LOVES Bernie!)
ish of the hammer
(444 posts)And you're worried about being snarky?
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Verbal abuse is unnecessary. One can convey a thought or a position without being "snarky."
(Concern about climate or politics does not preclude diplomacy...)
ish of the hammer
(444 posts)10 feet of ocean rise by 2050. Unending wars, profits for corporations, death for everyone else.
The Jews were very polite, I hear, as they walked into the gas chambers.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I am the only one of six sisters who chose to remain childless. Mine was a deliberate decision, reached after I read Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring." I was a prepubescent (9-11 YO) geek child.
I have never regretted my decision. In my 60 years on this planet, I have witnessed:
-- heavy metal pollution of the majority of our groundwater.
--depleted uranium.
--erosion and degradation of our topsoil, with a resulting decrease in nutrients in our fruits and vegetables.
--radical income inequity.
--relentless adherence to fossil fuels and nuclear power.
--overfishing and pollution of all the bodies of water on the planet.
--acidification of the oceans, and bleaching of most coral reefs.
--destruction of the rain forests.
--accelerated extinctions of multiple species of plants, insects and animals.
--ginormous swaths of floating plastic debris in all of the earth's oceans.
--oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico, off the coast of Alaska, and in numerous other pristine environments.
--an increasing number of highly toxic superfund sites.
--Chernobyl.
--Fukushima.
--multiple nuclear "accidents" across the globe.
--the "calving" of huge pieces of ice (in one instance, bigger than the island of Manhattan) as glaciers disintegrate.
--catastrophic climate change, with freaky, ginormous storms.
I find it interesting that you think my advocacy for diplomacy equates with an ignorance of what our species is facing over the next decade. You might want to do a bit of research on my past observations herein.
In 2012, I watched a video of a climate symposium from 2008, wherein a prominent climate scientist explained that unstoppable positive feedback loops were already accelerating climate change. Unstoppable... Already.
It's going to be far worse than people know, and hardly anyone is paying attention, so I understand your concern. However, I don't understand, nor do I appreciate, your intimation that I am misguided in wanting people to have each others' backs. Our species is facing a daunting future, and I hope enough of us are committed to helping our younglings, on the off chance that this is not our species' extinction event.
ish of the hammer
(444 posts)You see the existential problem facing all of us. Not our own deaths, but rather the death of the human species and possibly life itself on this mud ball. If we expect to survive over the next couple of generations, politeness and lack thereof will be the least of our problems. But I Agee that, as my wife says, kindness above all. Peace
BernersFaceFacts
(2 posts)Far be it for me to add reality in the mix for Bernie supporters, but this is the most ridiculous nonsense ever put forward as a controversy. It was bad enough when the Berners thought that the superdelegates were out to steal the election for Clinton after Bernie won New Hampshire (Even though the Superdelegates' votes or intentions won't even count before the convention). But now they have just really gone off the deep end. This episode between Levi Younger and Kim Metcalfe is just the pinnacle of hysteria and desperation on the Berners' part. (FYI, I think Ms. Metcalfe was supremely patient and forthright with Mr. Younger. Indeed, as she predicted, his tone changed to aggressive as he realized she would not allow herself to be bullied.)
Let's start with some stubborn facts, shall we? Bernie Sanders supporters have initiated a concerted effort to sway the votes of the Democratic superdelegates in regards to the nomination for president. The name of their group is entitled the Superdelegate Task Force Army. It consists of passionate partisans angling to get superdelegates in states won overwhelmingly by Bernie Sanders to declare or flip their votes from Hillary Clinton to Bernie Sanders. Their clarion call is that the superdelegates should allow democracy to reign by pressuring the officials to follow the will of their states in regards to overwhelmingly voting for Sanders. Their position is highly disingenuous on the merits, and is cynically self-serving in its implementation. But why you ask? Well, never mentioned in their passionate demands to follow the will of the people who voted in large numbers for their candidate is the obverse calls to superdelegates supporting Sanders from those states that overwhelmingly voted for Clinton to now fall in line for her. Apparently, reciprocity is in short supply, but hypocrisy is abundant with this group. It should also be noted that the amount of chutzpah that these activist have in trying to dictate to superdelegates how they should vote is off-the-charts. This system has been set up for decades, and despite what sour-grapes Berners may say at this crucial point in time, it is not a corrupt system and should not be remade immediately so that their candidate can have a better shot at the nomination. (Perhaps if he started dominating the voting from this point onwards?) Remember that these people,the non-officeholders, became superdelegates because they were in the trenches and worked hard to establish the Democratic party into the modern organization that it is today. They have earned their autonomy and freedom to cast their nomination votes as they see fit. Berners, a very recent phenomenon, should have a seat and a muzzle before telling any superdelegate how he/she should vote before the convention. Their incredible ignorance and desperation is astounding to behold.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)I encourage you to use paragraphs to increase the likelihood that more DUers will wade through your verbiage.
(Welcome to DU, and to my IL.)
BernersFaceFacts
(2 posts)Sure thing, I'll be certain to use paragraphs going forward. However, punctuation and format aside, nothing written in my original post is inaccurate. And yes, if DU members are open to contrary and lively discussions, they most certainly will "wade through" the verbiage to comprehend the gist of my post. BTW, thanks for the warm welcome! Ciao.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)whose responses I cannot see:
Ma☭le Cocaine ??@historyinflicks
@charles_kinbote @HillaryClinton "Bernie is perfect." - Hillary Clinton
11:54 AM - 30 Mar 2016
97 97 Retweets
350 350 likes
This is one of myriad twitter responses to Hi11ary's adjuration that voters shouldn't have to wait for "the perfect."
It is to laugh.
Go, BERNIE!!!!
#NotMeUs
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... super delegates to switch to Sanders, but was there anything wrong with the conversation itself? It just sounds like two people disagreeing in a more or less civil manner. What was the point of your subject line?
chervilant
(8,267 posts)you are required to use the exact headline of the article you link. That is what I did.
Also, I have noticed that Hi11ary's supporters are using "Fighting for Us" posters, whereas Bernie's supporters are using "A Future to Believe In" posters. hmm... I think Bernie's posters are far more positive and hopeful. I'm tired of "fighting" for anything. We HAVE to have each others' backs, and Bernie is the incredible human being who can--and should--lead our peaceful, grassroots revolution.
Time for change. Time for Bernie.
Go BERNIE!!!
#NotMeUs
RandySF
(58,511 posts)Do Sanders supporters have any integrity?