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Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:30 AM

Five Reasons the MI6 Story is a Lie

The Sunday Times has a story claiming that Snowden’s revelations have caused danger to MI6 and disrupted their operations. Here are five reasons it is a lie.

1) The alleged Downing Street source is quoted directly in italics. Yet the schoolboy mistake is made of confusing officers and agents. MI6 is staffed by officers. Their informants are agents. In real life, James Bond would not be a secret agent. He would be an MI6 officer. Those whose knowledge comes from fiction frequently confuse the two. Nobody really working with the intelligence services would do so, as the Sunday Times source does. The story is a lie.

2) The argument that MI6 officers are at danger of being killed by the Russians or Chinese is a nonsense. No MI6 officer has been killed by the Russians or Chinese for 50 years. The worst that could happen is they would be sent home. Agents’ – generally local people, as opposed to MI6 officers – identities would not be revealed in the Snowden documents. Rule No.1 in both the CIA and MI6 is that agents’ identities are never, ever written down, neither their names nor a description that would allow them to be identified. I once got very, very severely carpeted for adding an agents’ name to my copy of an intelligence report in handwriting, suggesting he was a useless gossip and MI6 should not be wasting their money on bribing him. And that was in post communist Poland, not a high risk situation.

3) MI6 officers work under diplomatic cover 99% of the time. Their alias is as members of the British Embassy, or other diplomatic status mission. A portion are declared to the host country. The truth is that Embassies of different powers very quickly identify who are the spies in other missions. MI6 have huge dossiers on the members of the Russian security services – I have seen and handled them. The Russians have the same. In past mass expulsions, the British government has expelled 20 or 30 spies from the Russian Embassy in London. The Russians retaliated by expelling the same number of British diplomats from Moscow, all of whom were not spies! As a third of our “diplomats” in Russia are spies, this was not coincidence. This was deliberate to send the message that they knew precisely who the spies were, and they did not fear them.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/06/five-reasons-the-mi6-story-is-a-lie/

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply Five Reasons the MI6 Story is a Lie (Original post)
bemildred Jun 2015 OP
MADem Jun 2015 #1
bemildred Jun 2015 #2
MADem Jun 2015 #3
bemildred Jun 2015 #5
MADem Jun 2015 #6
bemildred Jun 2015 #8
MADem Jun 2015 #10
bemildred Jun 2015 #4
MADem Jun 2015 #9
bemildred Jun 2015 #11
MADem Jun 2015 #12
bemildred Jun 2015 #13
MADem Jun 2015 #16
bemildred Jun 2015 #15
MADem Jun 2015 #18
bemildred Jun 2015 #19
MADem Jun 2015 #20
bemildred Jun 2015 #21
Unknown Beatle Jun 2015 #14
MADem Jun 2015 #17
BeyondGeography Jun 2015 #7
Cryptoad Jun 2015 #23
marble falls Jun 2015 #24
MrMickeysMom Jun 2015 #22
dotymed Jun 2015 #25
Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #29
leveymg Jun 2015 #26
SheilaT Jun 2015 #27
Jesus Malverde Jun 2015 #28
Jefferson23 Jun 2015 #30
bemildred Jun 2015 #31

Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:51 AM

1. BBC and GUARDIAN are covering it--doesn't sound like they think it's false.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/14/russia-and-china-broke-into-snowden-files-to-identify-british-and-us-spies


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33125068

Here's the TIMES article--copied to another site (they are behind a paywall): http://cryptome.org/2015/06/ru-cn-snowden-1m-docs.htm
RUSSIA and China have cracked the top-secret cache of files stolen by the fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden, forcing MI6 to pull agents out of live operations in hostile countries, according to senior officials in Downing Street, the Home Office and the security services.

Western intelligence agencies say they have been forced into the rescue operations after Moscow gained access to more than 1m classified files held by the former American security contractor, who fled to seek protection from Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, after mounting one of the largest leaks in US history.
.....

It is not clear whether Russia and China stole Snowden’s data, or whether he voluntarily handed over his secret documents in order to remain at liberty in Hong Kong and Moscow.


This blogger doesn't have the bubble, I don't think.

I think the agents they need to extract aren't MI6....they're of the "double" type, or simple "informants." Or something else, operating outside the normal bounds. They are people that the MI6 agents were RUNNING. "Assets," if you will. And now, those people and their families are running--away from Russia and China.

It's nice this guy thinks everyone operates under the Marquess of Queensberry rules, but that's just not real life.

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:55 AM

2. Yeah, I really trust them a lot.

Not.

I think the real problem is the employees become more blackmailable when the background check and personnel file info is out there too, but Murray thinks it's about the new legislation. He might be right, he is probably better informed than I am.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:08 AM

3. The articles seem to indicate they're moving people, and I don't get the sense they have

diplomatic immunity.


We'll find out one of these days if the people getting moved are Russian and Chinese. I don't think they'll keep that under wraps forever.

I mean, it's not like that hasn't happened before, and in reverse as well...Kim Philby died in Russia because he was one of those guys who had to be snatched up from UK and "rescued" after he was burned.

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Response to MADem (Reply #3)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:12 AM

5. They are just repeating what they were told. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:28 AM

6. It doesn't make sense that they'd be panicking about people with diplomatic immunity.

It DOES make sense if they're moving agents they were running.

I can wait--I have no choice, really! Time will tell, but I suspect I'm correct--we're not talking Embassy or Consular Staff....we're talking local national assets.

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:30 AM

8. First it has to be true. Not a lie. Then we can worry about making sense.

Right now I think it's a lie.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:37 AM

10. Funny, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, initially, but when he

disappeared into the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong, prior to making that Moscow dash, I figured he was bought and paid for.

He might have been bought and paid for from as far back as when he was living in Japan and vacationing in HK. That's when he may have been turned. Who knows?

Well, someone does--and his name might be Vladimir!

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:09 AM

4. And what if that data is being sold to identity thieves?

Aren't all those employees exposed to identity theft now?

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Response to bemildred (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:33 AM

9. That would depend if personnel files were included in the trove. Unlikely.

I don't think that's the kind of shit Snowden downloaded. I think he took source and method material, of a classified nature. Why would he be poking around in UK personnel files? That just doesn't make sense. Besides, that stuff would be the equivalent of FOUO and handled out of a personnel/disbursing office in London. Direct deposit is a dream.

I don't think this is about UK staffers.

We'll find out eventually.

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Response to MADem (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:40 AM

11. I'm talking about the US files there, the OPM and security clearance databases.

For the moment I'm assuming the UK story is bullshit.

Otherwise we'd have to know what Snowden stole to talk about identity theft, and AFAIK we don't, and the only version his stuff out there is the infobomb he distributed, and I will need proof to show any such hack has been done, and better yet something about methodology. You don't just put a bigger computer to work on strong encryption, you need massive parallelism or a quantum computer and even then ...

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Response to bemildred (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:50 AM

12. Can't see why he'd be accessing personnel files as a contractor--that would set off

alarms, I should think. He'd be going off site to a centralized finance facility to get that material, I imagine. That's WAY out of his wheelhouse.

USG could easily hand out new SSANs like candy. and trash the old, if needs must--that would be a blip and nothing more.

Identity theft is the least of their worries--I think they had a network of assets blown. That's a tougher situation.

I wonder what Snowden's thinking, right about now. If they've cracked his goodies, he's got no bargaining chips. And if they've cracked his goodies, they've had copies of his stuff since Hong Kong. Rome wasn't built in a day, after all.

He's screwed.

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:54 AM

13. I doubt Snowden accessed the OPM and security databases, that was recent, they say the Chinese.

That has nothing to do with Snowden.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:04 AM

16. I agree--I don't think Snowden downloaded personnel records, at least not payroll material.

He stole material from HI, we know that. He may have duplicated material from Japan, as well--we really don't know if this was truly a spur of the moment thing, or if he'd been on the Russian payroll for awhile, had downloaded material from Japan, and then after he switched jobs and got caught up in that security clearance problem where his forged education credentials would have been eventually revealed, knew that his time was running out, so he did a grab-and-go.

We just don't know.

Thing is, maybe the Russians didn't want to tip us (or the UK) off. Maybe they didn't tip us off. Maybe, just maybe, we've got someone on the inside who is overseeing the cracking of that material--and they're the ones who tipped us off. That's a bit more of a stretch, but one never knows, do one?


It's starting to look like that is a possibility, though.

In any event, the reset button has been pressed. It's interesting times ahead....

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:00 AM

15. Ex-NSA official: Cybersecurity breach gave China intelligence ‘crown jewels’

A former NSA official said that the latest data breaches on the Office of Personnel Management gave Chinese hackers the “crown jewels” of American intelligence.

Last week federal officials announced that Chinese hackers had gained access to over 4 million personal records for federal employees in December. A similar hack, exposing federal employees’ security background checks, was disclosed by the Obama administration on Friday.

“This is crown jewels material… a gold mine for foreign intelligence service,” said Joel Brenner, a former NSA senior counsel, Politico reported Friday.

The hackers are believed to have accessed data from Standard Form-86 documents, which include background details for federal employees like financial trouble, past convictions, drug use and close relationships with citizens of other countries.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jun/13/ex-nsa-official-cybersecurity-breach-gave-china-in/

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Response to bemildred (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:26 AM

18. I dislike the WATIMES as a source (Rev Moon) but if the Chinese got the SF-86s, they got a lot of

information on people.

Of course, nowadays, with facebook, a lot of people put that shit out there anyway.

It's everyplace you've lived in the last decade, a full report on any crimes you've committed, jobs you've held--they're rather intrusive, but so's facebook! Probably the most useful material is the "foreign friends" list.

They'd do well to give all their diplomats fake identities before they send them off! Force the Chinese and Russians to have to resort to biometrics to figure out who's who in the zoo....

I have heard that US intends to transition to more biometric banking--perhaps the roll-out for that will be accelerated as a result of this.

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Response to MADem (Reply #18)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:31 AM

19. Me too, but in this case they have lots of company.

Yes, I have filled out a couple of those forms over the years, I know what's in them. Not your bank & credit account numbers, but some very handy stuff for password cracking and security question hacking.

I am skeptical that they know who did it, I think the "Chinese" thing is a guess.

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Response to bemildred (Reply #19)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:36 AM

20. I think they know. They may not be telling us, but I'll bet they've figured it out.

If not--hell, we may as well turn off our computers and get out the Trivial Pursuit board games!!!

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Response to MADem (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:39 AM

21. Well, that's my point. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #1)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:00 AM

14. Hmm...Let's see.

RUSSIA and China have cracked the top-secret cache of files stolen by the fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden...

But...
It is not clear whether Russia and China stole Snowden’s data, or whether he voluntarily handed over his secret documents in order to remain at liberty in Hong Kong and Moscow.


If Snowden voluntarily handed them over then they wouldn't have to be cracked but the article claims that the top-secret cache of files were cracked. On the other hand, it is not clear whether Russia and China stole Snowden’s data so it's just speculation. So, how can they claim to have cracked the top-secret cache of files if they don't know how they got them.

But the argument is going to be that they were stolen so that's the only way they were cracked, if that's the case, then they weren't handed over by Snowden. If they weren't handed over by Snowden why did they say it's unclear how they got them?

Lies and distortion is how this is presented.

A second point, The Sunday Times is the first to come out with this revelation, if you can call it that. The rest of the British press has followed suit. The Sunday Times is owned by none other than Rupert Murdoch. Enough said.

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Response to Unknown Beatle (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:19 AM

17. No-no-no!!!

If you recall, Snowden had a ton of stuff, but it was all safe because it was "encrypted." Remember? Even if a "bad guy" copied the stuff, they couldn't do anything with it. Ostensibly....

Greenwald's partner schlepped through London with copies of a bunch of encrypted stuff--he didn't have the key.

Now, if we assume this story is "correct," then they've been digging around trying to crack their copies of the stuff and only recently have been successful.

OR...Snowden flat out gave them the key, or they found a way to steal it from him.

Rupert Murdoch retired. He's handed the game off to his kids. Ever since the bugging scandal, and the fact that his wife a) Was screwing Tony Blair, and b) Dumped him, he hasn't been on the game.

He's an elderly man--he's running out of gas.

Also, TIMES is just the vehicle for the story. The SOURCE of the story is the British government. I'm quite confident that BBC isn't reporting based solely on TIMES of London's word. Nor is GUARDIAN. They picked up the phone and made a few calls, make no mistake.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:28 AM

7. Five things we know to be true

Last edited Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:03 AM - Edit history (1)

1. Snowden pilfered 1.77 million documents, and had no idea what many of them revealed.

2. 58,000 of those documents related to UK intelligence.

3. Richard Clarke, before this latest development, says Snowden should go to prison for a very long time for compromising US national security. Now some very powerful people in the UK apparently feel the same way.

4. Putin doesn't give you something for nothing.

5. It really does suck to be Snowden.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:33 AM

23. I dont call him "Comrade Snowden" for nuttin! ,,,,,,

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #7)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:34 AM

24. Nice job of condensing. Specially point 5.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 06:46 AM

22. Indeed… Why would you believe the liars now???

Ole uncle Rupert is at it again…
The paper publishing the story is owned by Rupert Murdoch. It is sourced to the people who brought you the dossier on Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction, every single “fact” in which proved to be a fabrication. Why would you believe the liars now?

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:40 AM

25. The "real story"

is. to me, that Edward Snowden showed the America people that their lives are monitored by and controlled by, Big Brother. Oh and Big Brother was furious, yet the American people were mostly unfazed. Wow.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:55 AM

29. Nailed it.



JM

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:40 AM

26. I'll give you a sixth: all of the NSA information was old, and dated back to the Bush era.

It could be that there was more recent stuff in there that pertains to other agencies that hasn't been publicly released (or I haven't seen it), but all the NSA docs were dated 2009 or earlier.

Intelligence services very rarely keep officers in place in vulnerable places for more than a few years before rotating them out.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:53 AM

27. Meanwhile, as I recall, when the Bush administration outed Valerie Plame

 

because they couldn't stand it that her husband, Joseph Plame, pointed out publicly that they were lying about certain things, people did die.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:54 AM

28. So Obvious.

Thanks for the post.

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 01:53 PM

30. Recommend. n/t

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Response to bemildred (Original post)

Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:59 PM

31. Cyber Attack On This Site to Crash MI6 Post

The site is under a strong denial of service attack from a bot trying to crash it by overloading with millions of pings from multiple locations. I presume the objective is to take down the revelation of the fake MI6 Snowden story, which had been read by tens of thousands already and is now really taking off.

While the copyright in that article remains mine, I grant permission for it freely to be reproduced by anybody, anywhere. I shall be grateful for multiple copies to be posted around the web so it can’t be taken down.

Some extremely brilliant people have put an awful lot of time and a bit of money on the defences of this blog, making it very hard to crash even by governments, through a cloud hosting system. (OK, you got me, I don’t understand how they do it). With any luck we won’t go down, but backups on that article very welcome.

This article will be deleted in an hour or so to put the MI6 lies back at top of the blog.


https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/06/cyber-attack-on-this-site-to-crash-mi6-post/

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